2022 Radar Vapor Boot - long term review

[Horton]

[ALPJr]

Looks and sounds good @Horton. Is it wrapped in Carbitex? Did you run it on a Radar plate or with a mechanical release?

[EFW]

Sometime in December now. Sitting out on a container ship they told me.

[Broussard]

@ALPJr The upper cuff is Carbitex

[RAK]

@Horton How was it attached Radar plate or with a mechanical release?

[B_S]

Might have to get a pair in the Spring!

[ToddK]

@B_S I've seen them setup both ways. Fixed to a Radar plate as well as a Reflex releasable binding.

[Zman]

I would be curious what the experience has been using the new Vapor boot with a releasable binding. Any thoughts from those doing this?

I use the Carbitex boots now, but will be upgrading. Initially, just mounting them to my existing Sequence plate.

[disland]

can someone post a photo of the boot with a reflex release?

[skierjp]

@disland

 

 

[Skiphreak]

Just curious (and forgive me if this question sounds naive), but why wouldn’t Radar make mention (on its website write up) of this being compatible w a release plate, if that was the intent? I ask only because I intend to buy a pair for the spring and would prefer to mount to a release plate.

[disland]

some kind of license, legal thing

 

[Horton]

About release with the new Radar boot

• Radar does not have an agreement with any release manufacturer.

• Reflex has explicitly expressed that they do not endorse the use of unapproved boots with their release and hardware.

 

[jMac]

Hey ballers!

 

I wanted to hop in here quick and share my set up and thoughts, hopefully it can help answer some of the questions/concerns you guys have.

 

I've been on the Vapor boot since May of 2021, I used it in my reflex set up right from the start. I loved the concept of the boot from the beginning because unlike any other hardshell/clip releasable boot on the market it has a solid flat foundation that connects you straight to the plate with a good amount of surface area to steer the ski from. For me this eliminated the need to add bondo to create better contact to the ski.

 

When I started using the boot I really like the way the boot fits, and honestly missed that about vapor boot while I was riding a reflex. Skiing wise, I noticed right away that the cuff is slightly softer than the reflex. I like this because it makes the transition (edge change) out to the buoy smoother feeling. I felt something similar at the buoy as well, I found it much easier to move my mass in the direction I want to go in order to initiate a turn. This together helped me feel a more balanced, and controlled swing out to the buoy as well as a smoother move through the turn and reconnection to the handle.

 

I have a custom rig on my ski, I use a Radar sequence plate and I clamp a reflex plate to it and drill the holes I need for the reflex hardware. I toss some rubber 3M Grip Tape on the plate under the heel and ball of the foot to prevent any potential sliding that happens when you put plastic directly onto a plate.

 

If you want a walk through of my setup you can head to my instagram - jMacSkis and check out the "Vapor Boot" Highlight on my Profile. You can see what I'm talking about and I talk you through my setup.

 

Hope this was helpful!

 

jMac

Here's a photo of my set up:

 

 

[andjules]

Does anyone have a logical or data-based opinion on pros of using this boot in a clip-release vs fixed to a traditional plate?

If on a fixed plate and dependent on the liner releasing, is the new boot any less-safe than in previous years (Radar RS-1/Strada/Vapor bindings)?

Is there some meaningful advantage to using a Reflex clip instead of depending on the liner release, besides the (I think generally unnecessary, right?) desire to over-tighten the boot lacing (which makes liner-release less safe/reliable)?

 

I'm totally open to a better understanding of why I keep seeing this new boot in reflex-style clip-release hardware, but my first impression is it seems like a great way to make your binding setup more expensive, more finicky (and admittedly, look a little cooler on the starting dock). The marketer in me wonders if it's a strategy to go after serious skiers already invested in Reflex ('hey you can snap our better boot into your existing system')?

(Note: if you use the MOB system, I get it, torsional release and all. I'm just asking about normal forward-fall clip-releases like Reflex)

[Broussard]

@andjules I think you tend to see a lot of Reflex (or other snap in binding systems) with a rear toe plate. The common use of the Vapor biding has been double Vapors (Strada, RS1s). I have a feeling you will see a lot of Vapors used with a Silvretta release when paired with a RTP.

[Weappa]

If the liner releases from the shell and the shell releases from the Reflex mechanism, does the shell sink?

[skierjp]

@Weappa Yes the shell would sink. The thought process behind the Reflex release system would be you can over tighten the Boa wheel and bungee so your foot won’t come out of the shell.

[C5Quest]

@Horton Are you running the front boot with the heel cuff screws in or out for for forward flex? Also did you test the rear boot with the heel cuff completely removed? Curious how it compares to the Reflex rear R style half boot.

[Fastguy888]

How does one release from these in a crash? I am running Radar Vector Boa with HRT Rear. I crash often, usually OTF full release as I am re-learning the course and pushing myself. No injuries to-date from binding issues skiing. I like the simplicity, fewer moving parts and consistent way I come out of the Vector Boa vs a Hard Boot - Binding System; however would like a little more connection to the ski, especially now I am skiing into 34 mph. With the new Vapor Boots mounted to a Radar Plate only (no release system like Reflex), does the inner boot slide out in a crash or does your foot come out of both the outer shell and bootie? Seems it would be easy to loose a bootie if it stays on your foot through release and then gets dragged through the water post-release...?

[kc]

@Fastguy888 Vapor boots, whether previous years or the 2022, mounted on Radar plates, are designed, if not over tightened, for the liners/your feet, to slide out of the shell in a significant crash. If the liner were to come off your foot after a release, it would float.

[C5Quest]

@jMac with the slanted back of the new boot where is the recommended measure point for distance from tail? Current vapor boots I use too if the bottom stitches.

