Issues with slalom course and neighbor

[Ckloves2ski]

First time poster. Love BOS. Reaching out for some advice. We live on a small private lake in Florida. Our lake has had a slalom course on it for about thirty years with no problems. A couple of years ago someone moved onto the lake and decided it was an opportunity to them to make money on the course. Everyone started noticing heavy traffic on the course and then we discovered our neighbor had a Facebook page and a website where you could pay him for a pull on the lake. You could schedule appt times and even pay through credit card. The lake owners confronted the person and he swore it was just for friends and took down the website, but the pay to pull is still happening and he has a ski club as well. We are pretty sure he is not insured and does not have an LLC for his ski club. Now he has ticked off several of the lake owners who are actively working to remove the course. The lake owners are worried about liability issues should someone get hurt. He is ruining the course for those of us who do not want it taken down and have been skiing on it for years. Any thoughts?

[MDB1056]

If a "private lake" I'm assuming there are covenants for the owners etc. If not already in there I'd think it fairly easy for the association to vote in language that precludes use of the private lake for profit. If the course has been there forever without issue you of course want to preserve it. Folks shouldn't panic and pull it. Rather shut down the problem resident. Seems there's always one or two eventually showing up everywhere unfortunately.

[skierjp]

If someone turns him into the county and he doesn’t have the proper insurance or business license they will shut him down. If they are not a contributor to the course fund maybe a few buoys could be removed so he couldn’t ski it! One call to law enforcement will also work. I don’t think the

lake owners would be liable but possibly the name on the permit may be. If there is no permit you may be in for a up hill battle. The course can be grandfathered in but you will need proof of it’s existence for the past 30 years. You better get screen shots of the Facebook page for documentation.

[BS74]

If it's just a lake with access only for home owners, then the HOA has nothing to do with it. If you have a community boat ramp then that is the only liability and I'm sure the HOA has insurance for it. I lived in this situation and we only insured liability for ramp. If it's a man made lake on private property, then different story. In FL, no one owns the water, the state does. If it's not permitted then get one, probably grand fathered in. If your trouble maker is being paid, then he would need a business license, so report him to the county.

[dvskier]

The IRS may also be interested in your neighbors non reported income.

[JDskiNECA]

I think state by state and county by county the laws may be different. Zoning and business license may be needed and purchased to be running a business along with insurance as a water ski school/what ever it is. Usually very expensive and highly regulated. If this person has shut down his advertising maybe now he just has friends that buy gas and beer. Who knows if he is not going to be honest about it.

 

If there were not rules regulating business when he purchased the property you may have to live with his choice of how he chooses to use the lake. The little bit I know about this type of small private lake living situations is that most have rules with purchase. However, what I have seen occur is that the community communicates amongst them selves and not everybody is always going to be completely happy.

 

Sometimes peoples work schedules dictate when they will use the course. If house -A is throwing a party and will be teaching kids or others to ski they should communicate Email that they will be on the water on a specific date with their planned hours on the water with no more than one hour sessions at a time if others want to ski that day also. The party throwing people need to be observant of the other home owners that may want to use the course. Being observant of others wishing to use the course is key, it is not all about YOU for the all about me generation.

 

If house -B has a few solid skiers they should be ready to jump out and get their sets in while house -A is off the water snacking or rotating people and gear. If no one else is using the lake be a good neighbor and don't try to control your neighbor. Good fences make good neighbors. Keep out of others business. The people I know that live on this type of setting are professionals in the skiing world and some have websites that don't necessarily advertise pay for skiing. But lessons are taught on these waters and the community tries to schedule their time on the water and they are observant that other home owners have a right to ski prior to any lesson or party being thrown.

 

You live in an amazing setting and still have control issues? Relax. If the guy is that big of a jerk every time he has customers get the rest of the home owners boats on the water and get in line to run the ski course and obstruct his business. Make it a hassle for him and his clients so he gets the massage. And being in Florida you could start the rumor about the Alligator that moved into the lake.

 

Just my 2 cents

[MitchellM]

This kind of story gives me a bad feeling since I'm actively looking to buy a house on a lake in central florida for skiing. It really stinks that you have this home with a longstanding course which is now in jeopardy due to the actions of just one fellow homeowner. Resist having that course pulled up and see if you can talk some sense into the guy who is running his business venture on your shared residential lake.

