Binding advice

[water_skier1]

Hi, I need help with bindings. I am on ho xmax bindings(kind of similar to the stance) and sprained my ankle pretty baldly. I think this comes from the binding not releasing during a bad fall. I need to tighten the lace down quite hard otherwise my foot is very loose in the boot. Now I would like uprgade to other bindings in order to save me from worse injuries. I have thought about a rubber boot, specifically a new Ho animal, has anyone got experience with one? Also, I‘m right between medium and large with which should I go? (I cant try them out before I buy)

[MDB1056]

If considering a rubber binding I would recommend the D3 Tfactors as absolutely the best . Dual front laces make for easy in and out, extremely well made, and they give great lateral support. Some top pros ride them including Nate Smith and Dane Mechler who ride into 41 and 43 so you know they’re high performance . I much prefer vs HO Animals . Been on tfactors for many years and they’ve released in world class falls for me. I’m a fan for life. 

[jhughes]

I think Corey Vaughn also switched over to T-factors. Amazing binding for sure.

[water_skier1]

thanks for the replies I am a bit concerned over the laces and they are quite a bit more expensive as well

[MDB1056]

You’re wanting to buy high quality bindings that will perform and keep you safe. If some of the worlds top skiers are riding them that should hopefully eliminate your “concerns” regarding the laces. 

[Slalom.Steve]

15 minutes ago, water_skier1 said:

thanks for the replies I am a bit concerned over the laces and they are quite a bit more expensive as well

Yeah if you want a good boot, it'll cost money. T-Factors are the bomb.

Nick Parsons is also on the T-Factor.

[water_skier1]

ok thanks I will get t-factors then 

[vtmecheng]

I was on Xmax bindings years ago for a couple of seasons and am not a fan with respect to performance or safety. They have a lot of room throughout, meaning that you have to tighten the laces a lot to keep your foot in place. I injured my ankle one time in them because I had the laces tight enough that my foot wouldn't move around but that resulted in my foot staying half way in during a fall. The extra room also makes for too much lateral play, hindering performance. I tried the Xmax laced super tight on a MOB release system and the performance was limited by the boot. Switched to a Vector on the MOB and it was instant improvement. Point being, the binding makes a difference to more thank just safety.

I have no experience with the T Factor but a lot of people seem to like them. Definitely spend time early on learning how tight to make the laces so that your foot easily comes out. I hear that the rubber does soften a bit with a few sets, making it more comfortable and release a bit easier.

You never said what you use in the back. If you use the the rear toe plate that came with the Xmax, replace it too. I found more comfort and confidence trying both the Radar adjustable toe plate and a traditional rubber one. D3 makes a really nice one too.

[water_skier1]

@vtmecheng I use a radar adjustable rtp so my back foot always comes out in a fall but with the xmax bindings the front one doesnt

[water_skier1]

And do they feel like a traditional rubber boot?

[MDB1056]

@water_skier1 - IMO that's completely subjective. I've only ever ridden rubber and I love them.  

[cole_hoek]

I used to use a Radar Pulse (closed toe lace up) and spraigned my ankle several times in one year with it. Ended my season with 2 torn ligaments, 1 tendon, chipped ankle bone, and high ankle sprain in my lead ankle with that binding. I switched to a wileys high wrap and  really like it and (knock on wood) have not had any issues with it.

[lpskier]

Are you  on a double XMax binding or an XMax front with a kicker? If the later, I suspect that you hurt yourself when you fell with your back foot out and your front foot in. If this the case, it doesn’t matter what binding you select, you can still have the same injury because it’s what’s happening to your back foot (out of the binding) as opposed to the front foot (in the binding) that is the problem. The solution is to have a binding combo that will virtually always end a fall with both feet in or both feet out. 
 

Ski in the smallest binding you can tolerate. I’m a 10. I ski in an 8 hardshell. 

[ETskier]

Just switched from D3 leverage to T-factor. Feels just like the Leverage but with far more lateral control. 

