Look who’s complaining

[MNshortliner]

Guess things are coming around...”Full Circle”

 

http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=809466

 

Hahahaha

[Horton]

I tried to log in and make fun of them but that darn site won't let me reset my password

[Horton]

This isn't true for the surf guys but for the wake guys I understand some of the new boats actually do make a wake that is too big. I mean if you are a pro that's one thing but if you are a beginner holy crap. It's like teaching a beginner jumper off the 6 foot ramp.

[ISP6ball]

@Horton must've been banned :)

[DavidN]

I’m gonna be a smart as here. :D @Horton

https://www.ballofspray.com/forum#/discussion/24275/keeping-ballofspray-on-focus

[skimtb]

Troll. It’s on MC teamtalk too.

[DavidN]

And on Malibucrew, Planet Nautique, ....

[ajgear]

I’m just glad I sold my crossover so that I can now look disapprovingly at wake boats when they go by. Most of them on our lake belong to my buddies, and I’ll gladly take a surf pull, but it feels good to have the moral high ground. Soon I will also shake my fist in the air as they pass, but I haven’t perfected the disapproving look yet, so first things first.

 

In all seriousness though, one of the reasons I switched to a pure ski boat was because our 20 VTX was getting swamped by the behemoths in the surf lanes. 3 years ago, it was us and maybe two other boats with similar wakes. Now there’s 10 out there, and the small ones are 22’ and weigh 4500# dry. It’s an arms race. Now we ski before they get on the water and pontoon in the shallow parts where they can’t go when they are out there....or hop on the big ones and surf with them. ?

[UWSkier]

There's a post on themalibucrew from a guy who just bought the new M220. His first time out, his wave went right over the side of a PS205 from about 400 feet away.

 

Yeah, they're getting too big.

[Horton]

@ajgear you own the most advanced crossover boat ever.

[ajgear]

@horton, to which do you refer? The SN or the VTX? I can understand the argument for either.

[Horton]

@Ajskier your Nautique. The ballast systems and wake enhancement systems in that boat make it more of a cross over than any other slalom boat.

[tru-jack]

@Ajskier quick question. we're a family in an lxi and I ski, but kids enjoy to surf in afternoon. it's good enough for us, with wedge down, and a minimal amount of added ballast. thinking of upgrading to new boat, but would like to be able to take kids surfing in afternoon. with ballast can you surf behind SN? Nothing special, simply no rope, and a bit of carving. thanks

[Keith_Menard]

Yup...one sunk me a few years back.

[DW]

The big boat surf community has also been extremely defensive relative to shoreline damage complaints, upset land owners, etc on boat owner forums. The group is compiling ways to defend against shoreline damage ordinances and draws comparisons to other vessels they feel do comparable damage and/or operate in a disrespectful manner.

[HMan66]

"This is wakeworld. I’ve at least a lurker on this site since the early 2000s. It’s amusing that we’re complaining about the wake that modern boats are throwing. We used to throw the biggest wakes on the lake and we told everyone else to live with it. Now that someone else is throwing a bigger wake, we’re crying about it. The circle is complete. I wonder if the oldtimers from ballofspray ever come over here to get a chuckle out of how wakeboarders are complaining about what wakesurfers are doing to the water." :D

[WoodySkier]

I actually really like surfing, it’s super fun thing to do in the afternoon with a few beers and boat full of people. We ski early in the morning and they don’t come out then.

 

That said, I was out a few weeks ago pulling my 8 year old skiing on a calm evening and we were the only boat on the lake until a surf boat came out. The waves got so big I had to be careful not to swamp my 200, and my son had to stop skiing because of the waves. Tubers, skiers, wakeboarders, usually not a big deal at all when pulling him skiing, but these 4 foot rollers ruined our night.