 

I was persuaded to avoid buying a home on a lake in Winter Haven by two fellow homeowners. Seems a new owner was starting a ski school on their lake and traffic through the courses was out of control. One of them actually decided to move away to another lake just because their skiing access was ruined.

[2Valve]

On our private lake, outsiders can't launch their boats as we have a gate requiring a pass-code. If your lake has the same restriction, turn him in. Maybe they can revoke his access privileges. If he's using his boat, then I'd make sure some or all of the buoys were removed after skiing.

 

This is why we love our Wally Sinker course. It disappears when we're done.

 

A-holes like that need to be put in the corner, before he thinks he's a pro body builder filling cavities, running tournament's on the lake and rigging up some cabling to narrow the buoys for his personal passes.

 

I'm sure that's never happened before, but there's always a first. :)

[OldboyII]

Any recreational piece of land which is bigger than tennis court, sooner or later goes out of control and brings a problems. Unless it is by 100% yours. Or, as an option, is located on your private island )))

[Joeprunc]

I like @JDskiNECA advice....and if all else fails replace 4 ball with this

 

[skierjp]

@Joeprunc most skiers in Florida understand alligators and are nor afraid of them. Tourist, that’s a different story lol.

[ScottScott]

People that live on private lakes with courses become popular people with their friends, and just about any friend that comes to ski (and wants to continue coming to ski) will contribute money for gas. I can't imagine there would be any injury liability issues for other lakefront homeowners if one homeowner brings friends out and gets injured. What information do you have to suggest they are profiting as opposed to just getting gas money contributed. Is there any information regarding this ski club?

[TEL]

Hey guys I think it's me she is talking about me. Cindy, I am not running a ski school or pay by pull I have ski friends over to ski. Sundays from 9am -11am only run longer when you are in the course with your paddle board. We wait till you are clear of the course before we resume. Tom

[Broussard]

 

[dave2ball]

@TEL and @Ckloves2ski if this is the case this thread should end and take care of this between you to.

[Wish]

Edit...agree with @dave2balls

[ScottScott]

kinda odd that someone comes out of no-where, 1st post, no info given in profile (no boat or anything,) not even any other comments, and wants to complain about a neighbor. Shouldn't have been brought here in the 1st place.

[Krav]

I can understand its good to get information on ski/lake issues and BOS is a great forum for comments

 

In this case, I recommend to have neighbor talk to neighbor to work out the issues and coordinate lake times for all to enjoy.

 

I live and have been enjoying skiing, boarding, tubing with family and friends on the same referenced lake for over 24 years.. It’s why I bought the lake house. It’s an awesome place….

 

Slalom skiing through coarse is pure JOY……. when you have that perfect pass at 32, 35 and maybe some day at 38 you feel so good….Just keeps you coming back for more.

 

Onward ski lovers

[floridagm]

To the OP.

 

Hi Cindy, my name is Gary and I'm the guy that says hi waves to you from the dock. I'm also the guy that was driving two or three weeks ago when after your paddle board lap you paddled over to the middle course and sat down on your paddle board while we were waiting at the end of the course. We simply waited patiently until your tantrum was over and went on about our set and then waved and said hello the next week when you paddleboarded by.

 

It's fantastic that you like to ski and that you found BOS, a wealth of knowledge here when you ask for opinions on a fact based issue. Your insinuation here is not one of those. We have been skiing as a group of friends at Tom's for several years now. It's not a pay to ski situation, as a matter of fact, 8 or so of us friends that may or may not come on any given weekend (usually 4 or 5), more than half of us have our own boats and our own sites that we ski at when our Sunday group doesn't get together. This isn't a business that requires insurance or zoning or governmental approval or even your approval, we are a group of friends that enjoys skiing. We also go out to dinner as a group. We go to concerts as a group. We go to ski tournements to participate or cheer one of ski group friends on. We go to each others houses for house parties, we know each others kids and significant others. When Tom was in the hospital recently after his ski crash, one of us went to the hospital everyday to be with him and resupply him with Diet Coke.

 

It's fantastic that you want to ski, come out and join us. You would be up next in the rotation if you just pull your boat out of the boathouse, if you don't have a driver, wave us down and I'll bet Tom would be happy to give you a pull. Chris, your neighbor a few doors down would probably give you a pull also and that would make three homeowners that use the course. Any slalom skier would say the only thing better than 3 homeowners using the course is 4 homeowners using the course. And yes, having other ski friends to ski with makes the experience that much better. I'm betting that if you hang around here on BOS you'll see other friend groups here that ski together.

