Brooke Baldwin's on side turn mechanics - What do you see?

[Horton]

The first 15 seconds of the video is the guys talking. Then Brooke starts her ride. The video should start at about the 58 minute mark.

 

[ForrestGump]

Man, I really like the way she skis. It's been years since I saw her run a pass. She's got a really pronounced rise up over the center of the ski in the glide out to the buoy, then she drops her hip to the inside over the buoy. But she does it without squatting. A lot of people make that hip drop and accompany it with a knee bend. But she does it with that really tall posture.

[lakeaustinskier]

Being 55 and having some back and body issues I've been trying to change my skiing. No more old school blaze into the the turn and crank it. My body simply can't take it.

 

She's doing exactly what I've trying to work on - set the load, then hold it (NO additional load - just ride the line).

 

Then going into the turn stand tall - which means she is balanced over the ski which results in the ski keeping speed.

 

 

[BobF]

For me, it's how she drops the handle down at release, the leaves it there and skis out and around, then back to that handle position. Good stuff.

[Live2ski]

I see someone who’s “relationship with the course” is on point - No “muscling it” and “overpulling” means she’s using the boat so that her speed equalises with the boat at the right time to turn.

If you’re at the correct speed and width at the bouy the rest is “style points”.

[matthewbrown]

She delays the tail smear for as long as possible, by staying tall and centered and keeping her ski flat ,which allows her to stay on the handle path a split second longer and keeps her from getting over extended too early. This allows her to get a little higher on the boat and more importantly leaves her in a great position to initiate the turn. With her final turning move she keeps her body centered on the ski and on the path to the buoy but points her ski further out toward the shore. Now her body is leading the charge out of the turn, and the ski will follow. This leaves a wide range of flexibility in the actual turning movement. She still rocks back a little too much at the end of that turn and could use to work more to the inside, but even then because of her great positioning it doesn’t hurt her much until the line gets really short. This is what Nate does so well.

[Horton]

@matthewbrown nailed it. My skiing will never look like Brooke's but her approach into on-side is the template that I'm trying to copy. It took numerous phone calls with Matt, @TFIN & @AdamCord before I really understood these mechanics and then a number of months of trying to figure out how to apply it. I still have a long ways to go.

[skibug]

I think another huge factor in all of this is the connection, angle, and speed generated from 1 ball to 1st wake (for RFF), that is where it all truly starts. You can't get to where she gets to in the course unless you can get that connection and acceleration into the first wake, prior to pre-turn for your onside. Sort of a domino effect.

[jjackkrash]

My old-school head hurts; the "new" techniques seem so counter to how I thought things worked when I learned the course a couple hundred years ago. Now I have a pretty good idea why my back and hips always hurt and why I never progressed that far down the line.

 

For better or worse at least my boy gets it and looks better than I ever did with less than a year of course work under his belt.

[skiep]

Brooke and Landon Geels stayed at Lake 38 the week after the Masters one of those day's Brook ran 2@ 41 OTD!

[RGilmore]

As for the handle "twist" move that initiated this thread, Chris Parrish also does (or "used to did") this move into this onside turn.

[Horton]

@RGilmore and handle twist is irrelevant. I suppose it is some tiny tweak but the big picture is the relationship between her hips, handle and feet.

[Spencer_Shultz]

 

As a fellow LFF, I’ve been studying Brooke. Setup in the pre turn is amazing.

 

[UWSkier]

Her pre-turn always looks strange to me. Like her shoulders are farther forward than her hips. Suppose with a female physique where the COM is naturally lower, this actually helps her load the front of the ski, but I feel like if I try that, my hips ain't coming through the turn the way I want them to.

[Przybyla]

 

Matteo and Marcus have a pretty good video out where they discuss Brooke's skiing.

[RGilmore]

@Horton

Just touching on what @Gloersen mentioned. And who's to say using the right hand to drive the handle vertical doesn't contribute to the overall result? The alternate theory would have to be that it's just an odd, inconsequential habit... right?