[dvskier]

SpWn of the Devil

[ajgear]

@Horton, absolutely. It really does throw a pretty significant wake with ballast full, hydrogate up and lower speeds. A buddy of mine did trick in his younger days and was inspired to break out his trick ski. That wake scared him a bit. I had to go to about 50% ballast before he would try anything. He finished 3 inverts in 4 tries. By that I mean that he made it about 3/4 of the way over each of the four times. :D @tru-jack, I'm not sure about surfing w/o a rope. We did wake foil behind it last weekend. It was all of our first times on a foil, so it was a bit of a mess, but I think if we played with it, we could get that to go ropeless, as my buddy was able to ride with a fair bit of slack for quite some time before failing both epically and comically. If the weather cooperates this weekend, I'll gladly load it up and pop a wake shaper on the side to give it a shot. I'll let you know.

[LoopSki]

Years back I took out a G 23 a few times and if you weren’t careful you would swamp yourself. Hated dealing with that boat from towing it launching it cleaning it what a big pain in the ass.

[Jody_Seal]

The next thing is these guys will be buying up or digging their own wakeboard lakes!

 

I am trying to find the old 60s film and photos of my two step brothers and myself surfing lake Havasu with my dad's old vdrive flat, 8 foot boards.

[LoopSki]

Luckily these barges are super expensive. Can you imagine with the lakes would look like if every Wally could afford one

[UWSkier]

@LoopSki with interest rates where they are on 20 year boat loan, every Wally CAN afford one. The lakes out here in AZ are crawling with them. When I lived in WI, I almost never saw brand new, giant wake barges and wondered who the heck was buying them... Answer, people out here. 23' boat is the minimum on the PHX area lakes. Malibu introduced the slalom-focused VTX that also throws a great surf wave this year. Local dealer sold almost none of them...

[IGski]

I wonder how long before someone tries to sue over getting their boat swamped????

Excessive use of water. :D I had a boat go by us once and they were laughing as it tossed us around....not cool....

[BobF]

In most areas in the US, you actually are legally responsible for damages caused by your boat wake. Not sure what counts as negligence if the boat is designed to throw a 4ft wave, though.

[tjs1295]

@UWSkier You're dead on regarding every Wally can afford one. And they are all over Wisconsin now. Guy down the road from me is on his second Paragon this summer. First one hit 30 hours, and he got rid of it. That one was a 23, not sure if the new one is 23 or 25.

[Than_Bogan]

I try so hard to be in favor of all forms of recreation.

 

But a line has to be drawn when one person's recreation can significantly limit others recreation or even cause harm. If your idea of recreation is to shoot frisbee players from a tree, then I'm afraid I have to say "No, I cannot support THAT form of recreation."

 

NOTE: I am NOT equating murder with anything comes below here. I merely chose a ridiculous extreme example to prove that such a line must exist. I can't believe I have to say that, but I know I do.

 

Wakeboarders occasionally annoy me personally, but I've tried as much as possible to support wakeboarding on my home lake. With a little effort all around, wakeboarding can coexist with lots of other recreation.

 

Surfing is over my line. Those wakes are flat-out dangerous to others trying to use the lake. I think surfing should be limited to facilities where there is a reasonable expectation that the surfer is only one using the lake at the time.

 

So, at least to me, wakeboarding and surfing are in fundamentally different categories. And if I were a wakeboarder, I'd be quite concerned about being "lumped in" with surf boats, which I firmly expect will be seeing bans in many places.

 

 

[jepski]

These massive Bro-ship wake boats have made me love to see a pontoon pulling a tube zig-zagging across the cove I want to ski LOL. Is the water now crappy, yes. But can I ski through it to better water...yes. Could I do the same thing with 4' rollers...nope! It's a challenge to get my PS 205 through w/o swamping. Not to mention, I've never seen a Bro-ship alter course or kill the throttle as a sign of courtesy or safety. Instead the driver plows ahead, standing at the helm with "salt life" cap on backwards.........

