How to not pull too long and where is the power zone

[Horton]

A) I hear talk of working "white water to white water" all the time. I do not get it. In my mind I should making speed into the first wake and be transitioning from my pulling edge at the centerline.

 

B ) skiers I ski with are habitually on their pulling edge past the second white water. The solution should be to make more speed early I guess (??) but that is easy say and hard to do. Any other tips for skiers who seem to always pull too long?

[The_MS]

It’s all visual. If your at 35, your brain is trying to see what it saw at 32 but it ain’t there and if it is, you have pulled to long and won’t backside in good position to get to next ball. Train your vision and reaction. We can all ski, it’s just how and when we react to what we see in front of us.

[ski6jones]

I like to think about this in terms of angle rather than speed. If you build enough angle into centerline then you can have good outbound direction. If you never build the angle and get the direction then there is little choice but to pull long.

[mikegile]

Pull all the way to the ball, just change edges at the wake.

[gregy]

So what do you different as the line gets shorter? I'm learning 32 and I often pull way past the wakes going to 1 ball. 22 and 28 I can take a pretty leisurely turn in but 32 seems like it better if I load sooner.

[Ilivetoski]

Zane Nicholason told me that you should be pulling until the middle of 2nd whitewash through 38

[ForrestGump]

If you have to think about it, you are pulling too long. Guaranteed.

[Chef23]

I think it varies greatly depending on your level. At 32 off and shorter I think the focus is definitely on creating more speed earlier.

 

For beginning course skiers I think you need to get them thinking pulling through the whitewater after the second wake. Ideally you would like them to generate more speed earlier and get off the pull around the second wake but usually they don't have the fundamentals to do that.

[Horton]

@Chef23 Lower level skiers pull long because they do not know how to make speed. I think that is a different thread. Let's talk 28 - 32 and shorter.

[Chef23]

@Horton I agree completely.

[Drago]

I think it is directly related with ski set up and gate philosophy.

[Zman]

@MS Can you elaborate?

[Than_Bogan]

Personally I think almost everyone who pulls "too long" is doing so because they have to: They don't have enough speed to get there. I don't think I've ever coached someone to stop their pull. Instead, I focus on finishing the turn with better angle and/or leveraging efficiently right away and/or moving over the ski to accelerate it into the wakes. Once someone is building sufficient speed, they stop pulling long without having to be told.

[Booze]

I hear you Hortonism, I struggle with the same questions/issues.

I like what @Mike Gile said....but doing that in a consistent, proper manner is SO hard to do at shortline (for me anyway).

Nate told me one time, he works on peaking lean or line tension at centerline and tries to taper the intensity off symmetrically into and out of centerline.

[Drago]

@Live2ski “middle of the 2nd whitewash”. Seriously? All speeds, all boats, head wind, tail wind....

[The_MS]

@Zman we spend lots of time dialing in a line length and then move to the next shorter line. You get used to seeing what is in front of you and time things based on that. Your brain automatically will try to look for that comfort turn and you will pull long to see it.

Angle is set upon hook up with the handle. If you don’t have it at that point you will pull as hard as you can to make it over to the next ball. You can’t set that angle unless the ski is on the finish of the turn. It starts with getting on the correct path out of 1 ball. Excess speed is your enemy. A constant controlled speed is easier to achieve if not pulling long and catching up.

[Horton]

@Drago one can only hope that is a breakdown of terminology.

[jimbrake]

@drago - re: gate philosophy, as a LFF I start having gate difficulties at 35 (probably have them at 32, too, but I get away with them), where if i try to set too much angle too soon, it just results in too much load and resulting downcourse path and too much speed into one ball. I can "ease into" the gate and get a better path and speed to one, but then not carry enough speed through that turn. What is your approach to the gate as a lefty?

[Drago]

@jimbrake Not sure i can handle the pressure of a direct question, and hopefully I communicate this properly and my memory works as its been quite a while since i skied well, but, from my experience:

1. Try to have the confidence that you are skiing the pass instead of thinking about 1 ball.If you are trying to get around 1, you often end up pulling too long= hips all the way around 1-ball, slack hit, long pull to 2, hail-Mary @ 2 if you get there

2. I try to run my hip over the right-hand gate buoy as the ski changes edges. Helps keep the rope tight on the upswing

3. I think the gate should be very similar to the 2-ball turn, which brings me to set-up. Personally, I go with as short a fin as possible which allows for weight on the front foot and hips over your ankle. As Adam(s) say, the setup needs to be for your shortest pass, and @ 35, 38 and beyond, the pull needs to be later because the swing can’t happen up next to the boat

4. Concentrate on body position/posture, not intensity

have you tried a one-handed gate?

[TravisNW]

It’s like a lot of things, intuitively what seems right or effective isn’t actually productive and we don’t really see this until it’s put to the test at the hardest degree. When we begin to ski we are rewarded by committing to the lean and carrying the speed and angle through the wakes and out to the buoy. This process continues to develop and become more and more effective as a skier progresses through the line lengths to 35. But then comes 38 and beyond where this archetype no longer works. Uh oh... fortunately years of outstanding athletes and collective minds have defined essential elements of skiing that run short line (sub course width) line lengths. They are tried and true and consistently executed by today’s elite. The elements are not intuitively developed during the common learning process and often defy logic to short sited 35’ers who feel they won’t make it to the buoy width unless they commit and get a really long pull. The transition near centerline ski path creates the ski path and arc space to keep skiing and rounding buoys even though the actual loading duration is shorter.

[MillerTime38]

Someone once told me “pulling is what you do in a warm shower, leaning is what you do behind the boat” RIP Whitey