Ropes at Nationals

[liquid d]

Did you guys prefer the ropes at Nationals? There is a rule that says you can have 2 types of ropes in competition. I think it would be preferable to have the Optima 2 along with the regular "older" rope that does not stretch near as much. Opinions?

 

[MarkTimm]

The Technical Controller at the Western Regional tournament brought in two sets of ropes.

The Masterline optimized 2 and Syndicate ropes. Each skier was give a choice. In my opinion this was great option for the skiers with very little hassle.

[Kelvin]

The rules allow the LOC to provide 2 different ropes, but doesn’t require it

[NikolG]

Spongy spongy spongy! Didn’t get a choice that we were aware of in our skiers’ divisions

[brettmainer]

@MarkTimm, I was not given a choice of ropes at the Western Regional Tournament. Sounds like Steve wasn't either. Maybe that is because M4 was the first event of the tournament and that choice wasn't in place yet? That said, I did not notice the rope as a factor in my skiing that day.

[Booze]

The stretch at 28 was very noticeable and I had to be careful not to fall in. (IOW too stretchy)

35 and 38, I can't say it was an issue.

[Horton]

Did all competitors know the spec of the ropes available before the event?

[hammerski]

Very stretchy ropes, no choice on the dock ✌️

[sunperch]

I was not given a choice on the dock at Nats

 

[liquid d]

The ropes to be used at Nationals were published beforehand in the info/guide which made me go get one a few weeks prior to Nats. My point is that we need to make sure that we request for a Regionals/Nationals to have both ropes available as their is a very noticeable difference.

[JackQ]

Having two ropes choices, just complicates and slows down tournaments. At the Nationals the rope handles were pressed just to change the ropes quickly enough, I was tired just watching them. I think changing the handle, not the entire rope is much more efficient .

[liquid d]

The ropes are 2 different colors....the stretchy one is grey...shouldn't be much of a problem.

[MattP]

Ropes were known months before the tournament. I bought a ML 2.0 to ski on this season because of that. The rope felt "normal" to me.

I know OM & MM were given the choice of their rope between the 2.0 & Standard ML.....

[Not_The_Pug]

At Western Regional's there were two choices of rope, ML 2.0 & Syndicate. The dock starters were told to ask the skier which rope they wanted, but I'm not sure that always happened (especially the first group, which was M4). I don't think the ropes were stretchy, the lakes at regional's were really deep (20+ ft), so it felt soft at the turn.

[lpskier]

I asked and was told that the alternate rope was the original Optimized rope, which I didn’t like. I do like the 2.0. I don’t have any complaints about the ropes, though it does appear that scores were lower than normal this year and there has to be some reason for that.

[MISkier]

@lpskier, I think lower scores were the result of the shallow lake, particularly at two ball going away from the starting dock. It looked only about waist deep and that can affect the ski significantly. I'm guessing more tail slide than skiers were ready for.

[The_MS]

Lots of times the give or sponginess you are feeling is the ZO letter. Its the boat, not the rope. 2-3 skiers will stretch any rope and it should be good from there on. I would think that they didnt just pull new ropes out and not pre-ski them

[ski6jones]

I knew they would be the optimized and manged to get one to practice with before Nats. I would like to see both types offered. Either the tournament buys two rope types or all of us do so we can be prepared.

[JackQ]

Where will the madness end, choice of two ropes, but I may want a third, why not in tow instead of Syndicate or ML 3.0. I think you all should worry less about the rope and more on the skiing. If you don't think about it, it wont matter, if you do it will. Just turn hard, and pull harder.

[dbutcher]

I think we are all head cases. Just grab the handle and ski.

[skier2788]

I got the Malibu this year. Haven't had a promo Malibu in my area since 2016. Newest Malibu I could get behind was a 2013 that is two Hulls ago from current. I should get my choice in boat... (Sarcastic tone)

[unksskis]

Providing it can be measured for tolerance, can you bring your own rope for slalom? If so, seems like the best option.

[liquid d]

@JackQ and @skier2788 There is a major difference between the stretchy one and a regular rope...I'm not complaining (hell, I won), I'm merely saying either provide both or make one type of rope that stretches a certain amount and they all manufacture to that specification. It's not picky, but to treat it like it's nothing, is stupid. When you load the stretchy one hard, it recoils like crazy into the next edge change.

[skier2788]

@liquid d I feel that stretch probly more than most at 6 foot 2 220. Considering one skier in my division didn't tell the boat driver he was ready and the boat took off with the skier yelling "I guess we are going now!" The rope choice seems trivial.

[JackQ]

I must be tone deaf, I can tell one is stretcher than the other, but after my 1st pass I am too busy just hanging on to tell nor does my performance seem to change between the ropes. I didn't even realize which rope was used at the Nationals at the time. Maybe, sometimes it is better to be oblivious.

[dbutcher]

@unksskis Sorry, but no. Rule 10.16 B 4 on page 64 of the AWSA rule book specifically states that "A skier cannot provide his/her own slalom rope".

[liquid d]

There are enough variables in this sport, the rope should not be one of them. There should be a standard amount of stretch that the rope manufacturers can follow. It's not that hard.

