Electric motor tech marches on

[UWSkier]

This is freekin cool. 355 HP and 443 lb-ft of torque (at idle RPM) out of a 63 lb motor.

 

If I got rid of the 900 lb block and the stern-mounted fuel tank, I could tolerate a lot of battery weight, especially if I could strategically place it for best performance. Link

 

 

[Not_The_Pug]

Cool Tech, but how much will a Koenigsegg motor be? Their cars are affordable. :smile:

[UWSkier]

Yeah, but the tech will trickle down. This is a look at the possible.

[Mastercrafter]

Someone needs to start designing solar panel boat hoist covers with integrated chargers. I'd be curious, on average, how much run time could be obtained per day via solar. Enough for 30-60 minutes of skiing?

 

I dig it. As much as I think there's no replacement for displacement.. the electric think is cool too.

 

[Vernon Reeve]

It would be interesting if boats got too light to track properly. Then we could start adding/removing weight until the perfect balance of tracking vs wake size is reached for the 3 events.

[dvskier]

@vernonreeve

The battery weight will more than compensate for the engine weight saved. Shouldn’t be an issue in the near term.

[chrislandy]

@Mastercrafter I've run some numbers on this previously, solar charging will only be good for those who only ski for a short period then leave for the rest of the week to recharge.

 

Shore fast charging on the other hand is a different game altogether, combined with different styles of usage e.g. lake sharing where limited numbers are allowed on at a time so there is a gap decent gap between ski's or if you ski for 2hrs then break for a few, then repeat. It will work for some, and not for others.

 

Ski Club boats on the other hand will need H2 fuel cell to go electric and have a quick turnaround (or a large heavy battery and a 200kW supercharger lakeside)

 

I should qualify the above with that I've been running EV's for 6months or so, so have real world experience with charging and recharging!

[Octopus_Paxarbolis]

Any news of electric ski boats? Is it ever going to happen?

[KRoundy]

I was curious and I just looked - Nautique no longer has the GS22E on their web site. Looks like they made a run at it but I have to wonder if either it didn't work as well as hoped or it didn't sell well?

[Horton]

as a manufacturer being an early adopter seems risky

[lpskier]

There was a $200,000 price difference between the gas and electric models, I believe. ($150,000 vs $350,000)
 

Ingenity, Correct Craft’s all electric brand, makes an extremely cool 27’ electric Hackercraft triple cockpit runabout. It gets 1.7 hours of run time per charge. That doesn’t sound like much, but assuming a Natigue would get about the same run time per charge and if you don’t “idle” the boat when the skier drops, (or whatever electric boats do), you can get a six pass set in eight minutes on the motor. That would be a little over 12 sets a charge, and that doesn’t sound bad. But for me that extra 200 grand is a deal breaker. 

[aupatking]

The surf boat crowd are all day boozers. Electric, as current batteries allow, seems much more suited for 3-event boats on private lakes running a few sets a day. From what I read, that’s about a hundred boat a year market. Hardly worth the effort unless it’s just the guinea pig for the big boats. 

[chrislandy]

at 200k difference, it feels like they tried to get their R&D costs back in 3-4 boats

[Jody_Seal]

I think the realization by society is that electric vehicles are not a one size fits all proposition. the realization that procurement of the resources to manufacture electric vehicles is far nastier to the environment then that of fossil fuel development. fad? maybe more like a social push by elites to capitalize and become more powerful. the marine industry capitalizes on what the auto industry has to offer for marinization. costly electric vehicle's mean costly electric propulsion for the marine industry.

[Interjon]

If an electric SN were produced, count me in.  

[2Valve]

7 hours ago, Jody_Seal said:

I think the realization by society is that electric vehicles are not a one size fits all proposition. the realization that procurement of the resources to manufacture electric vehicles is far nastier to the environment then that of fossil fuel development. fad? maybe more like a social push by elites to capitalize and become more powerful. the marine industry capitalizes on what the auto industry has to offer for marinization. costly electric vehicle's mean costly electric propulsion for the marine industry.

Excellent points. Ultimately, the free market will decide. Not Govt. agencies.

[rockdog]

3 hours ago, 2Valve said:

Excellent points. Ultimately, the free market will decide. Not Govt. agencies.

Ahh no, the Government will decide via legislation. The 'free' market will have to adapt.

[jcamp]

11 hours ago, Jody_Seal said:

the realization that procurement of the resources to manufacture electric vehicles is far nastier to the environment then that of fossil fuel development. 

Not true when considering the life of the vehicle and factoring in total emissions, at according to the EPA: 

Myth #2: Electric vehicles are worse for the climate than gasoline cars because of battery manufacturing.

• FACT: The greenhouse gas emissions associated with an electric vehicle over its lifetime are typically lower than those from an average gasoline-powered vehicle, even when accounting for manufacturing.

  Some studies have shown that making a typical EV can create more carbon pollution than making a gasoline car. This is because of the additional energy required to manufacture an EV’s battery. Still, over the lifetime of the vehicle, total GHG emissions associated with manufacturing, charging, and driving an EV are typically lower than the total GHGs associated with a gasoline car. That’s because EVs have zero tailpipe emissions and are typically responsible for significantly fewer GHGs during operation (see Myth 1 above).

  For example, researchers at Argonne National Laboratory estimated emissions for both a gasoline car and an EV with a 300-mile electric range. In their estimates, while GHG emissions from EV manufacturing and end-of-life are higher (shown in orange below), total GHGs for the EV are still lower than those for the gasoline car.

