2021 is my last year of USAWS

[ToddL]

Latest that I received from Nate is that they are making headway to move the BGC to only be required of Nationals' Judges for all Sport Disciplines. If that comes to be, assistant judges (who can't judge at nationals anyway) would be exempt. I assume for Regular and Senior judges, the BGC would be optional. Only those who want to work Nationals would be required to comply.

[skierjp]

@ToddL Yes, as I mentioned previously. It’s hard enough to find enough qualified 3 event senior judges for Nationals now. I’m sure all of us have received emails in the past where Nationals are pleading for volunteer judges.

[LeonL]

@ToddL "only those who want to work Nationals....." if that turns out to be the case, that kinda changes a lot of things for me.

[markn]

These policies sound as fluid as those of the CDC, WHO and Fauci! Ready, fire, aim!!!!

[The_MS]

They still need to remove the SS training requirement. At a maximum, set it up so only coaches and team leaders have to complete it. The very least I would be OK with is a 10 minute on line informational video that explains

SS. You could complete that when you renew.

[ETskier]

Has anybody thought about how SS will affect sanctioned practice? I looked at the sanction package for practice and all the forms are the same as for tournaments. I know many clubs are required by ownership to sanction practice for all year and all skiers are required to be active USAWS members. This would require a lot of diligence by the LOC in managing the paper trail and monitoring who may ski, particularly guests. Another can of worms.

[Mrs_MS]

Glad to hear they are making headway on the BGC…..I would be happy to continue to judge and work on getting my regular judge rating back again to help out. ?

[ETskier]

Agree with @The_MS just above, I could live with that. We'll see after Feb 1st when my renewal is due. Meanwhile, I'm going skiing.

Happy New Year!

[Keith_Menard]

Is this where we bitch about safe sport? I started yesterday and will be lucky if I finish by spring. That is BRUTAL.

[Mastercrafter]

@Keith_Menard, how long has it taken so far? I've been debating checking it out but can't find the motivation.

 

[ToddL]

I suggested to Nate that USA-WSWS consider:

10 minute or less awareness video for all members

Current training required for Coaches, JD adults, and judges wanting to work Jr divisions at Nationals

Offer the Safe Sport training as voluntary resources to parents.

Offer the Safe Sport youth training as voluntary to parents to share with their youth.

 

The answer I got back was that such a plan is not feasible due to financial costs to generate content, etc. I have not yet pushed back, but come on... it costs nothing to grab a phone, tripod holder, and a desk lamp and record a video posted to YouTube or whatever.

 

As far as the script goes, the content should explain the law, provide an overview of USA-WSWS's approach and program, share three things every member can do to improve safety, provide information about reporting a concern, and state where to find more information.

 

It seems like a worthwhile effort with minimal cost to me.

 

 

[dave2ball]

@ToddL why would Nate want to do his job when he can just give us on video and shove it down our throats.

[The_MS]

It would be simple to produce. Probably quicker then putting out all the info they do today via e-mail. They just don’t have the gumption to care enough to try and deal with it

[Keith_Menard]

@Mastercrafter I would say I am 30 minutes in with no end in sight.

 

 

[Keith_Menard]

I should mention, I came into this with a pretty open mind. My kids are all in waterskiing and other sports so I thought...oh, this could be pretty worthwhile...bring attention to the issues, heighten awareness, etc.

 

I am 30 minutes in and thinking...so wait, the USOC screwed up so bad for so many years that now WE have to pay the price for it?!?

 

Massive over correction.

[Mrs_MS]

@Keith_Menard

I’ve heard people say they breezed through in 30 min…..I’ve also heard people say 2 hours on up to 4 hours!

 

I’m not sure how the program is set up…. But sometimes if you put your mouse on the line at the bottom and move it to the end (to speed it up) and hit next or whatever…… that may be the difference in the variance of time it takes.

 

Basically…..skimming through

 

Just a guess….I’m not doing SS until I know for sure my fave sites I like to see my friends at are hosting any tournaments including our own.

