Define "wide on your gate"?

[wilecoyote]

@RGilmore so I'm not crazy, that's exactly what I was talking about. I had no idea that was a thing. I'm guessing it's not much of an advantage since that video is from 2009 and it hasn't caught on.

[503Kento]

The turning gate was kind of thing back in the late 80’s too. One of my ski buddies still does it. I could never get consistent timing doing it that way.

 

I’ve been listening to last season’s spray makers gates episode on repeat. One thing I realized I was doing wrong was kind of turning down the lake at whatever width I felt necessary and not really keeping the swing going. The little turn I was doing was getting me narrow with too loose of a line. Some experiments in open water yesterday helped me have better speed and width. A few more weeks before the course goes in and I can put it into practice.

[Horton]

@wilecoyote I did that gate for a year or two. It's super hard and I don't think it's ideal. I especially don't think it would work at longer line lengths.

[Adam Caldwell]

From observing and studying Jamie Bs one handed gate.... he had a completely different objective behind it then what I see a lot of the other skiers (pros included) try to accomplish with it.

[MichaelWiebe]

@wilecoyote Here are two videos of a similar gate. My friend is at 22 and 28’ off two weeks ago, at 32mph. You have to pull out late. My friend waits for greens to be behind the boat. Marcus Brown almost waited until they were beside him. The theory includes not losing hardly any speed, so you don’t have to make up a lot of speed. “It’s a game of speed.” Note: I am absolutely no expert. Just providing information.

 

 

[Horton]

@MichaelWiebe those videos above are not the short gate what Marcus was doing all those years ago. That that is just a narrow one-handed gate. A true short gate (which I don't advocate) requires that there be no glide. You go left switch edges and go right. If I skied with this person I would beg him to do something more traditional. that gate is not helping.

[ETskier]

Forms of the one handed gate seemed to help LFFs more. RFFs didn't really need it. Was more helpful to me with perfect pass, with ZO went back to traditional. Then again I was never more than a 32 offer.

[lpskier]

My view of the “typical” one handed gate (that I did for years) is that it’s wasted movement and an opportunity to lose connection with the boat. The idea behind a true one handed gate was, in essence, to trade the glide and move in phase of the gate for a seventh turn, allowing the ski to swing and move out to a wider spot than the skier’s center of mass. In the typical one handed gate, there is no swing and no extra space. I can’t think of a good argument in favor of it. And I did it for 20 years.

[Adam Caldwell]

Gate shots for the the longer rope lengths have a slightly different objective than shorter rope lengths. The difference is in what needs to happen as we leave CL into the preturn.

 

The shorter the line length, the more down course speed you need at the right hand gate ball to enter into the swing without premature separation from the handle.

 

You can get away with a "wide & late gate" up to about 28off. Beyond 28off, that style of gate it starts to fall apart. The swing dynamics needed off the second wake into 1 ball start to change every time the rope gets shorter...each subsequent shortening requires more down-course speed at the right hand gate ball. Trying to sustain excessive ski angle past the right hand gate ball only slows down-course speed and disrupts the swing to into on ball.

 

Study the gate. It is hands down the most important aspect of this sport and it can really help the progression into shorter line lengths. Just remember you are never going to stop the boat during the pull or the swing. So might as well figure out how to move with it!

[bigtex2011]

[bigtex2011]

miss this guy. he was awesome.. clearly going slightly faster than the boat

[wilecoyote]

Great discussion. Thanks for all the replies, I'm glad I brought this up, and as I said before I didn't know that the concept had been a thing for a while. I had thought for someone that could nail the timing it would set you up for an earlier load on the gate shot. I also figured it wouldn't be a good idea for us long liners because it would be pretty hit and miss on success. Which my current gate already is, so the short gate would be even more difficult.

[ScottScott]

Jodi Fisher's wrapped gate guide system just installed at Swiss to be used during regular skiing there (will be taken out for the pro event.) Hard to see in the shot, but it is a row of buoys even with the entry gates with buoys colored to correspond to the rope length you're on (15-35off.) It is a training aid to indicate proper width for pullout for the various rope lengths. Obviously you won't have it to rely on at other venues, but with that as a training aid you can see the relationship to the 2,4,6 buoy line when you're at correct width and get used to the feel of pulling to the correct width.

 

Swiss gate guide

 

[Horton]

@bigtex2011 we all miss that guy.

 

Matt was very influential to my skiing. He explicitly told me that I wanted to rotate the ski in at the moment the boat was going faster than I was. At any turn if you're moving faster than the pylon you will instantly create slack. Slack at its most rudimentary definition is created when the skier is moving as fast or faster than the pylon and moves to the inside.

[ScarletArrow]

@ScottScott That's very interesting. Poor video, but I get the idea. Would like to see it in action.

[ForrestGump]

@Horton you just made me go back through my messages from Matt just to see all the stuff he told me over the years. I think this was my favorite from 2014. Name withheld to protect the guilty. LOL

 

"Aint nobody getting to 4 ball with a xxxx xxxx boat path."

 

XXXX XXXX is a famous driver's name. That makes me laugh still to this day.

[ForrestGump]

and he followed it up with............

 

"Except for that giraffe, Parish. He can do it." LMAO

 

 

[markn]

Skied at Swiss today and had the opportunity to try out the buoy guide. Wow, am I narrow!!! Think I managed 1 out of 8 passes to be lined up with the proper buoy. The one 32 off when I lined up with the green was so easy. It created more space into 1 and so early to 2 ball. I am NEVER up on the boat as much as I was on that pass...even at 38 off. On a 35 off pass, I looked up and I had drifted (I guess as I normally do) in to between the 32 off and 28 off buoy line. This exercise clearly demonstrated I need to be much more up on the boat. No doubt being up on the boat, with proper speed, makes for a much easier, earlier line. This may be one of the most difficult things I have worked on...definitely out of my comfort zone! It is a great teaching tool however.