Enough Already !

[Stevie Boy]

I think most people on this Forum, have got the message and can make up their own minds, on how they want deal with certain issues, but me personally I have had enough of the Smith thing, but it seems some people, just want to keep stoking the fire, up until now the Forum has been a great oracle for people who want to seek information about skis,technique, injuries , reviews and many other useful pointers for water skiing.

Alas ! It appears to be heading in the direction of a cheap Tabloid and for the water ski community that would be a shame.

I will no longer give any thread or discussion about the issues regarding Mr Smith the privilige of a view, it would be nice if everybody else felt the same, so that these particular threads ended up with zero views, but I respect your choice to view what content you choose, as I would expect you respect mine.

 

[Orlando76]

Yet you write another thread?

[mshaw200]

Well the Washingont Post seems to think it’s newsworthy

[Stevie Boy]

@Orlando76 If you cant work it out,then I can,t help you.

[UWSkier]

There are really three, arguably four major newspapers in the US. The WaPo is one of those. This isn't some AM radio guy in a midsize market making noise... This paper is daily reading for some of the nation's most influential people.

 

I think everyone here is sick of hearing about it... but the fact it's in that newspaper is itself very big news... and not the good kind. At least BoS might get some new exposure if there are some waterski fans who read that paper but didn't know about this site...

[vtmecheng]

I agree with @UWSkier that it is a big deal to have the article in the WP. I only know about it because it was posted. It's too bad that this is the publicity skiing finally gets in a major news source.

[oldjeep]

Huh, a thread I can actually comment on The Washington post article won't make any difference, most people don't know or care who Nate is or that pro waterskiing exists. It is apparent from the responses to all these threads and comments I have seen here for years that this all was pretty well known. Clearly nobody cared enough to do anything legal about it, and more amazing than that - nobody's father in this supposed family sport ever educated him. I agree these threads are a waste of time, the sanctioning body will continue to let him complete and people will allow their kids to be around him. Locally we had a high school principal who rightly went to prison for far less - pictures, not contact.

[MDB1056]

Agree 110%. So sick of this....

[Horton]

If you want to see this stuff fall down the page you can

 

A ) not comment on the topic

B ) make intelligent comments in other threads

[skiboyny]

Personally I think it should remain at the top of the page. Most folks in the know have known about this for a long time. For the ones who haven’t heard it’s front and center. Maybe those are the people that can force the hand that would properly acknowledge it and deal with it.

[skidawg]

Like it or not, there obviously is a predator in the midst-as the father of a young daughter-this needs to be addressed! Wa Po obviously found merit in the report! Good enough to validate all the hearsay

[mfjaegersr]

I too would like to see the Mr Smith drama go away. But not by sweeping it under the rug, shuffling it down the stack of threads to be ignored. The solution, for me, by now, is simple:

 

When the predator problem is finally and fully in the open and dealt with, his right to sanctioned participation has been revoked, and his Sponsors FINALLY do the moral, ethical thing, and kick this Wonderfully talented POS* to the curb....THEN it will be appropriately diminished and forgotten. It’d be great to see him and his enabling sponsors donate to some worthy causes - victim support, education and rehab for sex offender types, etc.

 

If you can read through that WaPO article- and substitute your daughter/granddaughter/niece’s name every time it says ‘underage girl’ - and not want to wring Smith’s neck...our values are waaay different. And I’m comfortable with mine.

 

If you’re one that really wants this to go away because you still support him and his awful actions...ask yourself ‘why?’ Don’t bother with a long windy post trying to justify him or yourself...just think about it quietly. ‘Why do I support a guy who beat his girl, had sex with minors...? Why do I think that’s ok?’

 

It’s not ok. It will never be ok. These posts and the people advocating for some moral and ethical - if not legal - justice aren’t the problem; Nate Smith and his enablers - Masterline, D3 Skis, Silver Spray Sports, Zero Off, and AWSA - are the problem.

 

*PreysOn(young)Skiers

 

{Edit: And it would be nice to see Mr. Smith's parents enable their CHILD to accept help...before he (adversely) impacts more children.}

[jipster43]

I’ll be ready to condemn him when he’s been tried and convicted in a court of law - not on the Internet.

[vtmecheng]

@jipster43 he was determined to be guilty by Safe Sport, which is not the internet.