 

[ToddL]

90 vs 30 minutes:

 

30 mins = refresher, it was a breeze. Those who have previously taken SS full training (L1 coaches, leadership) were only required to do refresher content.

 

90 mins = full training. For 1st time persons. This one is NOT easy, not quick, etc. Apparently some people are having technical difficulty. My hypothesis on difficulties is that the system assumes the viewer will NOT MULTITASK during the session, stay on the active window the whole time, never click away, etc. etc.

[klindy]

@ToddL remember ALL of SS is 3rd party administered. Not only is SS a recognized program is also provided substantial benefit from a self administered or even self produced program. While I agree a 30 min program might be tailored nicely to waterski specific members/scenarios, as Nate mentioned in his initial response to you, we certainly are content experts on waterskiing but are not experts in the world of sexual harassment, etc. The ability to “get it right” and satisfactorily address any USOPC and/or insurance concerns makes it tough. There are various training programs for different audiences already inside SS which,

I’d agree, might be of value.

[ghutch]

I just took it and got through it in about 15-20 minutes. Keep clicking next and take the test at the end. If you do the pretest it is the same answers as the test at the end. Wasn't bad but not doing the BGC or giving my SS #. Really hope this gets solved, tournaments are a big part of my summer enjoyment with friends I don't get to see often.

[ToddL]

@ghutch - so was this your first time doing any SS training for USA_WSWS? If so, then you broke the speed barrier and you just proved that the content is just "checking a box".

[ghutch]

Yes first time doing it. I just kept clicking the next button when I could.

[igkya]

Seems like @ghutch skipped through the actual training and just took the tests? No technical IT requirement that you actually read any of the material?

[The_MS]

@ghutch is a professional at all things Safesport and can easily pass the test. He is trained to know what we are trained to be on the look out for

[ghutch]

@The_MS hilarious! @igkya nope, no IT requirements. Much like spotting someone who "may" or "may not" be a pedophile, you never will know until it happens. Sad world we live in now especially since it has touched our small niche of water skiing.

[JeffSurdej]

Yes it is true that pending board approval in Jan that background checks will not be mandated unless officiating nationals or international level event. For those of you bashing the HELL out of USAWS you need to recognize how hard they fought to NOT make this happen in the first place and continued to fight after it was mandated to find a way to make it work so it didn't effect us negatively. Some of you think they don't care or that they sit back and do nothing or that they actually came up with the idea of SS and background checks for officials. Go sit in their shoes. Go deal with insurance companies who wont insure you without SS, parents mandating something be done, and all the BS.

 

Got news for you, if AWSA breaks away from USAWS or USAWS breaks away from USOPC, were still gonna have to SS at some point I can almost guarantee it.

 

I know it sucks but if its helps make sure our sport is around for decades b/c we are not being negligent and have insurance coverage then go online for 3 freaking hours. Hell you all spend 3 hours a day adjusting your fins settings.

 

Love, ex-president looking for a panda :)

 

Sorry, just tired of the negativity, lets just go ski people!

 

 

[Keith_Menard]

@JeffSurdej I would like to just go ski....but I am only on module 3.

 

That is actually not even a joke we were going to do a New Year's Day ski in New England and one of the boats broke I said I could do it but I just need to go do my certification first only to find out there was no way it could be done in a reasonable amount of time

[Markzimmy]

I have a similar question/concern as @ETskier around SafeSport requirements for guests, first time skiers, grassroots, practices, and clinics. I spend a lot of my time teaching new people how to waterski, and learning what 3-event skiing is. Would SS also be required for someone coming out to learn to ski and isn't competing? USAWS requires a grassroots membership for these events and on the SS requirements chart it says Grassroots members must complete this training. Will be impossible to grow our sport and teach people how to ski if they have to take a 90 minute safe sport training before they even touch a ski.