[Wish]

The handle turn is not totally irrelevant. I use it and have mentioned it to other skiers that tend to release the handle too soon killing upswing speed and width. It delays the release by “doing” something with the handle. It’s a tool but far from the overall picture here and insightful comments being mentioned. Cool thing is if it doesn’t work for you, simply don’t do it. But it just might keep you connected to the up swing longer then u a usually would. Heard of squeezing handle as well.

[Horton]

What I think Brooke does better than almost any other skier is the following

 

1) From the center line out to the ball line she stands near vertical with her feet almost directly under her mass. This puts the ski near flat on the water which makes it lower drag and helps her swing up farther on the boat.

 

2) She keeps the handle as close to her hips as far out as possible.

 

These 2 things mean that when it is time for her to begin to rotate - the line is rock tight and her mass is centered over her feet so the nose of the ski is ready to be engaged. All she has to do is feed the handle out and the ski will roll away. The inside bevel is already in the water so - as soon as the ski is done rolling out it will automatically pull back under the line.

 

@matthewbrown describes this a delaying the smear and some such. See above. Different words exactly the same ideas.

 

@wish @RGilmore @Gloersen

If you work on doing the above without the handle twist you will still be redefining the fundamentals of your on side turn. If you adapt the handle twist without the rest it might help your skiing but not at a core fundamental movement. The handle twist might be a thing but it is off in the weeds. In my mind it is superfluous to this conversation.

 

[Wish]

@Horton. Sort of agree. But, what are some of your other suggestions for accomplishing 1 and 2 in your descriptions. It’s one thing to say what someone is doing, it’s another to translate that into meaningful... do this do that..to accomplish 1 and 2 from skier to skier. I think the “handle twist” or doing something with the handle before the release is a way to keep the handle close..longer. And in turn, that can keep the weight forward as well. Stand tall and keep handle close may not work for everyone. But I would certainly start there.

 

[Horton]

@wish I very much like to separate mechanics from application. It is the mechanics Matt and I are describing.

 

Feet underneath you means right to left and front to back. If you are tall on your ski you are more forward than most. You are centered.

 

No one in the modern era skis better by rolling the ski out early or letting the handle out early. Those are common mechanics but they are unquestionably detrimental to the skier.

 

How to actually do it on the water is it different conversation. I have been working all this year at not letting my shoulders move towards the pylon at edge change, keeping my head as high off the water/ feet under my mass out to the ball line and keeping the handle tight and two hands on the handle as long as possible. If you saw me ski lately you would see much better on-side turns. I look NOTHING like Brooke. She is the template I'm about 1% of the way there.

[LeonL]

I hesitated to make ANY comment as I don't know s**t, but what she does LOOKS like there's no semblance of a preturn. Just rides flat and kinda at the last split second hooks a turn. That's not what's going on, but at first glance that what it looks like. @Horton describes it very accurately and it's foreign to what most of do or even try to do.

[Horton]

@LeonL it took me a long time to wrap my head around it. I watch video of myself ski and I can hardly tell that I'm trying to mimic Brooke. On the other hand since I have tried to move in that direction my outside turns are so much more consistent. As I said above I think I have made a 1% change and it's amazing

[LeonL]

Hey @Horton, thanks for not dropping a panda on me. Just relating what it LOOKS like.

[jimbrake]

Ryan Canepa looks similar to me. Nate, Ryan, and Brooke all appear (to me) to ski similarly. Tall, centered, and not moving to the inside until way up on the boat. Nate's been doing it the longest and has it down, obviously.

[georgea0731]

From a novice skier, 15 off, a few 22s at 32, I see her on side turn and the nose of the ski seems to hoop up then settles back down at a great position/angle. I recently went to a local clinic and they told me they could read the brand's name on the bottom of the ski because it was so far out of the water. She rotates your entire body with arms fully extended. Amazing to watch.

[DaveD]

Has anyone mentioned (too lazy to read the entire thread again) the "hitch" she has between the edge change and turn where she breaks forward at the waste and then stands back up? Watching her run into 41 at Stillwater a few minutes ago, it was quite pronounced on every line length at every turn. I'm assuming she's doing this on purpose and has been doing this all season. Any idea what she's trying to do with that movement?

[gavski]

That isn’t a hitch….that is how she re-centres herself over her feet before the handle release…