[thager]

Watch a Surf driver sometime. They never look where they are going. Always watching the surfer in a left turn here. Almost ran over a fisherman couple weeks ago here. Week earlier a different Surf just missed a kayak. also no clue it was even there.

[skier2788]

I always joke that Nautique would be better to have cameras in the bow instead of the transom maybe then a surf boat could see in front of them.

 

In all honesty the death of our sport I feel will be related to the surf crowd either because of danger or erosion problems. Know of many lakes that are putting length restrictions in place and fear it's only a matter of time before they say no motorized crafts.

[tjs1295]

Do you guys really think there's anything that can be done about them? I know nothing about any of it, but I don't see how they can be regulated.

[IGski]

@tjs1295 excessive wakes are becoming a big problem for smaller lakes. I believe at some point there will be restrictions due to damaged property and erosion of shore lines. There is a lake near me that the county wanted to shut down one portion that parallels the County road because the erosion was eating away toward the road. The lake association added rip rap to prevent the closure. Bigger lakes maybe not... but smaller lakes I see it could happen.

[dvskier]

I live on a 18,000 acre reservoir, many islands are scattered here and there. Recently the power company who owns the lake began laying rip rap on the islands to preserve them from being eroded. This will not of course help homeowners on the big water where their docks are subjected to extreme pounding from passing surf/wakeboats. We’re about 1.5-2 hours from Atlanta so the weekends are very dangerous. I believe the local dealers are doing their best to educate new boaters but it isn’t working very well. I have 2 new surf boats in my cove and they come by my dock at well above no wake speed. If I’m on the dock they take it easy but “out of sight, out of mind”. Several months ago the big Supra broke 2 mooring lines for my pontoon boat. My Nautique is on a lift so no problem with it. The Supra guys wife said “he’s never had a boat before”. I assumed as much. He wants to get a dredging permit so that he can have water depth for a lift but I don’t think his neighbors will sign off on that. One neighbor is on city council and takes a dim view of his abuse of his neighbors on the lake.

[tjs1295]

It will all be pretty interesting down the road. These big boats aren't going anywhere soon. It'll get much worse before it gets better.

[TB29]

As a side note, is there anything more boring than sitting in a boat and watching a group of 10 people alternate through their turns surfing?

 

I get that it's a nice, easy activity with hardly a learning curve (and I do enjoy doing it a few times a summer) but I can't imagine sitting in my boat all weekend every weekend and watching people surf. By the third person it's overdone.

[LoopSki]

@TB29 that would suck to be the sap stuck driving all day. But I wouldn’t mind being the passenger and drinking beer all day .

[jetpilotg4]

Can you actually get a modern day ski tug to throw a big enough wake to surf behind? Without those water sacks? What about those wake shapers that go on the side of the boat?

[LoopSki]

@jetpilotg4 I tried a homemade shaper. Not enough on a new prostar. You will Need some big jug friends or some ballast bags

[Than_Bogan]

It's always a good idea to bring big jugged friends.

[dvskier]

DDD

[Kwoody51]

Prostar can be surfed... :wink:

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/pmiOrJhDRu/?igshid=1ueij0myv4ud4

[ajgear]

There are proposals to limit boats with “wake enhancing devices” deployed to certain depths of water (I think 15 feet or so) and no closer than 200 ft from other vessels or shorelines. They’re doing the depth thing under the theory of preventing bottom stirring which releases nutrients from the bottom into the water, feeding algae blooms. The rest is obviously shoreline preservation and safety. It would essentially eliminate wake boats from smaller, shallower lakes.

 

As a recovering surfer, I get the arguments on both sides, but agree that wakes have gotten WAY beyond what any amateur surfer can even handle. At that point it’s just a phallus measuring contest. But if they keep building them bigger, people that feel the need to compensate for certain shortcomings will keep buying them. And eventually there will be enough backlash to stop the madness.

