Baller rfa Posted October 22, 2021 Baller Share Posted October 22, 2021 @The_MS, you say "This thread would end today if the BOD would listen". Respectfully, maybe, if as @Jody_Seal says, "those that support a government overreach program in this sport" do not need to read this thread. However, it seems to me that some do, hence, there are opinions (24 pages...) on both sides. Why do you think the BOD would only "listen" to one side? I am curious about your point #2. above, on what you would propose. Do you know if the insurance companies agree with "only require coaches and leadership to complete training"? I have no basis to know either way, just asking if you know. Because if they don't, I am not sure how "our own training that will satisfy the insurance companies" would/could be materially different from SS...especially if the program was driven by liability coverage (i.e. insurance companies) to start with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ The_MS Posted October 22, 2021 Author Baller_ Share Posted October 22, 2021 From the web site “From a liability standpoint, our general liability insurance carrier supported the SS training decision. Although the requirement does not affect our insurance premium directly, it puts the organization in a better position with carriers moving forward” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 6balls Posted October 22, 2021 Baller Share Posted October 22, 2021 @rfa good point--as a small organization it would likely need to outsource it's training rather than developing something on it's own as a loosely bound group of skiers who have no background in the area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller klindy Posted October 23, 2021 Baller Share Posted October 23, 2021 @6balls hold your cards, we have a winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ lpskier Posted October 23, 2021 Baller_ Share Posted October 23, 2021 @BS74 The premise of your argument is that a court would not act without first affording the defendant a hearing-“due process.” This is incorrect and hence is the fallacy of your argument. Courts impose temporary “punishment” all the time without affording the defendant a hearing. For example: You are arrested and charged with theft and destruction of personal property for breaking your (psycho) now-ex-girlfriend’s phone during an argument. In reality, she threw it at you, but her story is you took it and broke it. The cops arrive, you’re arrested and brought before a judge for arraignment. You plead not guilty and are released, but not before the judge issues a “stay away” order of protection, meaning to have to stay completely away from the girlfriend until the case is fully resolved, six months or a year down the road. Since you lived with the girlfriend, you now have to find a new place to live because the order prevents you from going home. Also, since there is now an order of protection against you, it’s a federal crime for you to possess firearms, so if you have any, they have to be surrendered to the police. Say goodbye to hunting season. The police then issue a press release detailing your arrest and the order of protection. Now everybody knows about it. After the case is resolved in your favor, good luck getting your guns back. And no press release. Also, courts issue temporary restraining orders without ever hearing from a defendant, and preliminary injunctions with minimal information and often no hearing all the time. You get your trial at the end of the case, long after the injunction went into effect. Sometimes for all practical purposes you win your case by getting the preliminary injunction. Lpskier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller BS74 Posted October 23, 2021 Baller Share Posted October 23, 2021 @lpskier : We disagree and if you read the article there are lawyers suing Safe Sport who believe due process is not taking place, so I'm not the only one. Here is a case study since there is no time limit. Another coach was accused of sexual misconduct 50 years ago, and he was suspended. It's simply on word against another. https://athletesforequity.org/safesport-case-study-scenario/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Mrs_MS Posted October 23, 2021 Baller Share Posted October 23, 2021 I actually can’t believe no one has started a poll regarding SS. I would assume most are on board with it. (Most people fall in line) My instincts are pretty good. I can think of about 6 options for the poll. ??♀️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ lpskier Posted October 23, 2021 Baller_ Share Posted October 23, 2021 @BS74 Read the “Dear Colleague” letter issued by the Department of Education to all colleges during the Obama years, essentially saying the females that claim to have been sexually abused on campus are to be believed unless the male proves himself innocent. Obviously an impossible standard. https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/sites/default/files/dear_colleague_sexual_violence.pdf I’m not advocating in favor of Safe Sport’s policy; I’m just saying it isn’t unique to Safe Sport. Lpskier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller BK Posted October 24, 2021 Baller Share Posted October 24, 2021 Hey fellas, been gone from AWSA for four year but just rejoined! Super excited to ski some tournaments, maybe watch a video or two What’d I miss!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller thager Posted October 24, 2021 Baller Share Posted October 24, 2021 Nothing...