[gregy]

He admitted to and determined guilty by Safesport and was given a sentence. The case went through the proper authorities and governing bodies. In my opinion if we devolve to some outrage culture with lynch mobs society is done. Unless Safesport or the courts reevaluate things or a civil case I'm going with results so far. If they safesport or the courts do change their minds I hope its due to fact not some outraged mob.

[MillerTime38]

@gregy if you read the article safesport was limited to what they could do because the events happened before safesport was created.

[gregy]

Where's the "confidential report" that Wa Po was able to review? If it is confidential why were they able to look at it? I wouldn't trust him around teenage girls and anyone who does is not very intelligent. We had a system and this what the system gave us. From the articles it looks like some short comings have been addressed.

[Jordan]

It seems that the Washington Post had a look at the actual report, not just the summary. Further, they have no personal agenda, nor is it even likely that the reporter had ever heard of Nate Smith before.

The article also answers the nagging question about why the suspension was so insignificant if he really did these terrible things. Nate got off easy because of a technicality where the offence occured prior to Safesport being given the authority to address certain types of offenses.

At the end of all of this, ask yourself if you are really okay with any of this behaviour because now you know that these accusations were investigated by qualified individuals at Safesport and found to have occurred.

As for requiring a "conviction in a court of law", remember it took 20 years for Larry Nasser to actually be convicted.

 

I believe that John Horton has done a pretty good job trying to keep things based on the news and to prevent things from devolving into gossip. Is it uncomfortable,? Yup. Is it important enough to get past that and discuss it like adults? You bet.

 

[skidawg]

It seems as if a safe sport has arbitrarily determine who they are going to punish and to what level, note the equestrian coach who was banned for life after abuse that occurred many years before Safe Sport became an entity. ??????

[Jody_Seal]

Just a friendly reminder that Ball of Spray is the only web site open forum for waterskiing where these types of issues in our sport can be openly discussed.

Good bad or indifferent subjects such as socially unacceptable behavior in our sport need to be brought to light or discussed.

However unsubstantiated innuendo or direct verbal assault should never be tolerated. If one does not want to participate in these discussions or read the content then move on to one that suits your Interest.

 

Me personally am not a fan of a watch dog enity in our sport, nor do I agree with the continued direction and method of operation of our parent sanctioning body.

But! Our society has become a vast diverse society of degregation and poor moral standards in an atmosphere where many parents refuse to take responsibility and or control of their children. So a watch dog entity is easy and becomes the norm.

We may or may not like our watch dog but it has brought social problems both potential and real to light and has made us more aware of these degrading issues and situations.

 

Thanks John for keeping this forum open and accessible for all.

 

 

[skispray]

Agree 100% with @Jody_Seal and others, it’s essential that we have the ability to discuss such important matters. If you don’t like it, don’t read the threads about it. We may prefer to discuss fin settings and technique here but when it comes down to it being able to learn about and speak freely about a potential sexual predator within our sport is likely to be much more valuable for the sport in the long-run. As they say, sun is the best disinfectant. And Horton has done a good job of setting the tone so that these discussion are on topic and not over the line.

[Obrienslalom]

The SafeSport report details allegations that date from 2012. The organization’s hands were effectively tied, an investigator wrote in the report, and SafeSport couldn’t enforce rules that weren’t on the books at the time. SafeSport could hold Smith accountable only for laws he broke or USA Water Ski policies he violated.

“Indeed, his conduct would clearly constitute sexual misconduct under the Code today,” the investigator wrote at one point in the report, “however the Code did not apply in 2013.”

@skidawg If the act was illegal or against the organization's/association's code of conduct at the time, SafeSport could prosecute. I don't think it is arbitrary. Sometimes it takes quite a bit for something to be illegal under law. So they may be left with whatever the USA Water Ski policies had captured as inappropriate.

My understanding is that SafeSport establishes a set of rules across the board so the burden of defining the correct policies don't fall on each disparate organization. There are a slew of things that we can all agree are inappropriate, albeit technically legal. Capturing those things into an umbrella policy hopefully helps get things right. Retroactively enforcing laws and policies is a subject on it's own, but as it stands...they can't.

[APB]

And another abuser/ predator slips into the dark shadows.... it’s messed up

[skiboyny]

The statement from Safesport sounds like a but covering move to me. The punishment was handed out recently, but because the crime was committed in 2012 (which victim age wise make it a bit more sickening) we go by the codes that were in place than. Oh well best we can do. Give me a break!

