Stack - What's the point?

[Adam Caldwell]

We don't always learn things by more reps, more effort, or more coaching.

 

For me, the search for answers has come from asking a different question. Here is one that made a profound difference in my understanding of this sport, and an even more profound difference in my buoy count and consistency.

 

So..... Being "stacked' - What is the point?

 

See if you can answer in two sentences or less - I'll will offer up my perspective on this question next week.

[B_S]

By being stacked, you're using your skeletal structure to transfer the load rather than using your muscles to transfer the load.

[The_MS]

It puts your body in a position of strength so you don’t fold up like a lawn chair. Try playing tug of war without stack and your in the mud pit

[RGilmore]

The skier’s body is a variable link between the applied force and the resulting work.

 

Proper stack allows the most direct and efficient transfer of energy from the boat, which supplies the force, to the ski, where the work is done.

[MISkier]

The stacked body position allows you to resist the force of the boat and the corresponding load while transforming that energy into speed and direction. Proper stacked position also ensures the attitude of the ski is maximized onto the correct/optimal surfaces without the skier prematurely succumbing to physical fatigue and failing to retain the position for the required duration.

[Fastguy888]

Being Stacked is like the super sick way to ski bra' totally helps like your body and mind connect for a far-out feeling, like the boat doesn't own you, but you are one with the boat. Makes the best looking girl on the dock check you out and be all, "woo dudes so Stacked!" Probably land you a million dollar sponsorship with an energy drink company and bunch of people going to stop you at the grocery store and be all "that's the dude that ski's so stacked" probably want you to show your stacked position right there next to the mustard.

[Horton]

Being stacked

A ) transfers much of the load from muscles to skeletal structure & puts skier in a stable athletic stance

B ) transfers load forward on the ski

C ) puts the handle as close as possible ro the skiers COM

 

[jcamp]

Being in a stacked position allows you to more efficiently gain on the boat.

[Bruce_Butterfield]

"Stacked" simply allows a skier to use his body as a lever more so than brute strength.

 

How any given skier uses his stack is another story. A perfect stack leaning back and putting the brakes on is obviously bad. Finding the sweet spot with stack and leverage to maximize acceleration is the elusive goal.

[skialex]

Also Better stack lessen the chance of an OTF... which is a good thing, for your health and skiing life..

[Andre]

All of the above!

What do i win?

[BobF]

I also like to think that a proper stack guarantees that your weight (and/or the boat's energy) is centered on the ski's sweet spot, allowing it to work as designed.

[lpskier]

A stacked skier looks great in a bathing suit?

[MDB1056]

Provides proper alignment required for energy transfer for efficient skiing.

[Clydesdale]

Nothing to add but I want to ski with @Fastguy888 and Spicoli from “Fast Times at Ridgemont High”.

[ozski]

If you apply some discipline and do this one "correct thing" at the end of the turn then a sequence of events pretty much just happen as a consequence of that one thing. If you don't do the "correct thing" you will spend your life wondering how the hell good skiers run short line.

[ballsohard]

I heard a rumour that if you ever question the importance of being stacked @Horton will appear at the end of your pass in scuba gear and will pull you under.

[OTF]

@ballsohard don’t worry about @horton, he don’t have time for that he’s coloring and building with blocks now.

[Horton]

@ballsohard is you want to ski like a kook with your ass hanging off the back of the ski it does not hurt me.

 

@otf things are changing around here. My job as a 1st grade teacher is coming to an end

[BG1]

What’s the point? Leverage.

[6balls]

One important tool in a box full of 'em. Must be used with other tools and be properly applied to contribute to successful skiing.

[skispray]

I think these answers that reference acceleration are right. It seems like when you are truly stacked it's akin to the idea that when sprinting you want to be leaning forward as much as possible without falling over. The idea is to be leaning forward to the maximum extent possible without "outrunning" your legs, so that your legs moving forward are all that's preventing you from falling forward onto your face. This is the action that will achieve maximum forward speed. Likewise, in slalom it seems like you want the connection to the boat and your body position to be "ahead" of the ski so that the ski is always trying to accelerate in order to get underneath you. If you can get into that sweet spot where the ski is wanting to accelerate to catch up to you but you are positioned so it isn't catching up to you until centerline, then you will generate the maximum acceleration possible and it will be along the path of the handle. At the end of the day it seems like it's about generating as much speed in the right direction as you can, so that you generate the most centrifugal force possible to whip you up on the boat.

[OTF]

@horton you get fired because you won’t teach to count past 6? Seems like a good dad to me

[pregom]

A good stacked position is what allows a skier to get the maximum mechanical advantage from the boat pull. Good stack - you convert pull into cross-course speed. Bad stack - you end with a nasty OTF fall. If I could only learn how to do this properly...

[blakeyates]

Just stay stacked............. That is LaPoint.

[lpskier]

@blakeyates If you’re Lucky.

[Zman]

It's going to be a long Winter.

[Zman]

And, that's no Bull.

[hammerski]

Being stacked is an efficient way of getting max velocity from end of turn to centerline ?