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted October 24, 2021 Administrators Share Posted October 24, 2021 @Mrs_MS ok create the poll Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ The_MS Posted November 4, 2021 Author Baller_ Share Posted November 4, 2021 Make sure to do the USAWS membership survey and mention that Safe Sport sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller scoke Posted November 4, 2021 Baller Share Posted November 4, 2021 HUH. just received a USAWATERSKI membership survey. Scrolling through the questions, it seems like the core of the survey is regarding safeport and priorities of the organization. Funny timing? In the words of a man who had something stolen from him in 2020, "Everything woke goes to $hit over time." I'll stand on my prediction of day 1 Q1-2022 being interesting for the membership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller MDB1056 Posted November 4, 2021 Baller Share Posted November 4, 2021 The organization will continue. This all will fade to black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dthate Posted November 4, 2021 Members Share Posted November 4, 2021 Reminds me of that old Johnny Paycheck song back in the day, " take this mandate and shove it, ain't skiing here no more" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted November 4, 2021 Administrators Share Posted November 4, 2021 Yesterday I drove my second grade daughter and 2 of her classmates to a field trip. The school only asked for my drivers license and car insurance. I did think much of it until I realized I was driving around with someone else’s kids. I would not be happy if some random parent who I do not know was driving my daughter around. From this perspective I see some value in what safe sport requires of us. Background checks and defined boundaries ( the training ) just cant be a bad thing. No I do not love the mandates and no it will not prevent evil people from doing evil things but it is a layer of protection. Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted November 4, 2021 Baller_ Share Posted November 4, 2021 @horton . Would that rule apply to someone that met all said requirement items and passed but was the worst driver? Shouldn’t you have the school mandate some kind of drivers testing?. Is the route to the destination free from and cleared of hazards ahead of time along with other crap drivers not on that route? The likelihood of your daughter getting in a car crash from a parent u don’t know far, and I mean far, exceeds that of sexual misconduct. It’s either a poor comparison or you’ll be getting with her school board and getting those driving lessons mandated. And what if it wasn’t a strange dad driving her but rather just another mom? Would you feel the same?. Maybe only moms should drive her??. Sexual misconduct by a female must be minute in comparison to males. Asking for a friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ The_MS Posted November 4, 2021 Author Baller_ Share Posted November 4, 2021 I would not let @Horton drive @Mrs_MS around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted November 4, 2021 Administrators Share Posted November 4, 2021 Ok nevermind... after reading @wish's post I remembered why I have ignored this thread. Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted November 4, 2021 Baller_ Share Posted November 4, 2021 damn...was kinda shootn for a Panda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ The_MS Posted November 5, 2021 Author Baller_ Share Posted November 5, 2021 Why can’t we just report things to the police? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted November 5, 2021 Administrators Share Posted November 5, 2021 Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller dave2ball Posted November 5, 2021 Baller Share Posted November 5, 2021 @Horton no there tomottos not tomatoes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller RAWSki Posted November 5, 2021 Baller Share Posted November 5, 2021 @Horton is there an official BOS Panda Scoreboard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ForrestGump Posted November 9, 2021 Baller Share Posted November 9, 2021 There should be! Who would be at the top? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ The_MS Posted November 9, 2021 Author Baller_ Share Posted November 9, 2021 I have requested answers here and through eMails on why international skiers are not required and have no response Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted November 9, 2021 Administrators Share Posted November 9, 2021 @The_MS You're saying that international skiers do not have to take safe sport? Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ The_MS Posted November 9, 2021 Author Baller_ Share Posted November 9, 2021 That is the info I have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted November 9, 2021 Administrators Share Posted November 9, 2021 @The_MS well then all you have to do is show your Canadian passport and you're good. problem solved. Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Ali Posted November 10, 2021 Baller Share Posted November 10, 2021 @The_MS I will give you a very simple one, not every one speaks english. Though maybe Catherine Tate could help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ The_MS Posted November 10, 2021 Author Baller_ Share Posted November 10, 2021 I guess skiers that dont speak English are more trustworthy around kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller LeonL Posted November 11, 2021 Baller Share Posted November 11, 2021 I think someone posted that (SafeSport not required for international skiers) on this thread. On BOS somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ The_MS Posted November 11, 2021 Author Baller_ Share Posted November 11, 2021 I see they wasted a whole page in the latest Waterskier talking up SS. Looks like they made up 4-5 quotes from members on how great the program is. I guess they ignored my comments from the