Boat Driver Effects on Feel to Skier

[bsmith]

In this thread https://www.ballofspray.com/forum#/discussion/22042/do-you-prefer-the-new-optimized-slalom-rope about the new ML Optimized rope, @Horton mentioned that it took many years for him to be able to feel the difference between different boat driving styles. His point was that when you think that you are feeling the difference between ropes, you may also be feeling a difference in driving styles.

 

My question to @Horton is if we are talking about very competent drivers using modern ZO equipped boats, what are the subtle differences that it took many years for him to be able to detect?

[Jody_Seal]

Detectable differences

 

1:1 vs reduction transmissions.

 

Weight of boat vs hp available

Pylon height rope attachment point out of the water from boat to boat.

 

Nautique is different then Malibu is different then mastercraft.

 

Propeller pitch and diameter vs needed rpm for given speed to pull given skier.

 

Elevation.

 

Water depth from site to site.

 

Just pointing out that the boat variation can have far more impact on the skier then the driver..

[Horton]

The common mistake drivers make that I can pick out pretty easily is if they countersteer too late. Ideally a driver should ease the wheel away from the skier as the skier approaches Apex. when drivers wait until they feel the skier to then correct there is a distinctly harder pull in the rope between the ball and the first wake.

 

Typically drivers who put both hands on the wheel also feel this way.

[vtmecheng]

As someone learning to drive, I am really interested in this topic.

[Dacon62]

Ditto, some video lesson on this would be awesome. Describing and showing what to do and when.

Want to give my friends the best chance to make the pass.

[h2onhk]

I like this thread. I am always looking for ways to improve my driving to help out the guys on the other end of the line. How does the driver know when to ease the wheel away from the skier? If the skier is very consistent I can get in a good rhythm with them, but if they are late or inconsistent on turns or pull too long I find it harder to compensate early and find myself being reactive instead of proactive.

[JaredSmith]

Please explain more @Horton. When the skier is coming around lets say the one ball you are easing the wheel to the left away from the skier correct?

[jpattigr]

Great Subject! Teach us!

[Than_Bogan]

What I almost always feel from new shortline drivers is the mistake that I think @JaredSmith just suggested! :)

 

They let me pull them toward 1 ball way too much and then they try to get back to the centerline as I am at the apex of the turn, yanking the rope away from me.

 

Steering corrections should happen early and under the load of the skier. When the skier is up on the boat, drive straight (which may required UNdoing the corrective wheel position from when they were loading).

 

P.S. If Chad Scott says anything different, do what he says and ignore me completely!

[markn]

Think Jody is very insightful on his comments....tons of variables. Same driver in 3 different boats and all three will feel different. That said, starting at 35 and then 38 and 39, the amount the driver "gives" becomes increasingly evident. While working up to senior driver, my mentor always said it was a "dance". The back of the boat will move, but the pylon should remain centered. How much the back moves is the "give" of the driver. No give and the pull feels firm, too much give and it will feel sloppy and lose at the buoy. A hard pulling skier or one who pulls long into a buoy can take too much from the "give" of the driver unexpectedly. Then when the skier goes into the pre-turn, the driver corrects and "pulls the skier into the buoy" trying to get back to center too quickly. Starting out, drivers (myself included) sort of drive gate to gate. This method results in over-correction and more frequent corrections...sometimes unnecessary. If one looks far down course, the line is easier to drive and far fewer corrections are needed. Thus same principle applies to driving a care too. Look just over the hood while driving. It will feel faster and you will correct your path frequently. Look far down the road and is feels slower and far few correction inputs are needed.

I do think one handed driving is better, but my wife drives with two hands, but low on the wheel, not 10 and 2. Have videoed her path at 38 and pretty damn good.

[bsmith]

@h2onhk I am a reactive driver myself right now, probably because I don't get to ski with many good skiers. If am ever able to drive well for a short line skier, I will need to start practice being proactive with any consistent skier that I come across. Right now, I am sure that I am a harsh, two handed reactive driver that tries to stay centered as best as possible.

[Horton]

@Than_Bogan I guess if you pull super long I can see how you get in that vicious circle.

 

Less is more and early is better than late. The wheel should move a tiny bit away from the skier before apex and be back to center when the skier is at first wake. The hard part is to do this enough but to not move the pylon. The back of the boat moves toward the skier but the pylon stays in the middle.

 

I "tried" to drive @Rico with a boat I had never driven before on Wednesday. I was so lost that after a few passes I defaulted to moving the wheel almost not at all and just trying to be in the middle. Point is, when in doubt don't try to crab the boat & again less is more.

[iceboating]

Watching a few of the streamed tournaments this season I really thought it was cool when they had a camera on the driver. It might not be fair to the driver to have the added pressure of a camera pointed at them but to see their technique is helpful to a novice like myself. One thing that jumped out at me was how the pull up set the tone for the pass.

[UWSkier]

Wish it was a longer clip, but here's a cool shot from the TXi promo vid of Chad pulling TGas.

 

Link to specific time didn't work for some reason. It's 30 seconds in.