[Deanoski]

Another vote for t factor 

[water_skier1]

@lpskier yeah I use an xmax front with a rtp and its exactly how you described it. I have hoped that in such a fall the front foot would slide out as well in a rubber binding. So the only real solution is either double boots or a hardshell in the front?

[BraceMaker]

You can use an Xmax or other rubber front it's about fit.

The Xmax isn't a performance binding if you set the laces so you can get the boot on by wetting it and wetting your foot and push it on you'll come out but as you exceed that level of performance or if you just want a tighter fit then you need to move up to a different boot.

 

[Mastercrafter]

I take a lot of falls. Some admittedly pretty bad. I should let go sooner. Anyways.. 

I broke my ankle in 2020 with some soft boots that were too big and too tight, like your scenario. 

I’ve since switched to a hardshell with Reflex release, and despite the falls getting bigger, I’ve been 100% ankle injury free. For me, well-worth the investment.  My rear binding is a Reflex R-Style so the rear foot comes out easily. 

Im using an Edge hardshell and have been happy with it. I did try a 2022 Vapor boot with release, and while it was a comfortable boot, I stuck with the Edge for the time being. 

Lots of options out there. 
 

 

Edited August 9, 2023 by Mastercrafter

[water_skier1]

thanks for the replies!

@BraceMaker what binding would you recommend? I am not too keen on trying hardshells because I have heard that the adjustment period can be very long but maybe I should give them a try 

[BraceMaker]

Don't need help spending your money!  I use a shell mounted on a MOB plate, but I spiral fractured a femur not coming out of a rubber boot so I really wanted something that wouldn't let that happen again.  Once bit twice shy I think is the best way to put that.   One in one out ski in the water body spinning.  Also had a high ankle sprain using a dual hardshell system stuffed a ball and had to take the cuff off the shell.  The cuff (and my ankle) got stuffed forwards hard enough that the cuff got jammed over the lower shell, and that was on a releasing system.  So I went to the MOB and moved my shell over and that's been excellent.  I also have a bum joint in my big toe from a hockey puck 

I have my wife on a Wiley rubber boot and I used those for a bit as well they just hurt the toe and cramp my foot too much.

[water_skier1]

I hope your injuries have healed up nicely, I guess I always had luck that I never broke my ankle 

I get a feeling that no binding is really safe, maybe I should just get the one that brings the most performance for me and hope that I wont injure myself

Edited August 9, 2023 by water_skier1

[MDB1056]

Nothing is 100%. Make a well informed decision based on known information.  

[LeonL]

You're right, no binding is totally safe.  I've been on T-Factors for 10-12 years.   Always came out in bad falls --- until last Sept.   Front foot came out rear came out partially.  Suffered a Lizfranc fracture.  On crutches for 10 weeks.  So no, there are no such things as totally safe bindings.

[water_skier1]

Currently I‘m leaning towards the t factor seems like a good binding 

[lpskier]

If you want a front rubber boot like a TFactor and you want to virtually eliminate the chance of a fall like the one you hurt yourself on, your choice is a double high wrap rubber boot set up, either double TFactors or a front TFactor and a rear Wylie ( personally I’d go with Wylies front and back). Your other option is something that will allow the front boot to release, like a Reflex, HO Syndicate Hardshell or MOB. 
 

Don’t be afraid to try hardshells. 

[vtmecheng]

@lpskier ask Matteo what he now thinks about using a Wylie rear, even if not tight. He publicly said that a release front and RTP rear would likely have kept him from his recent rear foot Achilles rupture.  Also, in my opinion both feet in is not super safe. I skied with two individuals who spiral fractured with both in during a twisting fall using dual rubber boot. No thanks!

[water_skier1]

@lpskier I have tried double boots serveral times but always hated them, so I think I will stick to a rtp and rather try a hardshell

[lpskier]

@vtmecheng Well, that’s why I still ski in Fogmans, long after most people have retired theirs. 

[MDB1056]

Tfactors are cheap compared to the price of hardshells 

[water_skier1]

thanks everyone for the great advice!