 

For those wondering it took me a little over an hour to complete the SS training. Time to go ski! :smile:

[A_B]

@Markzimmy

if this SS requirement holds true, then it makes sense that ALL skiers of any level need to take, because it really isn't about skiing.. If they are onsite and there are minors present, they qualify for training requirement.

[The_MS]

@A_B

except for international skiers, we can trust them

[ski6jones]

@Markzimmy

how management didn't identify this as a HUGE issue from the very beginning is just mind boggling.

[Dirt]

@JeffSurdej nobody is going to just go ski and the organization won’t exist if we keep saying stupid sh.. like this is inevitable. We don’t have to have all these ridiculous mandates.

They didn’t have airplanes and skate parks for many years because of stupid liability but they eventually fixed the problem. The answer is not to just accept it and deal with it.

I bet most of the membership will not just accept it and ski tournaments. They will just quit tournaments and go ski.

I appreciate Jeff Surdej hard work.

I think a better answer is maybe we all demand a prorated refund on our memberships for being deactivated.

[JeffSurdej]

@Dirt

maybe we’ll figure them out. They already solved the background check. what are ALL the mandates? Are there any others besides Safesport?

 

[ski6jones]

Every aspect of the organization is subject to change, except NO REFUND on memberships. USAWS need to retain membership somehow. On the bright side you get to keep all the other valuable membership benefits, except the ability to compete of course.

[thager]

Do you still have to be alive to count as a member?

[Golfguy]

@Jeffsurdej Will you tell us when the BG check has been removed as a requirement for assistant judges. I am holding off on suctioning my tournaments until this is final. Thank you in advance for any information you can supply regarding this.

[JeffSurdej]

@Golfguy pending risk management and board approval at end of Jan meetings, I would suggest contacting your voting reps to assure they are voting to remove this proposal.

[skierjp]

I’m still confused on why BG checks would be required for Nationals but not regular tournaments? What if they can’t find judges to hold Nationals? According to policy, to be invited to Nationals as a judge you need to be a 3 Event Senior. Might be slim pickings!

[The_MS]

@JeffSurdej you also have the increased mandates on the LOC such as the 30 and 7 day email. All of the MAAPP requirements. The clubs pay the sanction money, why can’t there be an automated email sent from USAWS to cover the notifications.

[JeffSurdej]

@The_MS Agreed, was thinking the same thing. A lot of clubs don't know how to use the OLR email function, its easy if you know how to do it but yes to automate this based on who is entered would be a nice feature

[ForrestGump]

@ToddL I manage learning for a company with 6000 employees and 20,000 resellers. The cost to do what you suggest with the awareness video can be absolutely massive. It's very simplistic to say "just develop a 10 minute awareness course." It's not the video content production itself that is costly. That is mice nuts. It's the learning management system costs and integration to be able to track who consumes what for compliance purposes. You can't just throw a piece of content on youtube and let it fly in todays age. You need an LMS to house the content, allow users to log in, be tracked, and then have that tracking integrated and communicated to your own back office so you know who has consumed what and when. LMS systems bill per user or per course. It's fairly easy to rack up a million dollars in LMS costs. One of SS's benefits to the overall community of sports orgs is that they average those LMS costs and development costs for their content across all sports orgs, not just waterskiing.

[Dirt]

@JeffSurdej thank you for your service as President and taking the time to respond in retirement. I guess its not a bunch of requirements. It has been driver backgrounds, clinics, the judge background check and safesport.

It is the implementation without communication and input from the membership that bothers me.

There have been many great comprises suggested here.

[ToddL]

@ForrestGump - oh, I have developed LMS content for a global corporation for deployment using train-the-trainer, CBT, and follow-up content knowledge validation tracking. I know exactly what you mean and what that takes.

 

What people are missing in my proposal is this: If USA-WSWS correctly identifies the true roles of high-interaction with youth, those roles can be managed through the existing SS LMS system. For ALL OTHER ROLES, the objective can be relaxed to simply awareness management. Clearly, USA-WSWS leadership would have to propose and convince the insurance and SS compliance persons that this solution is meaningfully applicable to the requirements of compliance. To do that, the proposal needs to be fully defined. There seems to be a lot of resistance to "pushing" for such acceptance to go forward. If leadership doesn't want to make an attempt, then there will be no improvement in how USA-WSWS manages this requirement for its organization.

