GOODE REVOLUTION...CG Fin vs WF

[Ed_Johnson]

A friend of mine is switching from an 18 EVO to the Revolution and wants me to set it up with the CG and/or the Whisper Fin. I have both, and would like some feedback from others who have skied the Rev. with either, and what their opinions are. Thanks in advance.

 

 

[Horton]

It's kind of like choosing between Star Wars universe and Star Trek universe.

 

I would suggest your friend change skis with the stock fin and get settled in before moving to an aftermarket fin

[Ed_Johnson]

@Horton...Agree..I have set up 4 skis now with both fins and have always set them up first with the stock fin to the best that it can be, then switched to those numbers. 2 D3's and 2 Vapors. Looking for feedback, performance wise, about the Revolution, since I am not familiar with it.

 

 

[mbabiash]

@Ed_Johnson

On finwhispering.com

Elizabeth montavon who gets into 38 off comments in the fin and I believe she’s on the revolution. She was blown away. She might have some numbers for you.

[Ed_Johnson]

@mbabiash ...Surprised to see Chad Scott and Chet Raley using the WF on the Revolution. Would like to know their numbers.

 

Since I will be setting it up first with the stock fin to find the sweet spot, does anybody have good numbers for the stock fin. Would like to know Greg Badal's numbers.

 

 

[Zman]

Anyone have trouble securing the CG fin in a Goode fin block?

I found the CG fin to about 7 to 8 thousands thinner than the Goode fin, making it hard to secure in the single piece Goode fin block.

[dave2ball]

@Zman it won’t work in a good. The fin is too thin. Many others have had that issue. Just didn’t post about it.

 

[Zman]

Thanks @dave2ball

[Booze]

Hmm, I ran it a few times in my Revo....no issues

 

[Alberto Soares]

To mount a CG fin on a Goode you have to take out the settings screws in order to tight the screws that hold the fin. It is a pain to set without them but it is the only way I could make it.

[BraceMaker]

@Alberto Soares just lay a small shim stock between the fin and the box. Call it how ever many thousandth thick they stayed above. Or tighten the box down on a tap and go a few turns in and out to remove some meat from the threads so the diametrical width of the threaded holes are smaller.

[JohnN]

I found the same issue, used a layer of metal tape for ducts to shim the fin and then you can still use the set screws. Figured it out after struggling and finally re-measuring the fin, only to find it a lot longer than I had set it...

[Ed_Johnson]

Anybody want to chime in on any Performance advantages with either the CG or WF. Basically, what they thought the differences were from stock. Also any corresponding changes in Binding location associated with either the CG or WF...Thanks

 

 

[The_MS]

So how long before @goodeski has a fin for the ski from the factory?

[Andre]

@MS

If any ski builder is not working on their own new fin design they're dumb.

Both new fins seems to be better then traditionnal fins wich were basically the same pattern for the last,what,25-30 years almost...

Honestly,the price is keeping me from buying one.

[BraceMaker]

@Andre - that's a conundrum.

 

Any manufacturer not working on this new tech is dumb, also I'm not willing to pay the price for that new tech...

 

I'm of the opinion that any ski school with a proshop should have both of these things in stock for that easy sale. Not seeing a lot of used ones come up for sale yet either.

 

 

 

[Golson]

Im on the Revolution and run long and shallow settings on the standard fin with a mini ventral. Tested the Whisper Fin and it was great side to side, gives a huge amount of space, but I wasnt a fan of it when I wasn't perfect in the turns. Im more consistent on the standard fin, but both work well with the ski. The CG fin didnt fit in my Goode fin box either so I gave it to a ski partner to try..

[Andre]

@BraceMaker

Willing to pay. Just not 300$.

[Horton]

@Andre these new fin shapes are interesting but you have to realize the ski companies have gone down all of these paths before. The two fins that are the current rage are unique but ski companies time is better spent refining shape rocker flex bevels etc. The current shape is the gold standard because it works and because with everything else that has been tried skiers gravitate back to that standard.

[Booze]

+1 on what Hortonism just said

 

[Wish]

@Horton could not disagree more. Never seen a fin like these. The problem is the ski companies spend time making skis work with a 30yr old designed fin. It's like building the best formula one car but being forced to use 30yr old tire and rim design. Boot design moved way forward when hard shells hit the market. It's now basically standard and a few companies are trying or have tried building and selling them. These fins are game changers. Not a gimmick or fad. Prediction is ski companies will have to offer something that's not 30yrs old (see rubber boots) in order to satisfy customers. Or sell skis without fins for a tad less.

[Horton]

meh.

[Drago]

@wish the fins are very similar to others that came our way in the past (Schnitz, Mapple, Connelly cutback, etc). I do think they are changers for some, but a WR was just set on an ”antique” fin. The current men’s WR is on an old fin, .....

[chris55]

Wait and see.... I will not be surprise to see WR going down with one of them soon. And I agree with @Wish companies could start selling their ski without fin and let the customer choose wich one they want, why not ?

[Than_Bogan]

@Horton @Wish Well this is the most interesting part for us "neutral observers," isn't it? Are we, as some of us currently guess, at the "beginning of the end" for the traditional fin shape? Or is this just yet another time that some funky looking fin is all the rage for a while and then is never seen again while the traditional fin soldiers on!?

 

(Ok, I'm not quite a neutral observer, but I'm a lot more interested in science and technology than I am in particular brands, so I don't feel completely silly to describe myself that way.)

