Is it OK to use #8 sheetmetal screws in epoxy for a D3 rear boot temporarily ?

[swbca]

With an XLarge rear open-toe D3 T-Factor boot, if you have a size 12 foot, it requires adding inserts for the rear boot to get the front T-Factor at 30" or less. So I need to move the rear binding .25" further back than the factory inserts in the 67" D3 ski. I am at a remote location for a week so I don't have inserts on hand. So is there a problem with Sheetmetal screws in epoxy. I will be able to use the same holes for the inserts later.

 

It looks like it might be possible to move the T-Factor rubber and fittings back on the T-Factor plate 1/4" but it looks complicated.

[jnan66]

If possible drill extra holes in the binding plate

[swbca]

No - there is no place to drill at the front of the plate. The XLarge T-Factor rear plate is about 1.5" shorter than size 12

[jnan66]

There might be no reinforcement in the ski for the insert in a new location. Can you make an adapter plate?

[The_MS]

No

[Skoot1123]

I’m my opinion that is asking for a disaster. Plus there is the chance you would ruin the ski for future use. Just my opinion though.

[eleeski]

Decades ago, every binding was mounted with #8 stainless sheetmetal screws. I always test my mount position on a new design with sheetmetal screws. There is nothing wrong with stainless sheetmetal screws, performance wise - especially for a short time.

 

With that said, modern skis are designed with reinforcements in specific places. It is best to use the factory inserts.

 

An option is the Goode style velcro. Not for a release system but it works great as an attachment if you have a couple screws to hold it in place.

 

If you can find some G10 material or some blank aluminum, you could build a custom plate that would place the binding exactly where you want it using the factory holes. Or redrill the existing plate to move it on those. I've also often had to grind down the ends of the plates to get the clearance or spacing I want. Working on the plates is often the best and easiest way to place your bindings. You end up with a system that can migrate to another ski as an added benefit.

 

One last consideration, with large feet, moving bindings back might work against the performance of the ski. The 30" number probably came from someone with smaller feet. I'd certainly ski a few sets at whatever setting fits your bindings on the ski before drilling new holes back of stock. Take this with a grain of salt - I like my bindings an inch in front of stock (and I have sheetmetal screw mounted bindings on factory skis forward).

 

Eric

[jayski]

Geez, used to do this all the time in Goode's when they didn't have inserts, never had an issue...

[swbca]

I could make an adaptor plate. Counter-Sink machine screws on the bottom face of the adaptor plate with acorn nuts on top of the T-Factor plate . . or is there a better way ?

[Stevie Boy]

@swbca WHAT !!! There are holes underneath the plate, I actually ended up drilling and conter sinking new holes, you would have to reposition the foot pad.

I had to do this to try another ski fortunately it still positioned on the ski I was using after I binned the demo ski.

Any extra holes and your warranty are gone, have you ever heard the phrase.

Shouldn,t Of Done That !

[ALPJr]

I’d call D3 or your retailer before using non-standard screws or making any new holes in the ski.

[swbca]

@eleeski I have already established that 29 1/4" skis better than 30" but my rear foot is jammed into the front boot. Just looking for the best way to get some room to move the rear boot.

[eleeski]

@swbca Fair enough. Put the front boot exactly where you want it. The rear boot should be able to move by drilling new holes in the plate. At least the rearmost screws should be good with the inserts and a new hole in the plate (this is structurally most critical so do not drill new holes in the ski there). If you miss on the front inserts, it's a bit more of an issue.

 

Silicone seal can glue the plate down effectively (it's a bit of a pain to remove but possible with a razor). Goode velcro as well. If you try these tricks, do get a washer or strap over both plates from the insert (which should be at the back of your front boot plate - another hole in the plate?) and keep the rear plate from peeling up. Kind of an easy makeshift adapter but it is in addition to the glue or velcro.

 

Putting a stainless sheetmetal screw for the front screw might be easier.

 

Holes in the binding plate are OK. I Nascar drill lightening holes all over my plates. Use a fender washer if your new holes are too close to old holes. Drilling in the plate is usually fine.

 

Note that I like a fairly tight front/rear spacing. If you do drill a front (of rear) screw, build in some adjustability.

 

The main thing is to get a ski and binding setup you like - not the resale value.

 

Eric

[swbca]

@eleeski Thanks for your feedback. In addition to the sticky connections you mentioned, I have used the heavy duty - exterior 3m 2 side tape on many projects. After a day or so, its almost impossible to separate objects. If I used some good sized patches of that along with inserts I add, the inserts would never see the tensile loads if the machine screws were not overly-tight. Plus the front screws on the rear boot rarely see much tensile load.

[BraceMaker]

Not your ski builder - but I've been using FM and MOB bindings for a long time - both of these systems have always required additional inserts. With the FM I would add 2 more in front of the front bindings (trick ski pattern) and 2 more behind the rearmost inserts for the spring release. For the MOB I add 2 more in front beside the release body.

 

I have never had a ski fail through those inserts. I use the method the old FM manual describes - small pilot hole, then I use a dental style dremel burr to open that up, I fill that hole with epoxy mixed with filler, then redrill into that and tap in my insert.

 

This is not a factory recommended method but does work.

 

 

[Keith_Menard]

YOU SAVAGE!!!

 

use drywall screws.

[DW]

@swbca - before you assume little tensile load on binding screws, take a look at the rear plate. Not sure on D3 plates, for me Animal plates actually bow upward between the front and rear attachment screws, hence implying a tensile load on the fasteners. Certainly the rear screws see that. As commented above, sheet metal screws have been successfully used to mount binding plates in both aluminum topped and carbon topped skis, lots of older Goode's done that way. A typical insert requires a substrate below the skin surface, a sheet metal screw can rely on the top sheet for retention so observe what the screws are going in to as a deciding factor if you decide to then go to inserts, which I am guessing you already know.

I think the T shirt says Duct Tape fixes everything ... :D

[swbca]

@DW I only commented on limited tensile load when an adhesive product was the primary connector of the plate to the ski. The mechanical connector was a backup. I have built laminated metal structures layered with water proof heavy duty double sided tapes. Almost impossible to separate after a heat cycle or cure time. I would trust them to hold a binding on but it would be too difficult to remove the binding and I don't know if the top layer of resin on the ski would separate first. Probably not.

 

Regarding Sheetmetal screws; it sounds like everyone uses an epoxy that's forced into the foam core acting as a solid plug below the skin of the ski. I have only done this on the front screws of rear bindings since the top skin doesn't have much structure compared to earlier metal topped skis. Plus the foam in modern skis doesn't have much density and can't be expected to hold a screw. That why I wouldn't use screws with epoxy on the back of a boot.

 

Regarding this post . . . . I just moved the rear T-Factor on my ski moved back a little so my foot isn't jammed into the front binding. I was able to use the factory inserts in the rear and used Sheetmetal screws with epoxy in the front. I will switch to inserts in the front when I get back to my shop. The inserts will be imbedded in epoxy.

 

Thanks for your comments.

[BraceMaker]

if

 

 

If the yellowing is a sign I used this D3 with 4 extra inserts for 7 years.

[BraceMaker]

From brand new it had those inserts. Very muxh DIYAYOR