[Brady]

I don't post much anymore, but I definitely lurk. We tend to idolize people with exceptional abilities in life. Athletes, politicians, actors, etc. Nate has definitely gotten the benefit of the doubt in this community because of how talented he is in skiing the balls. So what! I look at how @Horton is with his little Buford; I look at how many men are with their daughters; I look at what kind of father I am to my 3 daughters; I look at how people treat other people; that is how I measure how "great" a person is. For ANY man to strike a woman--no matter how pissed off he is--he is a coward and a POS>. Combine that with ANY activity involving a minor--that man can go to hell. Children deserve to keep their innocence and when in the company of an adult, should have a safe space and not be in fear. I know all the facts have not come out, but enough have come out for me. Regardless of what Nate can do on the water, when I think of him from now on, he is nothing to me because what is at the core is rotten. Shame on him for what he did. And shame on me for idolizing him even after hearing about it. That stops now.

[slow]

Smith in his apology statement mentions nothing of sex with a minor which he admits to in the Safesport report. Why not.

[jipster43]

Let me be clear! I am uncomfortable condemning Nate because I have not seen enough thorough information or testimony with which to make a verdict. A formal court case would provide the evidence that would make that verdict much easier to come by. That is precisely why our third branch of government is the court system and not the media.

 

I have known of the assault allegations for years and have therefore had a pretty guarded opinion of Nate, but I am still unwilling to condemn him or his sponsors with the level of information I have been privy to up to this point.

 

[PUoldmaid]

As a (what I think most would consider an accomplished female of our sport) we have to keep this open. We have to know. We are just updating our judgement based on what we know. Plenty of “blurred lines” as youth in waterski from what I can remember. Plenty are guilty of that - until he went too far. Sounds like a kid that should have gone to college to separate the scene.

[Cnewbert]

Like most everyone else, I, too, know only what has been made public and haven't I seen any direct evidence in this case. Nevertheless, I can't help but form a personal opinion based on what is known as well as what I can deduce from Nate's public statement. In his statement he says, "Apparently two years ago, certain individuals began a personal attack against me utilizing horrific, fabricated allegations of misconduct to justify their own misbehavior. The allegations were terrible and significant..." If this is true... if Nate is himself the victim of these false and damaging public attacks that have all but destroyed his reputation and caused meaningful financial damage due to loss of sponsorship(s) and loss of future earnings, then why, I have to ask myself, hasn't Nate retaliated with a massive slander lawsuit against these individuals he speaks of? Instead, he says he choose to maintain a low profile in the hopes the attacks would stop and further states it is time to move on without further response. Maybe he plans to sue for all I know, but he makes no suggestion in his statement that he is pursuing -- or planning to pursue -- legal action against these accusers. "Time to move on without further response" says clearly that no such action is being contemplated. Considering the degree to which these allegations already have harmed him, if he is truly innocent I find the absence of an aggressive legal response to recover his loses and clear his name very hard to accept.

[PUoldmaid]

That statement was likely written by his lawyer as part of his total response - which, will likely include aforementioned legal strategy if he is indeed a victim.

[skispray]

@Cnewbert according to the Washington Post he has also admitted to at least two of the allegations he was accused of: domestic violence against his adult girlfriend and to having sex with a 17 year old when he was 23. Confusingly, in the statement he released he denied all accusations except the domestic violence charge, so even what's coming from Smith himself seems to be contradictory. Not a good look when you're accused of the kind of things he's accused of.

[skispray]

@Cnewbert actually I just fact checked myself and realized I was wrong, there is no contradiction. Here is the relevant portion of Smith's statement on the matter:

 

 

According to WaPo, "Smith acknowledged he had sex with a 17-year-old athlete when he was 23. Florida law prohibits a person 24 or older from having sex with a person 16 or 17, so the investigator ruled Smith did nothing illegal in that instance."

 

[Brady]

@skispray had a 23 year old had sex with my 17 year old daughter, his buoy count would drop by 98 percent! That is still absolutely not right.

[LoopSki]

Living in California, there are alot of things that are legal or pushed on us that I don't agree with. I won't get into specifics as it can turn this potical. I don't start threanting or incouraging violence over it. @Brady you are in your right to disagree with his actions,but this act

of sex with a minor, he was within his legal right. If it indeed took place in Florida.

