What is a ZO bubble back worth?

[aupatking]

I recently picked up a 2001 bubble back Ski Nautique and sadly, the engine appears to be trash. I happen to have an extra, pre DBW Excalibur engine. I like having the extra engine for my current boat, a ZO’d 2002 that I love, so I’m struggling with the idea of putting the Excal in this boat if I’m going to sell it. I was thinking about using this as our club boat but dropping another $5k in it for the club boat is another thought I’m wrestling with. I’m really wondering what dollar value would the boat be if I did the conversion and sold the boat.

So, what would you pay for a low hour 196 TSC1 hull with Zero Off?

[rockdog]

Hmm not sure of value, but a bubble butt with an Excal and ZO is a damn good slalom boat. @Bruce_Butterfield would agree I'm sure. The only sticking point is the actual age of the boat, despite how good it may be.

[Orlando76]

If it’s not for you then don’t waste the time. 99.9% of the skiers gotta have the latest greatest and most expensive. No time for practicality.

 

I’d say $12,500.

[dabeej20]

I think a stock bubble butt in good condition is closer to the 12.5 mark. I’d say closer to 15ish, especially for the right person.

[Deanoski]

15-16 k

 

[Bruce_Butterfield]

Asking prices on SIA for 97-2002 Nautiques are between $13.5-$18k. The question you need to answer is how much of a premium can you get for a new ZO compatible engine?

 

Keep in mind that the field of potential buyers for an older re-powered ZO boat is REALLY small. Skiers serious enough to need ZO are generally more affluent and can afford the newer boats. The potential buyers will be limited to serious skiers on a tight budget, recent college grads and maybe clubs that put a lot of hours on a boat.

 

If the engine is "trash", I'm not sure what options you are looking at and what the cost/benefit is for each option, i.e. rebuild existing engine, low cost "crate" engine or your spare?

 

Dropping $5k for a new engine in a club boat seems like a good idea.

[Dockoelboto]

The boat is only worth what someone is willing to pay. You might find someone willing to pay big money for a TSC1 with ZO but that is likely not a great option. Location also dictates value, at least to a certain degree. Here in the PNW there are a lot of overpriced boats for sale. Some guy currently has a 99 SN 196 listed for 20k. It has been listed for 1yr, no budge on price. Club boat seems like a great option, making it ZO to try and flip for profit, seems risky.

[BrennanKMN]

I sold my 600 hour TSC1 for 16.5k 2 years ago. It was in good shape, but not showroom by any means. I've been seeing TSC3 hulls with ZO going around the 24-28 mark (and bought one there too), so that gives you an idea of the room for a TSC1 with ZO.

 

While I personally like the TSC1 hull better than the TSC3, the fact that it is a 'non-factory' setup was a deal breaker for me. I have no interest in that type of setup. Support, resale, parts, all become more difficult.

[thager]

I have 5 people still asking me to call them if I ever decide to sell my 2002 196 with ZO. There is still a demand. IMO the slalom wakes on the 02 196 are best of all the TSC hulls, bubble butt included. Tricks not so much.

[buechsr]

I don't agree with the pessimism that you wouldn't get your money out of that conversion. Even asking $20,000, you'd have the cheapest zero off boat in the country, with a new engine, with arguably the best wakes ever. I legit think you could sell it for $25,000 to the right person. Most decent 196s with zero off are about 27-30 right now.

[Orlando76]

With early 200’s getting to the $30k mark, why would the guy who HAS to have ZO buy a boat not used in tournaments for~$27k? A 2001 year boat at that?

[Orlando76]

Wasn’t there a blue ZO 1997 SN for sale for quite awhile in WA State? For like $15-17k?

[aupatking]

Thanks guys. That helps make my mind up. I think any ZO boat around $20k is a steal. They don’t seem to exist. I’m going to take inventory of what I’ve got and what I’ll need to finalize my decision.

It’s obviously a much bigger job to do an entire engine swap from Ford GT40 to Chevy Excalibur and, totally discounting the $5k+ to get Zero Off in that engine. If I were swapping it would be easier to go ahead and do the ZO with the engine on a stand. Either way, this one is coming out.

[ski6jones]

@aupatking I'm pretty sure you'd need a new trans as well. You mentioned engine but not trans.