survey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller markn Posted November 11, 2021 Baller Share Posted November 11, 2021 Agree with @The_MS. Took the time to explain my concerns about SS mandate on the survey....response? Crickets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller mcskier41 Posted November 11, 2021 Baller Share Posted November 11, 2021 I am not against the SS course. Only against them mandating it. What ever happened to personal responsibility and people actually spending time with their kids. Waterskiing brings families together and creates a stronger family bond than any other sport I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller MrJones Posted November 11, 2021 Baller Share Posted November 11, 2021 I responded to the survey. Received a response telling me how wrong I was. Thanks for that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller scuppers Posted November 11, 2021 Baller Share Posted November 11, 2021 These constant mandates are a bad omen for our way of life in the USA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller LeonL Posted November 12, 2021 Baller Share Posted November 12, 2021 Let's pursue this thing about international skiers being exempt from the SafeSport requirement. What's the rationale for that? Who made that call? @klindy or @JeffSurdej or somebody? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ lpskier Posted November 12, 2021 Baller_ Share Posted November 12, 2021 @Horton I definitely would not be comfortable with you driving my daughter around. Of course she’s 30, married and a month shy of her due date…. Lpskier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller JeffSurdej Posted November 12, 2021 Baller Share Posted November 12, 2021 @LeonL I did not know that to be true so I am verifying b/c that does not seem fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ lpskier Posted November 12, 2021 Baller_ Share Posted November 12, 2021 @LeonL @klindy is Chair of AWSA and @JeffSurdej was President of AWSA. SS is a USAWSWS requirement. Better get the correct whipping horse. Lpskier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller JeffSurdej Posted November 12, 2021 Baller Share Posted November 12, 2021 @LeonL All active members will have to do the training – foreign or not. If they are a “guest member” – e.g. like we did with some foreign skiers for Worlds who are only skiing that one event b/c we need them to be members for the insurance that is sanctioned by USA-WSWS like World’s were then no. Guest members no since they are only participating for a day or two – all active members yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller markn Posted November 12, 2021 Baller Share Posted November 12, 2021 @JeffSurdej ...kind of like the vaccine being selectively mandated only for companies with over 100 employees. Glad the virus can count and no potential for SS infractions if only "a guest" skiing one or two days. This whole SS mandate gets worse and worse as more information is made available. More convinced than ever...I'm out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ The_MS Posted November 12, 2021 Author Baller_ Share Posted November 12, 2021 I guess we can trust them for just a day. If I remain a member I would plan on only skiing 2 events. That’s the same as those guys. Maybe we mandate by days spent at events. They are actually on site at the worlds for 5 to 6 days depending on practice. It’s only 90 minutes of training, why can’t they find the time to complete? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skierjp Posted November 12, 2021 Baller Share Posted November 12, 2021 They come and ski for the day at worlds but practice here for a month prior to the tournament! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ The_MS Posted November 12, 2021 Author Baller_ Share Posted November 12, 2021 The 3 event skiers are on site all week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller JeffSurdej Posted November 12, 2021 Baller Share Posted November 12, 2021 I see both sides, I personally am not a fan of mandating this across the board, but I also understand the reasoning as one incident could shut down the organization for good. I would hate to have to make 30 guest members who come out for a ski for fun to learn about the sport go through SS. So maybe the real problem is that skiers can ski at worlds as guest members, but that's an IWWF thing, they mandate that a federation can not force skiers coming to ski worlds buy the membership. I'd be curious how many here at worlds have never competed in a US tourney and thus actually used the guest membership but I get the point, anyone can violate safesport even for 1 day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ The_MS Posted November 12, 2021 Author Baller_ Share Posted November 12, 2021 I wonder where the “if it prevents just one” crowd is now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jayski Posted November 12, 2021 Baller Share Posted November 12, 2021 @JeffSurdej you say "I also understand the reasoning as one incident could shut down the organization for good" Now not saying this in a grumpy, accusing, or negative way, it is an inquisitive question... So how does everyone taking safe sport STOP, not inhibit, or decrease the possibility of, STOP, the organization from getting shut down for good? If we all take it does that mean we (USAwaterski) is now exempt or protected from any actions that would cause complete shut down if an incident occured? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ The_MS Posted November 12, 2021 Author Baller_ Share Posted November 12, 2021 @LLUSA ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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