 

Your enthusiasm for the sport sounds like it matches ours, your solution of removing the course because we use it on Sunday mornings from 9 till about 11:30 sounds a little like having your feet amputated so you don't get athletes foot.

 

So yes, this topic should never have been posted here, it could be addressed by you picking up the phone and calling Tom, or stopping by the dock on your paddleboard lap, or mentioning the issue at an HOA meeting, but you chose here so here we are.

 

I personally feel like the luckiest guy in the world that this group of amazing people has allowed me to be part of them. They are the nicest, most inclusive, easiest to get along with group of friends with a skiing problem that anyone could hope to meet, maybe if you said hi you'd feel the same way too.

 

See you tomorrow!!

[Wish]

I did edit my post above. Had something similar written. Thought the thread would maybe die or get tossed. Tom was kind enough to invite me out for a few Sundays a while back when my course was down and out. My experience was as mentioned above. Bunch of fun waterski enthusiasts. Felt at home and welcomed. We do the same at my home site. If someone is using the lake we just wait. We wave and say hi. Just yesterday from the boat I yelled to a neighbor to dust off her swivel ski so I can pull her. She waved back and smiled. But when she’s out pontooning we just wave and wait. Ya, I’d suggest taking them up on the offer to ski with them. It’s a good time. ??

[MitchellM]

This is just a few homes on a 45 acre lake. Hard to imagine some like minded skiers cannot work this out amongst themselves. The thought of removing the course breaks my heart.

[Clydesdale]

@floridagm OP mentioned a website to schedule and pay for pull. Did she just make this up to stir the pot? And look at me stirring the pot myself by asking the question. ?

[RGilmore]

What @Clydesdale asked. Inquiring minds want to know.

[jipster43]

Whoa! I just had a dream that someone posted on BOS complaining about a neighbor who was offering pulls at his home site. Dreams can be so surreal!

[floridagm]

@clydesdale @rgilmore Stir on, there's no quieting and inquiring mind!

 

Yes, there was a website. Tom's former girlfriend was a web designer and created a site, it was up for a couple months but has been down for over a year. No pulls were ever given, no money was ever exchanged, no website or site promotion was ever done.

 

Here's the rest of the story. We were trying to figure out a way to do learn to ski days and not have all of us put everything we owned at risk, especially Tom's house. That site was step one in that quest. Pretty quickly we decided the liability couldn't be known or protected against and that structure was abandoned. We changed plans to do the learn to ski days at Lake Ivanhoe in downtown Orlando. It's a public lake with one ramp that is owned by the city. We filled out the paperwork to close the lake for the day by renting the ramp and the little park it's in from the city of Orlando. It's actually very easy to do and was only like a couple of hundred dollars for the day. I don't post here often but if one of you Sherlock Holmes types goes back through my posts you'll see I commented on a post about one of our group that has skied at least once a month for like the last 10 or 11 years and has skied all 7 of the ancient seas. My comment was that she wanted to ski before we had a meeting about skiing. That meeting was the one where we filled out the paperwork and tried to come up with the structure to do a learn to ski day. The city approved our paperwork but the insurance got be a giant rabbit hole and we eventually gave up.

 

Tom did do a learn to ski day for a few of his neighbor's kids at his house. No money was exchanged and that website was not used to do it. I pulled a couple of kids at Lake Ivanhoe that were working on a Boyscout waterski merit badges, one of the moms gave me like $25 and I'm just hoping none of the patriots here turn me into the IRS.

 

We are where we have always been, a great group of ski friends that ski on Sunday mornings between April and October from 9am-11:30ish.

[Clydesdale]

@floridagm great you guys did that for the kids. Don’t get discouraged!

[Shell]

@2Valve can't launch a outside boat? Appears as tho your lakes underpants have been wedged between the cheeks for far to long;)

[2Valve]

@Shell :)

[Stevie Boy]

@Ckloves2ski It's gone all quite over there ?