[aupatking]

@ski6jones I think the bell housing and drive unit are different but they use the same transmission. Am I wrong there?

[Orlando76]

Same transmission

[liquid d]

We've got a 97 with ZO (Jody special) and 6L 2015 SN200, and we use them both back and forth all the time. I have a couple friends that start at 28 and they love to ski the 97 because it doesn't have a curb at that line length. It's one of the easiest boats to keep straight that has ever been made.

I'd fix it, and then KEEP it!

 

[vtjc]

I agree the TCS3 ZO 196 prices had stabilized in the $25k-28k range. I bought one in that range two years ago that I enjoy. I had watched 196 prices for a while, purchasing a TSC or TSC2 boat with the idea of doing an engine swap or conversion no longer seemed economical. I did see a few swapped or converted boats during my search I was always worried about maintenance and resale for me down the road. Since you already own the boat and have a motor its likely different for you.

 

The COVID-19 era is different. There are a few 07-09 196s with ZO for sale for $26,500 around the country, some for several months.

These two boats recently sold near me.

08 196 $10k https://www.ebay.com/itm/254544326459

08 206 $15k https://www.ebay.com/itm/2006-Ski-Nautique-206-with-trailer/254545565456

They had been used as summer camp boats, the hour meters were broken and estimated at 2k. They didn’t have speed control. The camp owner wouldn’t allow them to be water tested or taken to a dealer to read ECU for hours prior to sale. The 08 196 went for $10k and the 08 206 for $15k as a pair. I wish I had bought the 196 but would have needed to water test, to reduce the risk before the purchase. Not an indication of a normal boat transaction but perhaps an indication of the weird market we are in.

 

Good luck with your decision.

[swc5150]

Wow, to think I paid $27.6K back in the day for a brand new '06 196 SE.

[6balls]

I have a '2000 bubble butt with PP, would probably list for $14K or $14.5K if I were to sell. Will be hard for me when that day comes...been a great boat bought in 2010 with 84 hours for $17K was listed at $19.8K back then.

[Andre]

@6balls 10 years of use for 3k !!! Great deal!

[buechsr]

Orlando, where are you seeing early 200s at the 30 mark? Onlyinboards has just 2 boats sub-40, both more than 1000 hours. In fact, there's as many 200s north of 60 as there are sub-40. Send link, please.

 

That aside, what I said to OP was that I "legit think you could sell it for 25 to the right person". I stand by that. It would still be one of (if not the) cheapest ZO boat in the country, with a hull that is preferred by many over the 196 and 200. In fact, the only ZO boat that I'm aware of for less than 25 out there right now is Tom and June Asher's malibu.

 

Go for it au!

[Deanoski]

@buechsr ski it again

 

[Orlando76]

@buechsr well I guess it’s hard to believe good deals go quick. With the 200 hull it’s possible it’s a 10 year old boat or 3 year old boat so maybe it’s wild to think there’s a $30k window in differences. I feel the OP is wasting his time and resources to do the conversion especially since he already stated he had other dreams for that motor. If he’s thinking to sell it for $25k a budget minded skier is gonna have trouble getting a loan on almost a 20 yo boat so that means the person would likely have to have an extra disposable $25k sitting around. I’d imagine if one were so committed to ZO they’d likely put $25k down payment on a 200 and walk away with a loan equal to peanuts.

 

The conversion is a great tug if he kept it for himself but clearly has no intention to. My suggestion is to gather up the parts necessary and sit on it. find a buyer willing to put a deposit down then do the conversion. Yeah that’s highly unlikely to happen but evidently there’s a grandiose market for it. Or, the more practical approach is to sell boat as is or just put a $2200 long block 351 in it, push it out the door and allow a more practical, affordable boat for a family looking to get started in watersports.

[buechsr]

 

deano, cheapest 200 on SIA is 35k w/ 1000 hours. I'm not saying one has never changed hands for 30, but there's no evidence of "early 200s getting to the 30k mark", which is what got stated.