 

A LMS (Learning Management System) is not mandatory for this awareness level of content distribution. USA-WSWS already has all the tools within its toolbox. For example, I have described the KISS approach of generating a concise, awareness video using free tools. That is not costly. I understand the fear of content selection. However, the tracking aspect is still outstanding. USA-WSWS already has an on-line legal signatory solution for e-signing the release of liability. That same solution could be used for an on-line e-signature of a legal statement acknowledging that the video was viewed. The statement could include a summary of the content and the reporting information as well. The statement could therefore be another redundancy of the content to solidify knowledge awareness objectives.

 

Now, before anyone says, people will just skip the video and do the e-signature, I want to point out that the current training solution from SS appears to allow one to simply click next repeatedly and jump to the test at the end. So, if that type of "training" is acceptable to SS, insurance reps, US congress, etc., then this isn't about ensuring the safety of our youth. This is about checking a box for CYA, which can more easily be accomplished in a less distasteful way.

[Bruce_Butterfield]

@JeffSurdej "They already solved the background check"???? How do you figure that one?

 

According to Nate "We are making some headway regarding background checks for officials and that will be discussed at the January board meeting. We received a clarification recently that only USA-WSWS “approved or assigned” judges would be subject to the USOPC background screen requirement for officials. That would mean only Nationals and above judges would be required to have a background check."

 

"making some headway" is far from "solved"

How are kids any safer with BG checked officials at Nationals vs at a Class C with non-BG checked officials? Its still a stupid requirement with no benefit and no problem being solved. The pool of judges at Nationals will still be a problem.

 

I'm pretty sure the AWSA board will vote to not do BG checks, but the problem is AWSA vote doesn't count. Its the USAWSWS BOD that will be voting - and AWSA only has 3 votes out of 22

https://teamusa.org/usa-water-ski/about-us/board-of-directors

[Jody_Seal]

@Bruce_Butterfield

Well it does legitimize the elitist good ol boy ideology for national judges.

They already have their preferred trick judges.

Next will be Vax cards for sure especially if this risk management group has anything to do with it.

Again seems other sports associations can get along without usopc graft money's.

where does that association benefit me as a member of the awsa?

Quit being negative the elite overloard said.

Well in my experience with this organization when positive ideas are brought forth they are many times not in step with the what the overloards and grewites for see as best interest of the membership as a whole. Rather their personal agendas is what steers this organization. Level 10? Phone app?

Membership as a whole should demand the resignation of the executive director and the board should all step down for failure to be transparent and forthcoming to the membership they represent.

For marketing revenue losses as well as membership losses due to their incompetence at the tasks they were paid to do or volunteered for.

 

 

 

 

[Stevie Boy]

Perhaps , I am a bit Naive, but where does the abuse etc ,occur when a Judge is either in the boat or in the judge tower, I do not get the concept, yes team officials and coaches are in a position to abuse, because of the ability to favour and choose team members, coaches work closely with students and may get thoughts that are not appropiate if they get too close.

So why are Judges, considered to be potentialy more likely to abuse their position ?

[Horton]

[The_MS]

Anytime you can get a 47 page thread, you should thank the Lord

[JeffSurdej]

@Bruce_Butterfield I may have jumped the gun, its not official yet, you are correct. AWSA has 3 voting reps but their votes are worth 30 votes out of the 59.1 total votes.

[bigtex2011]

@The_MS ...... news flash. I just logged in after being in a coma for 2 months. You still haven't quit. @jayski and I can direct you to a 12 step program at cottonwood just beyond the corn field.

 

repeat after me. I'm mark and i have a problem :smiley:

[The_MS]

@bigtex2011 I don’t have to quit, my membership is suspended