[Ckloves2ski]

Good afternoon everyone, First, my family owns a Ski Nautique, I have been water skiing since I was eight years old and I while it was my first post, I do believe this forum most certainly is the right place to have this discussion. I did not call out anyone by name and was asking legitimate questions regarding liability and how others would handle the situation. Yes, there was a website and facebook page. Funny how Gary talks in his post about their concerns about liability issues for their skiing endeavors. In this litigious society, unfortunately it is one that comes to the forefront. I have also seen several posts where people talk about how they have their courses insured and who is responsible for the course. Our course is not insured. Second, when your neighbor makes a website and a facebook page promoting his new ski business, why is it so far fetched to think that it may still being going on even though the website was removed. Is it so out the realm of possibility that when the neighbor takes his boat down from the lift in the middle of a work day, pulls someone six times and then goes back in, that the pay to pull may actually still be happening? Third, our lake is small. 42 acres. The course takes up pretty much the entire lake from end to end. I did go into the middle of the ski course on a Sunday morning and sit, but only after I was trying to cross the lake, when the boat was at the other end of the course, and I had to quickly back paddle because you did not patiently wait to let me cross. Yes, I was upset. This has been done to me at least three times and I am not the first person who has complained about nearly being run over by the Sunday morning skiers or who have been told to get off the lake because they were skiing. The blatant disregard for others is what has now become the problem. Also, that same Sunday, you had at least ten people skiing and it went on for four solid hours, that is about 66 pulls back and forth. So yeah, you can probably see why the neighbors' patience has worn out. But no worries, I can see that as a tax paying homeowner on this lake, I will need to coordinate my ski and paddleboard time with the Sunday morning skiers. I will be sure to let all the other lake owners know as well that Sundays mornings are not for them! (eye roll). Great way to promote the sport.

[UWSkier]

Wow...

[scuppers]

Wow nothing! Who is paying the lake front property tax and who is not?

[liquid d]

Lighten up all...there are 3 sides to every story.

[Wish]

? liability insurance for having a “learn to ski day” with total strangers and covering your boat and property is diff then what if one of my buddies that’s been skiing here regularly gets hurt while skiing the course. I’m guessing you never have anyone over to ski for fear of being sued if someone gets hurt?? If so you’re choice. Not a lawyer but the lake owners in my mind have ZERO to worry about when it comes to being a responsable party to that injury. So why the fuss over liability? Seems like that’s a better question for a lawyer not BOS.

 

And yes, no better way to promote the sport then a “learn to ski day” ...period. I’d do one in a heart beat but won’t for the same reason

 

If you’re feeling your time on the water is limited by Tom, I’d say that’s between you and him. You live on a lake that is not owned by any of the lake owners.

 

Years ago on any given weekend for many years I dealt with 8-10 jet skis buzzing our lake for hours and hours on end (2 stroke jets skis...loud). Same small lake as u in FL with no public access. Both Sat and Sun..all day. And they used my course as an obstacle course. Would knock buoys off every weekend. I would have paid cash money if the jet skiers were only out Sun morning. And do you know what I did about it aside from having a pleasant conversation to express my concerns??...nothing. Because there’s nothing that could be done. Most neighbors hated it. But, I found time to ski with a lake and a boat in my backyard...blessed

 

You live on a lake that’s set up perfectly for skiing. I’ve skied it. You have approximately 59 outa 63 hours of daylight a week to ski, paddle board, swim or whatever outside of Sun morning (which you could ski with that group as u have been invited to do so). Most would consider that a blessing and envy what you have.

 

I’d say let go of the frustration...not worth it. Just enjoy every moment u get on the water.

 

You’re welcome to come ski with me Sun morning. No jet skis anymore. ?

[ScottScott]

I'll amend @Wish 's comments slightly. There is no reason a paddle board can't exist on a lake the same time as people skiing the course. You have 63 hours of daylight a week to paddle board. And as Wish mentioned...even on those 4 hours sunday mourning's, I'm sure there would be no issue as a homeowner on the lake working themselves into priority rotation among the skiers visiting Tom's.

 

If someone took off down the course while you were crossing the other end paddle boarding, i'm sure that was an accident and they didn't see you, or felt you would have passed across the drop area by the time they got there. but once they got closer i'm sure they would have done what they needed to do to avoid you.

[Jody_Seal]

@liquid d

I know right ? Surprised it two pages .

 

 

Hey y'all think about mr Jay and Ann and Kate and all the rest of the ski community that is being impacted by a major hurricane comming on shore with Baton Rouge in the target zone right now.

 

 

Let the petty crap go!

[Wish]

@Jody_Seal

.

mic drop

[BraceMaker]

An old saying comes to mind

 

If you can't beat em, join em. If the complaint is that someome else skis alot ask to ski with them. Don't paddleboard during their ski in the course.