 

Orlando, I said I "think" he "could" sell it for 25 to "the right person", and that at 20k he would still be the cheapest ZO in the country. Since this project is being compared to a used 200, it's worth noting that there are (some) people out there who would prefer a ZO bubble back to a 200 straight up, let alone with a 10k difference. I'm one of them. I've had 2 CB Responses, 2 lxis, 2 LXs, a bubble back, and a 196 (I don't discriminate, much), but I would never buy a 200 (I'd never buy another 196 again, either). But, I would absolutely buy another bubble back, especially one with ZO. Does that mean everyone thinks like me? Of course not. But a ZO bubble back would be very appealing to a lot of people considering how many, rightly or wrongly, consider it the holy grail of slalom wakes. ZO is more important to tournament skiers than having the newest hull. They are already skiing behind brands other than their own. When the cheapest ZO boat in the country is 20k and has multiples of thousands of hours, it tells me something about the potential value, to the right person, of a new-engined ZO bubble back, in my humble personal opinion.

 

Au, can you clarify something? Is your debate 3 options?:

1) replace with 351? (is it a Gt-40 now?),

2) convert to chevy using your instock 350 (and staying non DBW),

3) convert to chevy AND at the same time convert to DBW and ZO?

 

I'm a little unclear after reading your original post. I think #s 1 an 3 the best.

 

But to be sure, you are talking about true ZO and not perfect pass, correct? Your 2002 has already been converted to DBW and ZO?

 

[Orlando76]

@buechsr “But, I would absolutely buy another bubble back, especially one with ZO.”

 

@aupatking I just found your market. Heard $25,000 is a good asking price

[buechsr]

I actually already thought about reaching out to au, but have the next boat down to 3 frontrunners and I need another one soon. Kinda bummed.

[bananaron]

Like anything your boat is worth whatever someone will pay for it.I shop around and can always find good prices on pristine boats.This yr however its a little different so far.Perhaps it will change as we get into the summer.......

[aupatking]

@buechsr my considerations are your 1 & 3 options. #2 offers no considerable increase in value, and if I put the Chevy engine in, paying the extra SEEMS to offer the greatest return. A rebuild of the current GT40 in it will not be cheap, so the ZO upgrade will cost me about $2,500 more, but increases my possible sales price by more than $5,000 (up to $10,000 but that would mean making the boat perfect which would add more cost, ie new gauges and carpet/seadek).

Yes, my 02 has already been converted to DBW and ZO.

[Lakebum]

@aupatking I don’t have Nautique experience, however, when I called Indmar tp discuss a Drive By Wire upgrade and ZO it was a considerable cost. My 2002 MC 197 had throttle body injection w manual throttle. The parts alone from dealer were $7.5 K - engine not included. Ugh.

[buechsr]

au, you and I see things similarly, but apparently we're in the minority. I still think like the value proposition of the conversion. Especially if it's just $2,500 to go DBW, and you have a block sitting around already.

[VermontSkier]

@vtjc I was curious if anyone else saw those boats, I was almost willing to pull the trigger and bid on the 196 since the posting kept getting relisted with no bids.

[6balls]

Everyone should listen to @bananaron about buying in the used market...we're talking experience!

[buechsr]

looks like the 196 is listed on SIA?

 

https://www.ski-it-again.com/php/skiitagain.php?endless=summer&topic=Search&category=Boat_3Event&postid=55123

 

[dvskier]

No ZO on that boat. Could certainly be easily added.

[buechsr]

dv, yes, that was posted because it appeared to be the same boats that did not sell on ebay, the link for which was previously posted.

[vtjc]

The NH seller told me he sold it for $10.5k. Seems the guy is NY is trying to resell it. Seems the ECU read few hours than NH seller had estimated. I have a bit of regret not going to see and buy it, but was blocked by stay home stay safe orders at the time. I still have my mint 08 196 to enjoy.

[Deanoski]

great buy just need ZO

 

[liquid d]

an 08 should have ZO on it already...and i don't think it went to $10,500...makes no sense.

[Orlando76]

ZO capable. Doesn’t mean it was automatically added.

[dvskier]

@liquid d If you look at the pictures it showed a blank 3.5 inch spot where the ZO readout would be.

[bananaron]

I bought a mint condition or really pristine 09 196 with ZO LAST JUNE FOR $23,000.The boat was flawless and and really taken care of.I am anal about my stuff and this guy was even worse.