[LK_skier]

Stack = lean = more speed (with less input) = earlier to buoy = more control and time

[ReallyGottaSki]

I'll take a stab

Stack, not only centers the body's leverage to the vector to the boat, and thus naturally adjusts the ski's position to one's center mass, but also utilizes both the power of skeletal strength and the large, resilient muscle groups ( quads, glutes, upper back traps, and abs) vs folded, where both power and endurance are limited by the lower back and arms.

[thager]

Stack goes a long way in Hollywood!

[6_Buoys]

Webster: to arrange or fix so as to make a particular result likely. We stack (wood, bricks, etc) to utilize the strength of togetherness. We stack (shoulders, hips, knees, etc) to utilize the togetherness strength of the entire body.

[JAS]

A rigid body position provides optimal conduit for energy transfer from boat to skier-ski. Stack describes the skeletal alignment that requires the least muscular contribution to hold this rigid position. Anything less results in lost energy or excessive effort.

[Skoot1123]

Stack gives you mechanical advantage. Mechanical advantage gives you efficiency.

[dchristman]

Aside from the obvious mechanical advantage provided, the taller you stand the greater the potential width of the ski path yielding a greater margin for error.

[MDB1056]

@dchristman - do you mean a lesser margin for error ?

[dchristman]

@MDB1056 I mean greater margin for error - more space to make mistakes and still keep running the pass. I'm just trying to come up with another answer to "what's the point?" rather than another way of stating "it's more efficient". Less human energy put into the system is great and all, but mere mechanical advantage is too mundane to have evoked a profound understanding in an engineer. I believe Adam is about to enlighten us with something involving the space-time continuum that'll instantly get us all 6 more balls :)

[Adam Caldwell]

All really good stuff from EVERYONE!! This isn't my answer to the question but wanted to chime in.

 

Id say right now @Horton and @skispray, @dcristman are in the right direction with where I was hoping to take this conversation.

 

While there are a lot of reasons that being stacked is advantageous, like so many have highlighted here, there are far more dynamic outcomes to be gained at the top of the swing if we can figure out how to get aligned properly in the downswing.

 

Shifting the focus away from the 'static' advantages of being stacked and more toward understanding the dynamic results achieved as a function of a stacked position is the only way to move forward in this sport. I think once we can understand the 'why' there will be a greater conviction for the 'position' we seek to achieve during the pull.

 

So again, What's the point of a Stack - What is the dynamic 'result' we are looking for?

[Skoot1123]

I was trying to stay within the bounds of two sentences as indicated by the original poster. No need for pleonasm.

 

Diving deeper into what I said earlier - focusing on the dynamic part of “stack” maybe we need to ask another question - What is one of our primary goals in course skiing? Is it to reach the buoy at the right time with the right amount of line tension? How do we get there? Through proper “stack” (body structure alignment, mass balanced over ski, and positioning of the handle) we can accomplish this. Don’t we want to ride or carry the handle out to the buoy as far as possible? Having ourselves properly aligned on the ski will help us do this. The dynamic result is we will have speed, direction, and positioning (skeletal alignment and ski position) that allows us to start our turn far earlier than we could before and carry our speed through the turn and back into the stack position for the next buoy.

[ReallyGottaSki]

Desired Dynamic results? - maximizing acceleration and stability

[jpwhit]

The "Why?" IMO is Momentum. The momentum needed to move the pendulum to the point where the skier is advancing on the boat.

[disland]

https://facebook.com/waterskination/posts/2227351050840443

 

This is stacked

[MDB1056]

@disland - no content to link. "This content isn't available right now"

[dchristman]

No pleonasm. 'nuff said. :)

[Wish]

I’ll take a stab at it.

 

Stacked moves our now aligned center of mass (weight) that’s pressing on the most efficient part of the ski (widest part) that’s moving in a down swing direction from slightly behind the pendulum swing to ahead of it acting like a weight at the end of a string swinging which creates a greater more efficient and accelerated down swing and a faster upswing essentially beating the boat to the ball. ?Did I just do that in one sentence?

[Dano]

Sounds to me like we stack in an effort to keep COM located at the end of the handle and travelling the same path as the handle with a tight line giving us a controlled uniform swing. If you are not stacked, COM will not be in line with the handle making for an awkward swing. Think of a pendulum. If the ball at the end of the string is not in a straight line with the string, then the string would not be tight, and the swing would then take an erratic path.

[HSL]

Haven’t you already explained the dynamic result of skiing in a stacked position (in two sentences):

 

This position greatly improves cross-course acceleration and increases the speed at the course center-line. With this high speed and reduced load, the skier will be able to transition to the turning edge much earlier and more easily, with ample energy to achieve the primary objective of taking the handle as high on the boat as possible as fast as possible.

[bishop8950]

When I am stacked behind the boat, part of my mass (lower body and ski) is between me and the boat and the rest (mid and upper body) is behind the handle and farthest from the boat. When I am efficiently stacked I feel my lower body and ski swing from closest to the boat to farthest. The better my stack, the more easily and farther my ski swings out.

 

When I am not stacked my lower body swings less and instead my upper body comes inside the ideal arc and over my ski. I feel less upswing, end up on a worse line and fall behind the boat at the buoy.

 

It actually easy to feel on the water. Not just interesting theory.

[ETskier]

Stacked, across the wakes quickly and efficiently. Not stacked, little progression, OTF a lot.