Does anyone know if the t factor will fit the front ho insert pattern without problems?

[DW]

HO Animal bindings will mount on a D3 ski.  The reverse should apply.  The ski hole pattern is pretty much standard today although which hole is the recommended starting point varies.  Use the mfg. suggested distance from tail to start.

[MDB1056]

I ran tfactors on my last HO which was about a 2013/14 model without issue. Mounted right up no problem. Been riding Connelly since which they also mount to just fine   

[water_skier1]

thanks good to know!

[LeonL]

Front holes are pretty much universal.  Rear, not so much.

[water_skier1]

Now, I need your help again.

As most of you suggested I ordered a d3 T factor binding. Much to my disappointment it wont mount on my ho vtr. I think the middle holes on the right side are machined too far inward and now I cant put all 6 screws in. Has anyone experienced this? and what should I do now?

[MDB1056]

What? Doesn't make sense. Can't see the inserts from that that picture.  VTR is about a 2014 /15 ski. My tfactors mounted right up to an S2 that was I believe was a 2013/14.   Show us a pic of the middle inserts with the binding sitting so the front inserts show in the slots 

Edited August 16, 2023 by MDB1056

[BraceMaker]

Is the boot as far forwards as the measurement says it should be?

[DW]

@water_skier1 - what length is your VTR?  The HO website has a chart for binding location, the distance stated is a measurement from the back edge of the ski to the back edge of the binding (normally the back edge of the rubber heel part).  Depending on ski length it should be roughly 28-30”.  
I will add an HO Animal mounting plate does have the front slots at the very front of the plate.

Edited August 16, 2023 by DW

[water_skier1]

no no no you understood me all wrong I know that the binding is not where it will be mounted and I did have my old one at 29.50 but even if it is lined up with the holes, the middle ones (which I marked) wont be 100% over the inserts so one screw doesnt go in

Edited August 16, 2023 by water_skier1

[water_skier1]

@MDB1056 I hope you can see it in the picture, all 5 screws are in and lined up but that one wont fit 

[Deanoski]

Round File. Time 

[elr]

Loosen the other five screws to see if you can start the sixth.

 

[water_skier1]

@elr I have already tried that all I guess its time for a file

[MDB1056]

OK so the pattern does line up  - it's just one is a hair narrow .I'm surprised. I got rid of the 5 "circles" just by running a drill bit up and down in there to turn it into a slot like the others as I use Mikro-just. If you want to only open up one hole you can also use a drill - only takes a few seconds to do either.   

[DW]

+1 on using a drill bit, cleaner than a file.

[swbca]

By counting pixels on an enlarged view of your photograph of your T-Factor and mine, it clear the holes in the T-Factor plate are not machined in the right place.  As others have pointed out its easy to fix with a drill.  Rather than using a larger bit, you could use a drill that matches the size of the other holes and use it as "grinder" by pressuring the drill towards the edge of the plate forcing it to chew its way outward the small amount required.

[BraceMaker]

Microjust is sweet before I had it though I just ran a single star washer on one of the screws under the finish washer.  Bit into the plate hard enough to lock it down.

[water_skier1]

thanks for all the advice, the problem I see is just that the „circels“ are countersunk and should act like holes not slots so if I drill the hole out the screw would no longer be countersunk and then I only had slots and nothing to mount the binding securly 

[MDB1056]

@water_skier1 - No. Incorrect. Where the front and rear inserts attach on the boot are slots, yet they tighten down securely.  Look at the picture I posted  above, the front slot screws have a washer underneath and the rears (also slots) are the wider head Radar screws both tighten down just fine. You do not need countersunk holes to secure the boot correctly at all . Or listen to what @BraceMaker said above.   

To use Mikro-just you are instructed (required) to get rid of the holes as it has to have a slot. 

 

 

[water_skier1]

@MDB1056 thanks I was a little hesitant to drill a brand new binding but if I dont need the countersunk screws- great. Maybe I buy mikro just as well