Edited January 31 by jcamp
Clarification/accuracy

[BraceMaker]

47 minutes ago, rockdog said:

Ahh no, the Government will decide via legislation. The 'free' market will have to adapt.

Not like the alternative is any different energy subsidized farming subsidized automotive bailed out subsidized.

From auto bail outs to the chicken tax only toss the word "EV" out and all of a sudden its crazy world.

 

[DW]

I imagine lifecycle GHG data will evolve over time, a typical ICE engine car can operate well beyond 100k miles with minimal component investment over the lifecycle.  The question which I believe has not been answered, what is the EV comparison to that.  The elephant in the room is the battery, what real world lifespan can one expect.  If the battery lasts the full lifecycle of the car, excellent, if not, what is the impact.  Is that factored in the data shown above?  Also, as with most rechargeable batteries, they degrade over time so more frequent charging will be required.  Of course, over time the technology will improve.

Footnote:  the Swiss FSAE team developed the fastest accelerating EV vehicle, 0-60 mph in .956 seconds!

https://www.popsci.com/technology/electric-car-race-acceleration-record/#:~:text=The race car rockets from,to stay on the track.&text=A tiny racing car completely,acceleration in an electric vehicle.  

[chrislandy]

@DW Very true but with the increased complexity of ICE for emissions then there is a lot more to the engine than just the block/heads/rotating assembly.

My Ford Ranger 3.2 hydrolocked at 70k (4rys old) when the egr cooler fractured and it sent the coolant into the inlet manifold. CATs fail, oil changes every 8-12k etc. 

Whereas I now have 2 EV's, both "old" (2014 (60k miles) & 2017 (100k) and show negligible battery deg. I think it's part of the same study as @jcamp posted about, but there was one that showed you could replace the battery completely and still be better off in terms of whole life. The batteries are also recycled, there is a huge market for old EV batteries in large scale home storage as the battery isn't dead, but just not "good enough" to use in a car. 

The killer comes when you compare WHERE the electricity comes from, now here in the UK around 40% and rising is from wind and solar, some from nuclear and the rest is LNG, the coal power stations were turned off this year I believe. I also have a large solar array at home so 70% of the year I can run at least one car for free and would be wasted or uncaptured energy otherwise.

Whereas, if you are live in a State where 90% of the power comes from coal burning, then it's most likely worse than an ICE in terms of emissions. 

[Horton]

This thing is going to be tech-driven. The day that the boat companies can purchase an off-the-shelf electric drive train at a reasonable price and with good enough performance we will get the option. I know a few years ago some suppliers were trying to tell the boat companies it was ready and after closer review performance was not there. 

[Jody_Seal]

@Horton

it's not the drive that is the issue. it is the batteries and the impact they have on the environment, from the impact of digging and refining raw materials into a condensed battery pack to its final demise as to how they are then decommissioned. that technology is still very dirty. 

the drive motor part is easy. 

[Dano]

I’m not much up to speed on all the options to replace fossil fuels, but  I think moving away from oil and gas is good but I’ve yet to see a viable path forward with the current options.   Switching to electric is all the talk but I can’t see how it’s possible without a massive increase to the power grids.  I live in Canada and we recently had -30c or colder temps across BC and Alberta.  This alone caused some areas electric grids to be at there max.  Not ideal to plug in millions of cars in the next few years. While I do support the development of electric vehicles I think our government and industry is too focused on just electric power.  I don’t hear about any other options.  Like others have pointed out already,  Electric energy isn’t clean either. It’s just dirty in different ways.,  especially once you start using batteries.  What ever happened to developing hydrogen ice vehicles? Or what else is out there? 

[chrislandy]

1 hour ago, Dano said:

 What ever happened to developing hydrogen ice vehicles? Or what else is out there? 

Hydrogen ICE has some very nasty emissions that the car companies are trying to sort out for years (some have junked the idea, others are still trying to make it work), hydrogen fuel cell EV will likely be the "winner" given the right amount of initial funding for infrastructure and global political will to achieve.

One major issue with hydrogen is the generation of it, it takes a lot of energy and it's a case of where the energy comes from i.e. burning something or solar electricity. Then there is distribution as it requires high quality equipment so it doesn't leak through the tanks / pipes. But, you could have localised generation at the point of use which solves a lot of the distribution issues.

[ALPJr]

Give it another ~5 to 10 years.

[Horton]

@Jody_Seal

I stand corrected. Yes, I realize it's the whole package including and maybe especially the batteries that is the bottleneck.

 

[Jody_Seal]

@Dano

[Dano]

@Jody_Seal If only nuclear fusion was so simple.

[MitchellM]

Current battery technology is a stumbling block for boating applications.  My Rivian has 835hp but weighs over 7000lbs!  Not much of an issue on land, but 1500 lbs  of battery might be an issue on a small ski boat.  I think my Malibu only weighs 3000lbs.

[Horton]

24 minutes ago, MitchellM said:

My Rivian

You have a Rivian? Tell me more. 

[MitchellM]

1 hour ago, Horton said:

You have a Rivian? Tell me more. 

I ordered the Rivian R1S 3 years ago.  It finally came  6 months ago.  I wanted an EV that could tow a ski boat (which I didn't own  yet).  So far I have only needed to tow short distances and to drop the boat into the lake where we just bought a house with a lift.  The Rivian has been great so far.