[paul413ski]

Whisper fin game changer :)

[Bruce_Butterfield]

@Wish go dig through the archives and you will find unique fin shapes on:

Kidder redline 1984

Connelly concept circa 1987

EP stilleto circa early 1990’s

 

Then you had the AMF fin the worked really well in the early 2000’s on many skis and Goode even offered several shapes.

Then schnitz’s slot fin and several other boutique shapes.

 

The point is that “new” fins have been around for more than 30 years. The CG and WF are much more evolution than revolution.

[Than_Bogan]

@Bruce_Butterfield There is a possible future in which I will disagree with that assessment :). Various exotic fin shapes have been tried for many years, but they have all disappeared (or at least been relegated to a tiny group of diehards). The traditional fin just keeps coming back. IF the WF or CG fins end up heralding an era in which the traditional fin goes away and never comes back, then I will label them as a revolution.

[Ed_Johnson]

As far as I am concerned, the traditional fin died in 1999. That was when I put my first Schnitz Slot Fin on a Goode and set many PB's, with many Goode's to follow. About 10 years later I had a Sans Rival with a Carbon Fin with a Ventral. Bought some of those Carbon Fins to use on every ski right up to the time the CG Fin came out. Been going back and forth between the CG and WF ever since. Both totally blow away the stock fin. They are like two different IPA's that you just Love to drink and can't decide which is best !!!

 

 

[Wish]

Bruce. Yes yes others fin designs have been tried...said that I have not seen ones like the current 2 before. Also said that it was just my prediction. Calling them a game changer may be too soon but when did the hardshell boot become a game changer.? Who predicted that? Wonder at the time of those other fins, how many pros jumped on them and stayed on them. Will be interesting to see if more pros jump on them by next season and if the current pros stay on them. Still surprised that there seems to be only one company that is designing/refining both ski and fin at the same time. Just seems logical to do so. What race team in formula one ignores any part of the cars design?

[UCFskier]

@Horton totally agree with you. these shapes have been done before (to some variation). kidder had the whisper fin shape in the early 90's. also seen all variations of materials used from plexi, fiberglass, to carbon fiber. hell even had a teammate put his fin in backwards and put out a hell of a pass!!

Its fun to play with all this stuff but ultimately noting is going to "fix" your skiing quite like investing in some quality coaching and time on the water

[Drago]

the hardshell boot is not a game changer either. Many still prefer a rubber boot. Most of the past men’s WRs were in rubber boots

[The_MS]

Ventral fin

[ToddL]

Traditional fins are everywhere because that is what comes on every ski by default. No one is selling their stock fins on the 2nd hand market because no one is buying them (already have them).

 

What our innovative fin-designing friends may want to consider is a licensing agreement with one or more of the big ski names to incorporate the new fin design into their standard products. Could be a win-win for both companies. It is also a huge risk for the ski company since not everyone is sold/sure the design consistently offers same or better performance.

 

People hesitate to invest $2/300 in a fin by itself, but they might not even notice a $2/300 increase in a latest model $1600+ ski which now includes the new "wiz-bang" fin as stock.

[ozski]

I thought @Horton was or is currently killing it on a new Denali which I'm pretty sure ships with a GC fin.

[Stathis Ventouris]

Anybody on the current threads subject? Any settings or feedback for trying any of the two fins with the GOODE REVOLUTION?

[S1Pitts]

I am setting up a Rev today on a CG Fin for a skier. I will post numbers when done.

[Stathis Ventouris]

@S1Pitts thanks along with the numbers please also post how did it feel/results.

[S1Pitts]

Old numbers with standard fin - 2.485 6.848 0.755 9 deg 28.750 16.750

CG Fin - 2.440 6.952 0.815 9deg 29.250 17.250

I forgot to grab the length but I think it is 64.75? Skier is a 32-working on 35- 34mph skier. Skis well but very inconsistent day to day.

Todays first try yielded much better symmetry and he looked so much more relaxed. He always was troubled by tip rise out of both turns and today it was much reduced. Carried more speed out of turns and he felt it required less effort / input from the skier. He ran effortless 32's back to back but did not want to push any more as he is nursing a lower back issue right now.

All in all a very good first try and he feels it is a big change / improvement and wants to ride it this way for a few more days.

From the boat I would say this was some of his best skiing in a long time. Too bad he is not 100% because I think he would have slayed 35.

[Booze]

I tried the WF last week and the CG today on my 67.25

The WF was good at providing space and keeping the tip down on offside. The onside was allowing too much tail slide at 35/38...perhaps that could be tuned out?

The CG, I barely measured it....threw it in, gave a bump here and a nudge there, I had no idea where it was supposed to be. Put the large wing on at about 8deg. BAM, smoked a 35 and got 4 at 38, then finished with a pair of 35's. Impressions? Had alot of space into the ball, quick offside rotation without tip grab, made it easy to finish the turn with strong position into the wakes. Onside turns were great. I tend to push the ski onside rather than the passive 'let the ski turn' approach. The CG provided good tail support keeping the ski moving and turned super fast.

The next step is try a smaller wing. Wish I had an S-wing to try.

If anyone wants numbers, I'll measure and post.

 

[BraceMaker]

@booze you can sort of make one with a vice and a drill bit - just clamp the blade between one jaw of the vice and the shank of the drill bit at 45 degrees and just push the wing over so the curve of the drill bit gives you a radius.