[ajgear]

Here’s an article about the battle in MN:

 

https://www.minnpost.com/environment/2020/03/the-battle-over-wake-surfing-has-made-its-way-to-the-minnesota-legislature/

 

Doesn’t sound like much is going to happen just yet, but other states will certainly be watching.

[Edmund]

The city owns the lake I have a house on and ski, and I am on a task force to put forward a recommendation to the city council on what to do about surfing: ban outright or establish a surf zone in the widest parts of the lake. Trouble is, the widest parts of the lake range from around 400' to 600' (and a very short distance of the 600' width). It is a 330 acre lake almost 4 miles long, so relatively narrow for a public boating lake. Those surf boat wakes will knock a skier down because there is no escape. We ski early mornings to hopefully avoid the surfers, but they are starting to get out earlier also. Our task force meets next Wednesday to vote on a recommendation; not sure which way the vote will go.

[ski6jones]

I've spent some time fishing in the intracoastal waters of TX. The wakes from a big surf barge are about the same size as a tug boat. Difference is the tug boats slow down when passing other boats or close to shore as they know their wakes can cause serious damage. A boat is responsible for damage caused by its wake.

[ToddL]

All Adult Skate. Remember when skating rinks would kick all the kids off for a song or two and only allow the adults to skate? Why couldn't the same work with water sports? Establish some hours when large wake sports are prohibited (No waves over 2 ft). These hours then become the non-wake sports "skate" time. Obviously, the 2 hours round dawn and dusk would be good for slalom skiers.

[chrislandy]

@Edmund 4 miles long! lucky man. Just have one of the end 1 miles designated surf only with time restrictions and an along the length of the lake path only to stop the rollers going up the lake. Just then have the problem of who to annoy at which end of the lake ;)

 

Also, I hate wake surfers. My boy was just starting to ski at 4 when he got turned turtle on a ringo (he/the ringo was stationary) by a surf wave. Couldn't get him back in the water for 4 years and it's only in the last few weeks (nearly 10 yrs old) that he even went in the ringo again

[Edmund]

@chrislandy Sorry to hear about your son's experience. A friend of mine on the lake told me of a young swimmer this summer getting pushed up under a dock by a surf wake. And recently a jet skier got thrown off the jet ski by a surf wake and the jet ski continued on, hitting and breaking a 2x10 board of a dock.

 

Complaints about surf wakes have risen dramatically this summer with many people working from home and lake traffic very high. We skiers have not been vocally public with complaints; it's the fishermen (one got slammed against the shoreline rocks this summer), kayakers, stand up paddle boarders, and a number of lakefront property owners.

 

@ToddL We task force members have discussed many options including time slots for different activities. This summer the lake users voluntarily started a gentleman's agreement called "no-wake Wednesdays" to benefit the fishermen during their weekly Wednesday evening fishing tournaments, and it has worked out well. But we are back to the two basics: to ban or have surf zones. The trouble with surf zones is they put the surfers passing in front of the same docks and shoreline even more often (and that includes my house). The city ordinance already prohibits the filling of ballast tanks, but the surfers, and even the wake boarders, ignore that rule; I see this violation almost daily.

 

It is not an easy discussion to have, and trying to come up with a fair solution is proving much more difficult than I ever expected.

[MNshortliner]

I think @jepski said it best, simple and to the point. Can everybody coexist out on the lake together? Jet skiers, pontooners, fishermen, skiers, wakeboarders, tubers, kayakers, SUPers, leisure cruisers, young kids playing on the beach, and anything else you can think of....YEP. Throw in just one surf boat and EVERYONE’s day is changed in an instant.

[chrislandy]

@Edmund luckily his love for the sport has overcome his fear. Got him back behind the boat in August last year, kneeboarding and pair skis, got 4 solid days on the water out of a 3 week holiday. Then this year in 10 days of skiing split over the last 2 months (thanks covid!) he's now on mono and just starting to run the course and is also stable and comfy on pair tricks crossing the wakes & side slides