 

[Chad_Scott]

Lots of things to think about @Jody_Seal was right on point with his comments. Other things to consider when pulling a skier. Right foot forward vs left foot forward. Knowing the prop rotation on the boat, which will determines which way the boat wants to go naturally. It’s important to feel the skier and be aware of where the skier is even though you can’t see them. Does the skier run and early aggressive line (if so the slight counter needs to be quicker) vs a skier that runs a later less aggressive line or turn in and out of the buoy. In this case the move would be less and a bit slower. Drivers that tend to be more reactive than proactive will find themselves chasing the skier thru the course. I think it is much more difficult to drove proactive with 2 hands on the wheel. Reaction is much slower and you lose the feel of the rudder and what action in needed for each skier Having the opportunity to pull many high end skiers the one consistent comment is they need the rope and the end of the turn. If you give them the boat as described then your chance of being loose at the buoy increases. That loose line results in a loss of speed for the skier exiting the buoy. It takes very subtle moves at the right time to stay ahead of the skier. Boat path is much more consistent if you are proactive and not reactive. Your job as a driver is to be invisible. In my opinion most problems start before the boat ever enters the course. It is important to be ready from the very beginning. One of the consistent things I see when watching end course is drivers getting pulled left as the skier pulls out for the gates. While the skier is in his/her glide the driver is then searching for the middle as approaching the entrance gates. This usually results in the boat sliding towards one ball as the skier is turning in for the gates. This is where the chase begins most of the time.

[Horton]

forget whatever I said and listen to @Chad_Scott

[JaredSmith]

@Horton and/or @Chad_Scott are you attempting to have the back of the boat pointed towards the skier as they hook up at the finish of their turn?

[Horton]

yes just a bit

[JaredSmith]

Thanks, keeping the pylon in the middle and pointing the back of the boat slightly towards the skier as they hook up at the finish of their turn would give the skier a tight line and good acceleration towards the next ball.

[markn]

I agree. Listen to Chad!

[Chad_Scott]

I never really think about having the back of the boat move on purpose. I think more about moving the nose of the boat away ever so slightly. When the skier has cleared the second wake and is in the pre turn I am relaxed and trying to just sit and not move at all. As I feel the skier release I thumb away on the steering wheel opposite the skier hoping to bring the line tighter as the skier finishes the turn. Hoping I am slightly ahead of the skier finishing the turn

[vtmecheng]

@Chad_Scott thank you for all this information, your explanations are really easy to visualize. I can't wait to practice this.

[LLUSA]

Look at end course video when available

[skiinxs]

Super advice from the best, listen to Chad! Also, make sure the boat is not leaning. Leaning causes them to slide more on one side and react to the pull differently side to side, messing up the rhythm, and causing different corrections side to side.

[skibug]

A LOT of drivers do NOT place enough importance on weighting the boat and this doesn't mean level while in neutral; it means level while at skiing speed. IMHO it makes a huge difference on how well you drive the boat. As mentioned above; the movements can be subtle and should be precisely timed. If you boat is weighted incorrectly, it will not handle correctly, taking you further away from being able to drive correctly.

[JaredSmith]

Thanks @Chad_Scott, great information for many but likely hard for the average driver to do.

[WoodySkier]

Some boats will handle totally different with weight to balance it out especially if you just have a driver and no spotter. The new prostar drives like a completely different boat with weight on the observer side. The 200 does drive a little different but not as dramatic as the prop spins the opposite way.

[a_bax]

Thank you for all the insights! Question: I use the line of the wakes behind me to judge how centered I am but I have heard that your wake should be slightly off center and that the direction depends on the direction of the prop rotation. Is this significant?

[Chad_Scott]

That is correct. If your prop wash is centered chances are that you are not

[a_bax]

Thanks @Chad_Scott. It makes sense. How far off center should the prop wash be? Which side of center would be correct when driving a Nautique versus Malibu/Mastercraft? Thank you

[LLUSA]

Take every opportunity you get to pull the Chad Scott’s of the world. I honestly believe that helped my driving more than anything

[teammalibu]

I was looking at some video on our old DVR here at the Ridge the other day! I watched chad in 3 boats in 3 rounds, he had noticeably less movement than any of the other drivers!

[ski6jones]

We had video for practice last weekend. Super helpful if you want to improve your driving. I've just setup a camcorder at the end of the lake. It wouldn't meet tournament requirements but still very helpful if you want to improve your driving.

[Chad_Scott]

@ski6jones That’s definitely the key to getting better. Nothing better to let you know what you are doing. It’s guys like @LLUSA that take time to look at video and talk about things and seeks ways to improve. I have enjoyed many conversations with guys like Lyman, Greeny, Badal, Jojo seal and many others about driving. It’s always good to listen to these guys and talk about techniques and what they are thinking or trying to do and then watching the end results during a tournament. It’s like skiing, you have to really study it and pay attention to improve. Never leave an event without watching the end course to see how you were doing while in the tournament.

[teammalibu]

Chad told me a long time ago when I asked him how my EC video looked! He said you need to watch it when I asked how bad he said it’s not bad but you need to watch it.

Great advice but it’s like watching yourself on a ski video it feels a lot better than it looks but it’s the only way to improve. Thanks Chad I have it set up in my garage and we watch a lot of EC video!