 

On another note, are all the allegations from 7 years ago ? Or are there recent cases as well?

[gregy]

One thing that been bothering me since I read the article. The two items he seems to have admitted to. The sex with a minor was at 23 (5 years ago). Domestic violence 7 years ago. The WaPo article said they could not do anything about the underage sexual misconduct because Safesport had not been formed yet and he was technically not on the national team yet. Why were they able to then go back two more years and give a suspension on the domestic violence but not on the other. Seems like a contradiction.

 

I don't completely trust WaPo to be 100% accurate reporting. In the click bait times we live in I would not put it past them to sensationalize this a bit to get more clicks.

 

 

[Ilivetoski]

@LoopSki In almost EVERY other state a 23 year old having sex with a 17 year old is illegal. I’m 24, if I had a friend who told me they had sex with a 17 year old that would be a massive problem weather they were in Florida or not

[jipster43]

Actually the legal consent in most states is between 16-17. In only ten states is the legal age 18.

[OldboyII]

Just had a look into apple music store - it is loaded with Michael Jackson up to the rim.

And nobody rises his voice to put his iphone in to 5 years suspension.

Instead of this many are using ipads to point fingers to relatively small issue.

Double standards?

Or big boys know how to drag public from really horrible issues to minor ones?

[foxriverat]

I was at the Malibu open in 2015 in Milwaukee sitting next to the parents of a female junior skier. I heard the young lady say to her mom "Nate wants to take us for ice cream" The mom replied "stay away from Nate he likes them young" at the time I thought she was joking. When all this came out I said to myself people have known about this for a while. It`s a free country and you can defend and justify his actions if you like. I know how I feel about the POS and I even had lessons with him twice and thought he was a nice guy. And Michael Jackson. He paid the ultimate price. Karma is a bitch.

[mshaw200]

I’m sure I’ll catch hell from someone for this post.....but....

 

Is it not confusing to anyone else how SafeSport can justify a lifetime ban for the equestrian guy based on an allegation of an event from 50 years ago?

 

But yet their hands are tied here?

[skidawg]

I believe I mentioned that same scenario a few days ago Marc....looks like they are picking their battles

[PUoldmaid]

m

[BraceMaker]

@Ilivetoski your profile says Kentucky which would strangely make consent 16. Well unless you were say being paid to coach a 17 year old to waterski in which case she has to be 18.

 

Which is largely the role of safesport. They split up boys divisions skiing under recognition that some kids in the age range are learning about deodorant while others are being scouted to be linebackers. In some cases a 16 yo girl can choose to get married to your grandpa. In this case I think the litmus test is does safesport deem the infractions as enforceable and does anyone have legal grounds to press charges. Safesport has weighed in. If the second is no then this will have to go onto the back burner until someone pursues criminal action. (In the case of a 17 yo in Florida that would not be parental involvement if she is of the age of maturity.)

[aussiemc]

My question is if Safesport had evidence of illegal acts but couldn't adjudicate owing to it being outside a time-frame or jurisdiction, wouldn't / shouldn't they be obliged to report that evidence to the police / criminal system?

[WoodySkier]

Imagine you have a 16 year old daughter and you have her getting coached by the best in the world who is a 23 year old man. That man grooms your daughter and has sex with her. Would you want him to be allowed to continue to compete with basically no ramifications other than a couple month suspension and continue to be able to coach? It seems tough because he puts on the guise of being a nice guy and is obviously the most talented skier in the world, but at the end of the day getting banned from the sport is a light punishment.

[ski6jones]

Maybe it's just me but no way is my 16 yo daughter spending time alone with any 23 yo dude, regardless who he is. Just sayin.

[Ilivetoski]

@BraceMaker actually Kentucky law is 16 for consent unless the older party is in a position of authority or trust (which a coach would fall under) in which case it’s raised to 18. What Nate did would be illegal in Kentucky.

[ForrestGump]

Good news, everyone! USA Waterski is here to save the day. According to that letter that went out today, they're now going to add a line to the waiver so you agree to abide by their code of conduct.

[Keith_Menard]

@ForrestGump That letter was a joke in every sense of the word.

[dvskier]

CYA letter.