Fred Winter runs 1.5 @ 43 off while competing in the Bordeaux slalom cup!

[ballsohard]

Big score of 1.5 @ 43 for @FWinter

[cruznski]

Is there video to come? Was there a spectacular wipe out at 2? Congratulations @FWinter

[ballsohard]

@cruznski I haven't seen the video yet, not sure how it occurred.

[dvskier]

Freddie has a great future ahead of him. He's not afraid to take calculated risks and he's strong as a bull.

[theboardingschool]

He actually ran 1. Still pretty damn good.

 

But yes @dvskier you’re right. The kid is super passionate!

[Horton]

@theboardingschool it's confusing because I think there were two different sanctions. In the pro portion his best was one but in the other portion he did run 1.5.

 

If I actually misunderstand somebody who correct me :-)

 

[Deanoski]

The D3 nrg r1 is working well fir Freddy

[skialex]

A friend who was there told me that he was skiing smoother and better than ever!

[Stevie Boy]

Great to see Freddie back in the groove, the sport needs personalties and skiers that are exciting to watch, Freddie certainly does not leave anything on the dock, Congrats

[theboardingschool]

You’re right. I hadn’t talked to him after that. Pretty solid.

[Steven_Haines]

Great job Freddie, take Nate’s record away from him!

[Jaypro]

Freddie is a beast, getting his mojo on...it’s that Vermont beer I sent him...

[Andre]

@Jaypro

If it was the VT beer,wouldn't you be skiing into 43 off too? :)

[Jaypro]

@Andre its not JUST the beer, if it was, then yes I would be.....

[Horton]

hmmm. Shocking how good everybody skis when they leave Florida and go to Europe.

[Stevie Boy]

@Horton would you like to expand on your comment, it seems you are having trouble accepting the results, it,s almost like there maybe a suggestion of unfair play.

[mfjaegersr]

Might be interesting to have some data to support or dispute the alleged assertion by @Horton. Particularly- is it really EVERYBODY skis better outta FL, or perhaps do Europeans ski better when they leave FL (and go, you know...Home...to Europe)?

[DanE]

I don't see it, Sacha and Pigozzi did what they always do.

Freddie is on fire, maybe settled in on his relatively new ski?

[Intheday]

Wouldn't you ski better if you didn't have to worry about gators and all sort of other biting and stinging animals that like water??

[theboardingschool]

@Horton come and spend some time at TBS, we’ll get you there!

[jimski]

@theboardingschool it’s coming together for me

[Horton]

If you compare the "Bordeaux Slalom Cup ProAm" results to the world standings (May 1, 2018 to April 30, 2019) See here AND you do not include the scores from 18ESP001 2018-07-01 BOTASKI PROAM you will find the following

 

Fred's best scores were 1 & 1.5 balls better he had on the current list. 4 balls better then his best in the US on the same list. More interesting his scores were 3 balls better than he has done in this calendar year. He has not been to 2 ball at 43 since he broke his ankle.

 

Sacha ran 5 @ 41 which is 1.5 balls under his best on the current list. That does not seem crazy until you look at his scores in the US vs his scores in Europe. His best score in the US (on the current list) is 3.5 at 41.

 

Pigizzi is clearly capable 4 or more at 41 but what are the odds that he runs 4 three times in a row? That equals his best score in the US. He did it twice in the US last year.

 

I have never heard of Baroni before but ran 3 at 41. That is one ball over his best on the list. I think that is his all time PB by a ball.

 

Thomas Poole ran 2 @ 41. That is one ball more than on the list and looks like a 1 ball PB.

 

Before somebody goes off crazy - I am 100% not criticizing the skiers. The skiers skied the best they could and "mano a mano" it is all legit. I just find the scores out of some sites in Europe to be extraordinary.

 

One more thing. I am not saying US skiing is better. This is not some jingoistic BS. There is no question that most of the best skiers get most of their scores in Florida. So how is it that when they go to France and Spain they SUDDENLY get a ball or 3 more? Tell me how!

 

 

 

*extraordinary:: going beyond what is usual, regular, or customary

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/extraordinary

 

 

 

 

 

[dvskier]

@Horton it's time for your inaugural European waterski site audit tour. We need answers to these questions. Only the Inter Galactic leader can fulfill.

[DaveD]

@dvskier They might not like @horton over there anymore.

[Horton]

@dvskier unfortunately I'm on my way to being banned from a number of European countries.

 

Seriously I hope I'm wrong about all this stuff. I talked to one pro skier yesterday who had skied at the Bordeaux site a few years ago and said it was just amazing. It's just hard to overlook statistically unlikely scores coming out of some countries in Europe. If there is an answer that is not long ropes or narrow buoys or weaving boats we would all be better for it.

 

[Killer]

Old world European water has a je ne c'est quoi to it

 

& The metric system of course is better

 

 

[dvskier]

Having watched Freddie ski in several tournaments the past couple of years I believe the answer is he is peaking. I’m sure the tech controllers in Europe are aware of the speculation and are thoroughly checking course placement and end course video. Coincidence or not it’s pretty good skiing and I hope Freddie continues his pursuit of excellence.

[MISkier]

@Horton, I say go over there just to run your 39.