[unksskis]

What is better about the 2.0 to make it the standard pull for Nationals? It was tough to even tell what was what in the ML tent, weren't labeled clearly calling out what was what from what I could find.

[dave2ball]

@unksskis the ML 2.0 has all its materials made in the USA. At Masterline they have control over every aspect of the rope making process from the way the fibers are braided together to how the rope is made and measured correctly. Many If not all of the competitors ropes are Made in China where the company’s have zero control over the materials and the quality control.

I fact I have seen other ropes from ski MFG come up short in overall length and even have the back feeds cut and then melted to prevent freying which causes the rope to be cut from the inside out.

The Masterline 2.0 loads more gradually thus allowing the skier to set there edge and load the boat better. The 2.0 also allows the ski to cast out better due to the way the rope reacts when the load is released.

There has been many months of development to get the rope right. Masterline listened to many skier who provided feedback when developing this rope.

Not quite sure how often you change out your rope but that could be the cause of why the 2.0 feels so much different compared to your current rope.

[MattP]

@dave2ball all well and good, but I have skied on some that felt like a bungee cord and some that feel fine. My personal rope feels great. The one I had at nationals felt good too. I have just felt a lot of inconsistency with them.

[unksskis]

Thanks @dave2ball I don't have one but two people I ski with do, and rarely notice a difference like what it felt at Nationals. Guess it's time to drop some coin.

[MattP]

I will say this again

I know OM & MM were given the choice of their rope between the 2.0 & Standard ML.....

If I am wrong someone correct me. But when you see a grey ML go by and 2 guys later it is a white mainline you know they switched styles of ropes.

[unksskis]

@MattP yes, I know OM were given a choice, grey or white. There was no explanation of which was which though, they just said which color do you want. M3 were not given a choice, they had two ropes that I'm assuming were the same, as it was to expedite the transition to the next skier.

[dbutcher]

Unless I am just plain missing it, it appears that elongation standards for slalom lines have been taken out of the AWSA rule book (perhaps on 5/3/2020). If so, is that not the root of the problem people are discussing above. If elongation standards were taken out of the rule book, WHY? I believe elongation (elasticity) standards still exist for handles. Technical controllers and rules experts, please chime in. I don't personally care, but it appears that many people may.

[JeffSurdej]

Just kills me that ropes are always such an issue. Just to clarify, the TC of nationals when it was at West Palm, announced we would use 2.0 only so that all skiers knew, so we stuck with that. Maybe in the end the best is to give a choice, which might suck for dock starter, IDK. But I talked to Martin Kolman who is a top notch TC and worked very hard on all 6 ropes, so how can these ropes still be so stretchy. I wish we had a device that would test the bungieness b/c all these ropes "measure" the same but that have to have tremendous differences in bungiesness under skier pull?

[dave2ball]

@MattP the white optima rope is a bit more forgiving the the 2.0. Not sure which one you ski with but the 2.0 is a bit firmer like the original ML ropes which are still available. It does take a couple of rides to get use to the new feel. I have skied with many of them and have not had the bungee feel as of yet. When someone first skis on the new 2.0 it will feel softer or in your words bungee cord.

[MattP]

@dave2ball 2.0 the new one that was colored. Have had it since the season started. I bought it cause it was the one we told would pull Nationals which it did. I'm ok with that.

 

@JeffSurdej I talked to Martin as well about it and I know how much he worked on them. Again my question is why did the "Elite" get to choose?

[JeffSurdej]

@MattP Don't know why elite got a choice, I was asked 4-5 times throughout the week to give everyone a choice and said no, simply b/c a national announcement was made that only 1 rope would be used the 2.0 so like most things I find in life, stick to the rules or what was decided and don't open that can of worms. This is the first I'm hearing about elite getting a choice. I see no reason not to give choice next year, its the skier friendly thing to do. So we will!

[keithh2oskier]

Enough about the stretchiness of the ropes. When are we going to address the wetness of the water and how that impacts scores?

[lpskier]

@keithh2oskier The water was too wet this year! And I know because I was in it a lot. Fell in slalom; fell in jump; fell in trick. I knew there was a reason!

[kc]

@keithh2oskier & @lpskier I actually preferred the wetness of the water over the wetness (i.e. humidity) of the air! :)

[Jody_Seal]

Its pretty easy! Change handles in the boat. everyone then skis on the same rope. Good, bad or indifferent it more equalize the playing field.

 

[Andre]

Let's start using a rigid steel bar instead of a rope.

No more bungees...and no more slack!

Win win!

[lpskier]

@Andre Your mother never cautioned about running with a sharp stick in your hand?

[teammalibu]

Tired of all the rope drama! At Cedar Ridge we are planning on using the Masterline pro which is the rope from before Opt 1or 2.

We have a couple new ones for our fall tourneys, I don’t think any one will complain!

[teammalibu]

I was in the boat for martins practice at Bennetts’s, I was going to start him at longline so he could stretch the rope but he wouldn’t have it!

I liked his comment before his 39

pass he said less rope less problems, then he stroked it!