[slow]

You will never lose the liner boot. They float plenty high in the water. A lot of OTF doesn’t sound like fun though.

[Deanoski]

one thing to remember a Reflex can prerelease and hurt you or kill you.!

 

reflex is not safer.

 

I will never again ski in a mechanical water ski release binding.

 

Unless there's a new one (made from a real snow ski binding manufacture like Tyrolia Salomon, or Marker)

 

the releases we have now are from 1950 like reflex and MOB very low tech

 

the new Radar boot likes awesome I will be trying one in the spring bolted to the plate!!

[skierjp]

@Deanoski the Reflex style release is by far the most popular release here in Florida. Even among the pros only Nate and maybe a couple others ski a traditional binding. Also most have a rear toe instead of a double boot.

[EFW]

@skierjp >the Reflex style release is by far the most popular release here in Florida.<

Do I have to use Mobile 1 oil? Or wait!! how about this one!! Do I have to use premium gas in my motor??

"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain" THE GREAT OZ HAS SPOKEN!

[Deanoski]

@EFW popular yes low tech yes

 

why

#1no forward pressure springs, or indicator

 

#2 no elasticity in the heel release it is on or off.

 

my advice to friends with Reflex is crank up the spring tension if it release easy on the dock. what do you think will happen when skiing short line?

 

 

most pros crank the spring tension high; a prelease is scary. (A fall like Britney took with no release is just one of the instances I can think of proof they want the performance and don't really care about releasing.

 

food for thought

 

[Horton]

@Deanoski

 

[Horton]

also who is Britney?

[slow]

I think Spears

[DavidN]

#Freebritney - get her off her Reflex release

[Horton]

@DavidN it's so rare that something in this form makes me actually laugh out loud. You got me. Free Britney!

[Deanoski]

@Horton That’s the look of someone that’s does not know what forward pressure is or why forward pressure in Binding is needed

[EFW]

@Deanoski I agree.

[richfoster]

We can sustain an injury with any bindings.Geez,how many deaths have been attributed to binding setup? I’ve been happy with reflex for 6 years. I mean if it’s good enough for Britney right….Back on topic….I put on the new Radar at nationals. Really good looking ,high quality boot. I’m interested.

[ForrestGump]

Death? Who has died from a binding pre-release? A wee bit of sensationalism there.

 

[BraceMaker]

@Deanoski while MOB is not "new" I do think talking about forward pressure is a bit misleading.

 

Unlike downhill skis where you have 2 binding components mounted to a ski as separate bits with different sole lengths you need to adjust a downhill boot forward pressure and din. You can crank up the din and have too little forward pressure and blow out of a ski. You can have the pressure high and have the din low and not release. But this is due to dimensional variation of boot length and the fact that the ski can flex.

 

With the MOB you lack an adjustment and rely on Mike to machine the sole plates and release parts/plate to a fixed setting.

 

 

[lpskier]

@Deanoski How about Miller bindings?

[teammalibu]

@ForrestGump Ive had a few that looked like i should have died but i did'nt!

[teammalibu]

How does the size compare to Reflex? I wear 8 white cuff and supershell 3. Wondering if i should try 8 or 9 Vapor Boot.

[Broussard]

@teammalibu they seem to fit pretty true to foot size, I wear a size 9 shoe, size 8 Reflex, and fit a size 9 Vapor boot

[teammalibu]

@Broussard Thanks Andre

[Deanoski]

@BraceMaker In a reflex system the boot plastic compressed is the forward

 

no plastic compression (forward pressure) = prerelease

 

 

FYI I made the first mob in 1989 ARC bindings so I know a little about ski bindings

 

plus I work for head Tyrolia Wintersport been a binding tech for 35 years

 

[BraceMaker]

@Deanoski I am not doubting it.

 

Dividing the comment into two separate components.

I used FM quattro from 2005 until ~2014 on my slalom ski and an early reflex, then an FM Revo on a trick ski for several years. Both of the FM systems I felt were an improvement on reflex as the force from the release was being transferred through the sole plate on a fixed dimensional setting. In the Revo the toe plate could be adjusted to ensure appropriate "forward pressure" from the silvretta release and on the split plate quattro I used a strip of paper between the velcro and the boot plates so that I could set the rear gap consistently using the voile tool (little allen key with the plastic end for turning the spring and a fixed gap width setting.

 

Setting up the FM quattros you basically were adjusting the gap between the toe block and the heel release by using a tool to set the gap and separately would set spring tension.

 

The MOB system I think you would agree has no adjustment for the gap because its dimensionally fixed by having the heel and release components fixed to a plate with no adjustment, and then only a spring adjustment. IE - boot flex is meaningless in that system.

 

Reflex style - fully with you. I used a heat gun to relieve a bunion my reflex shell and immediately pre-released brutally 2 times. The shell being blown out shortened the length of the shell.

 

[ktm300]

So @Deanoski, what binding are you using now? I have had good success with Reflex except for one pre release which I will never forget. The new Radar boot has my attention. Thanks

[Deanoski]

@ktm300 Arc then reflex

 

Prereleases July 18 2020 Dam near killed me

 

Currently in a t factor going to try the radar boot in the spring bolted to a plate no reflex release

[slow]

I run the old RS-1’s using the bungee cord release that Horton used to advocate. Hoping the new Vapors will work the same with a bit better conection to my ski

[Zman]

@richfoster Nice job getting thread back on target. Need your help again. B)

[teammalibu]

I will say any Reflex pre release I have had was my own fault!

One was due to a broken weld on the older version that I should have noticed! The other was due to grabbing the wrong release to set up my ski for the ski test!

[teammalibu]

I ordered a new Vapor boot to try this spring. I will set it up with the Reflex 750 hardware!