[Stevie Boy]

So lets get down to the nitty gritty.

 

1. The course is Homolgated

2. Lines should be checked and signed off as legit

3. Competitors Handles checked within tolerance

4. End of course cameras for any sub-standard / Dodgy Driving.

 

Possibilties for us to consider.

 

1. All Officials are on the Take

2. Dodgy software giving correct boat times when the times are slow.

3. Competitors have slip knots on their handles or are swapping them for longer ones

4. A repeat of the 2005 Malibu Open, Oops sorry that wasn,t in Europe, it was the USA

 

 

@Horton I really do not know where you are coming from, I don't get it at all, can you not accept that for various reasons, skiers peak at different times, nobody can maintain continous peak performance, perhaps ski design, performs better in the water makeup at these sites.

Who Knows but lets Celebrate the Achievments of these skiers, they have worked hard for it.

 

 

 

 

[Drago]

Coming back from an injury to 100% takes quite a while. The rest of them are obviously cheating.

(I think 10.25 is way easier than -41)

[The_MS]

I think I may start up a BOS Euro division.

[mfjaegersr]

@Horton that’s good data; thank you. Can you offer up similar info for US Skiers and their performances in Europe? Better or worse than FL/US?

[gjohnson]

Or you could come to Minnesota and not ski through 38. With a short summer and plenty of wind, we've got a two week window to set a good score. That's why I think ranking lists are a bit useless. Every site skis different. No score is the same. It should be about who skis best that day, period.

[jercrane]

Ooooh is this an opportunity to bring the warm water vs cold water debate back to the table? :D

[Sivota]

http://www.iwwfed-ea.org/competition.php?cc=T-19FRA028&page=all_s5_slalom_results

Does the actual result have any impact on the debate?

[andjules]

@Horton I appreciate the data analysis, it is helpful.

That said, I noticed you left out (or as per world rankings, left in) the (european) San Gervasio results. I presume that's because — roughly speaking — people skied less exceptionally (although Descuns ran 5@-41 twice; and Freddie ran into -43 the previous year), but if-and-when we cherry-pick data, we should probably state why.

 

And all of us should keep in mind what @Horton mentioned earlier in the thread, which is that Bordeaux's round 4 (Freddie's 1.5@-43, Descuns 5@-41, Baroni's 3@-41, Poole's 2@-41) was allegedly not-sanctioned (C class?).

[Horton]

@andjules I did not intentionally exclude San Gervasio. I'm not at my desk but I don't think it was at the data set I was looking at. Unfortunately there are multiple datasets and it is confusing. I do not have any issues with the San Gervasio scores.

[Horton]

@Sivota darn it I spent 45 minutes looking for that this morning. No it doesn't really impact what I'm stating but I wish I'd had that reference when I made my post above. I think the data set you have above just excludes the finals? I don't know.

[paul413ski]

Debate is healthy conjecture is not well done @FWinter

[Sivota]

@horton the instagram photos on BoS and elsewhere show Pigozzi on top of the podium and FW in second.

[Horton]

@Sivota like I said the data sets are confusing. Yes pigozzi won the final round

[APB]

some sites have great water, all stars align.... it happens. am i surprised scores are higher in europe?... not at all. we must have faith in officials, their organizations, etc. i dont understand discrediting the euros every event, nor the hate.

 

good job freddy!!!

[addkerr]

@Horton I cant actually believe we are back to having a go at Euro scores again. I seriously hope you are doing this to just try and stir more debate and get more active users. It certainly works if so.

 

The more I contemplate this forum the more I think it is unacceptable to have the owner/ moderator of thr forum discussing and throwing accusations around like this. I feel like we have a dictator. There is nothing wrong with just posting new news articles and reviews. I dont think you need to spark controversy.

 

As for banning Horton from Euro sites. I actually invite you to mine. Come ski great and then I will give you the course survey as proof. ;)

[Horton]

@addkerr 100% not a ploy to drive traffic. Creating false controversy is definitely not my preference.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again - There are extraordinary scores coming out of a few ski sites. If one person skis way above normal that is awesome but when there is a cluster of unusual scores I cannot understand why scrutiny is unwelcome.

[Deanoski]

Long and narrow

[ozski]

Which European country was Dr Jim from again?

[MillerTime38]

I think the explanation is pretty simple, unless someone has boat path video to prove me wrong, there is probably some extra deviation from the center line on the boat path. It’s no different than some of the PB factories here in the US.

 

How many of the 5 (or 4 can’t remember) skiers that ran -41 last year at tourney in Europe have run it since?

[ballsohard]

I want to ski at a PB factory

[ballsohard]

Maybe these guys just mastered skiing using the "coordinates" system ???

[Stevie Boy]

@MillerTime38 , So if a skier, skis in Europe and scores a New World Record, it,s very likely to be dodgy, because it wasn,t achieved in the USA, we are all aware of the PB,s obtained when people go to various sites in the USA and Europe whilst taking a vacation, but the tolerances for Drivers at Tournaments is pretty tight, with end of course cameras, when it comes to tournaments, drivers want to show that they are more than capable, would you risk driving a skiers PB or World Record only to have the officials take it away.

No Sir ! If the boat is within tolerance it counts, End Of !