 

 

[TEL]

Just going to say, Cindy or any other person that lives on the lake has yet to contact me. Cindy I am inviting you to come by next Sunday to meet my friends, bring your husband and anyone else that lives on the lake to talk this out. Yes I ski sometimes during the week normally with Chris that lives on the lake. When we ski the time it takes to let my boat down or Chris to lower his boat come pick each other up ski and put our boats away is about 30 mins. We do this about two times during the week. I work out of my house I go to my office once a week in Jacksonville, I will be happy to discuss any thing else you want to know about me or my life I am an open book to you. This might surprise you because you don't know me very well, I am an easy going person. We live in Florida on a beautiful lake, life is good there is no reason to be complaining lets work this out.

 

[skierjp]

I don’t think it’s the skier that’s complaining. It’s supposedly the non skier home owners that are complaining. If that’s true the course skiers have more to lose then the lakefront non skiing home owners. Think about it, if you don’t ski and you have boats running up and down the lake for 4 or 5 hours how would you like it?

Kind of like Wish and the jet skiers. The jet skiers have nothing to lose but the slalom course owner has everything to lose.

The non skiing home owners sound like they are pulling the lawsuit card. Probably wouldn’t work but if they have more time and funds lookout!

 

[BrianKennedy91]

What lake is this discussion about?

[BrianKennedy91]

What lake was this discussion about?

[LeonL]

I think it's sad that people can't get along. Obviously I side with the skiers, but what @skierjp said is true. Without going back to page one, I think I read that the lake is 45 acres. Seems like there should be enough room for everyone if only a little common sense and courtesy are applied.

[BrianKennedy91]

Does anyone know what lake the discussion is talking about?

[LeonL]

@BrianKennedy91 I guess no one wants to share that info with the masses.

[2Valve]

@Ckloves2ski

"Good afternoon everyone, First, my family owns a Ski Nautique, I have been water skiing since I was eight years old and I while it was my first post, I do believe this forum most certainly is the right place to have this discussion. I did not call out anyone by name and was asking legitimate questions regarding liability and how others would handle the situation. Yes, there was a website and facebook page. Funny how Gary talks in his post about their concerns about liability issues for their skiing endeavors. In this litigious society, unfortunately it is one that comes to the forefront. I have also seen several posts where people talk about how they have their courses insured and who is responsible for the course. Our course is not insured. Second, when your neighbor makes a website and a facebook page promoting his new ski business, why is it so far fetched to think that it may still being going on even though the website was removed. Is it so out the realm of possibility that when the neighbor takes his boat down from the lift in the middle of a work day, pulls someone six times and then goes back in, that the pay to pull may actually still be happening? Third, our lake is small. 42 acres. The course takes up pretty much the entire lake from end to end. I did go into the middle of the ski course on a Sunday morning and sit, but only after I was trying to cross the lake, when the boat was at the other end of the course, and I had to quickly back paddle because you did not patiently wait to let me cross. Yes, I was upset. This has been done to me at least three times and I am not the first person who has complained about nearly being run over by the Sunday morning skiers or who have been told to get off the lake because they were skiing. The blatant disregard for others is what has now become the problem. Also, that same Sunday, you had at least ten people skiing and it went on for four solid hours, that is about 66 pulls back and forth. So yeah, you can probably see why the neighbors' patience has worn out. But no worries, I can see that as a tax paying homeowner on this lake, I will need to coordinate my ski and paddleboard time with the Sunday morning skiers. I will be sure to let all the other lake owners know as well that Sundays mornings are not for them! (eye roll). Great way to promote the sport.

scuppers"

 

I'm confused.

You're on a small, 42 acre lake that's just big enough for a ski course, and you're upset that people are skiing, while you want to paddleboard....on a Sunday morning?

 

We sometimes raise our course during the week, 7am, 12 noon.

We sometimes have visitor's and sometimes they're so appreciative that they offer us gas money. So yeah, that might constitute a "pay to ski" scenario. What's wrong with that?

 

 

 

 

[MISkier]

 

[mike_mapple]

is the above lake which everyone is talking about? If so im very confused about it taking up the whole lake..

[BrianKennedy91]

Does anyone have the guys name and phone number who offers sets? I would like to get with him about coming to ski. Looks like a nice place with not much boat traffic.

[Shell]

@2Valve sometimes we even had visitors that help clean and donate replacement buoys if necessary.