WAKEBOARD/SURF BOAT WAKES

[bananaron]

Ballers it finally happened on my lake.I live on a beautiful public lake in Northern Minnesota.I have owned the property since 1998 and retired here as my primary residence in 2001.I could always ski most anytime other then weekend days until 2020.The pandemic and civil unrest brought people to this lakes area in droves and all of the lots got sold.Its now difficult at night during the week to ski without having pontoons fishing boats and the wake/.surf boats out.Well Monday night just prior to sunset I tried to take a ski run.I had an IO and pontoon boat  behind me waiting for me to go so I had the wife power up the old Gekko however unknown to me a large wake/surf boat was heading our direction from the north.The wave hit the boat so hard my dog flew off the observer seat and the pins for the motor box cover came out.My wife thought the boat slammed so hard that it was damaged.I am usually very balance on my ski and back in the day I could ride any waves barefoot however this wave took me down and I went head over and both feet came out of my bindings .I have a radar vector in the front and a Wiley high wrap in the rear and both are newer and tight.This fall was just as bad as many of my barefoot falls and I was seeing stars.It was nasty!! Our lake is not designed for these boats as its very narrow and now very crowded.I guess mornings are now the only time for skiing.......STILL RECOVERING FROM THAT DAMN FALL 

[S1Pitts]

@bananaron This is no different than any lake in our area. This year we have seen a new beast on the water (many of them) that throws a wake so large it swamps your regular ski type boat if it is just sitting floating enjoying the sunshine. (NOT KIDDING)

What happened to boaters being responsable for their wakes produced by their boat? I am off the water by 9am to avoid these A** H**** who think they can surf any direction at any distance from the shore at any time of the day. It especially ticks me off when they surf 100ft out from a boat launch to watch and laugh at the mayhiem they created with their waves. 

Time to pull out the SCUBA gear and do a little night diving with a hole saw.

[Slalom.Steve]

I despise wakesurf boats, or as I call them, wakesurf barges.

[Dano]

I can appreciate that people like to surf, or wakeboard or fish or whatever on a public lake.  I get it we are not all skiers. The surf boats have gotten a little crazy though.  They have rules that limit power boats in lakes, they should be considering limiting use of ballast or wakeshapers on smaller lakes or lakes that are narrow.  Here in Canada our boat licensing is laughable.  An online course that a dog could pass.  Maybe making a meaningful boat operators course that teaches both rules, regulations, operation, and etiquette would be a good start followed by actually policing the lakes.  Just enforcing the no drinking and driving would remove 50% of the boats from our lakes.  Maybe a bit of exaggeration but you get the point. 

Edited August 17, 2023 by Dano

[tjs1295]

I rarely ski past 8 AM, and never take the ski boat out later in the day. Pontoon boat only for those times. I do believe some sort of regulation is in the future. The manufacturers, and owners are their own worst enemy. Bigger and bigger is the only mindset. There was a survey this spring from the Wisconsin DNR asking how people felt about different regulations on those boats. The response was basically 65% in favor of various regulations, and 35% opposed. It's all fun and games until you start messing with the loons and their nests!!!😀

[lefty]

Our public lake is the same, need to be done skiing by 8 or 9 am. Even then in the busy summer days it is hit and miss. I look forward to June and September  work best here but that will diminish over time I expect. 

[swc5150]

We got so lucky here on our river in Eau Claire, WI.  All the wake boats that used to be out there are now gone.  I have no reason why, but I'll take it.  Nothing but tournament ski boats and pontoons out there now...even 2 MC Barefoot 200's.  

[bananaron]

The regulations in MN state that the operator of the boat is responsible for the wake however many surf wakes have damaged the railings on pontoons.One of the surf boat owners stated that maybe the old folks who drive pontoons should learn how to drive them.So now we have the retired folks against the younger surf boat owners.Our lake is very narrow and is not really designed for lots of any types of boats.I know lakes in the MPLS/ST PAUL area have started new regulations pertaining to these boats and their waves........The university of Minnesota did a study on the impact of the waves from surf boats and it was alarming what the waves do.The distance thrust amount of water put out. 

[S1Pitts]

I took a part time seasonal position with a dock company building docks. Going forward we are using floats that are 24 inches tall as standard as opposed to 12 inches. We also have a growing number of requests to refit docks with these taller floats. Reason being is the surf wakes are rolling over the tops of the decks and everyone on the lake is getting sick of it. Average cost to refit an average sized dock is $4500. That's 2 new skis up here in Canada!

[tmothy07]

9 hours ago, Dano said:

I can appreciate that people like to surf, or wakeboard or fish or whatever on a public lake.  I get it we are not all skiers. The surf boats have gotten a little crazy though.  They have rules that limit power boats in lakes, they should be considering limiting use of ballast or wakeshapers on smaller lakes or lakes that are narrow.  Here in Canada our boat licensing is laughable.  An online course that a dog could pass.  Maybe making a meaningful boat operators course that teaches both rules, regulations, operation, and etiquette would be a good start followed by actually policing the lakes.  Just enforcing the no drinking and driving would remove 50% of the boats from our lakes.  Maybe a bit of exaggeration but you get the point. 

Around our area (Austin) there's so much money that people buy their first boat and it's a G23 Paragon or similar. They cruise around off plane because they want to go faster than idle for the air flow but don't want to be up on plane, and the result is just surf waves all the time. They also slow down to about surf speed to pass you, rather than dropping down to idle or just staying up on plane because they feel like they're being safe/nice (like if you were driving a car) but the reality is they just sent up a wall of water at a tiny ski boat.

At least around here, boater education and a strict licensing requirement (currently none if you were born prior to 9/1/1993, and only the usual NASBLA course if born after) would likely fix a lot of problems. I've really only ran into one malicious piece of work while boating on this lake, it's really just people who don't know any better and didn't go through learning the written and unwritten rules on a smaller, older boat first.

[dleenhouts]

I think almost all of us are familiar with "you're responsible for your own wake", but that is so subjective that it means nothing. Until it's codified into unambiguous terms, nothing will change.

[Jsh809]

My family’s lake house is on Lake of the Ozarks… trust me fellas, it only gets worse.

[DW]

There are multiple states considering or enacting surf / ballasted boat regulations based on lake property owner complaints.  There are a few wake studies (U of Minn being one and currently the go to reference) documenting the wake properties.  If you peruse the social media threads there is a very clear and divisive grouping of the surfers v the rest resulting in a lack of cooperation or working towards a reasonable compromise or solution.  My take, the problem is not going away on it's own, more complaints will fill the airwaves resulting in litigation and regulations as the method to solve the problem. 

A key for this group, stay abreast of any impending legislation to hope the ski community does not get impacted.

[tjs1295]

40 minutes ago, DW said:

There are multiple states considering or enacting surf / ballasted boat regulations based on lake property owner complaints.  There are a few wake studies (U of Minn being one and currently the go to reference) documenting the wake properties.  If you peruse the social media threads there is a very clear and divisive grouping of the surfers v the rest resulting in a lack of cooperation or working towards a reasonable compromise or solution.  My take, the problem is not going away on it's own, more complaints will fill the airwaves resulting in litigation and regulations as the method to solve the problem. 

A key for this group, stay abreast of any impending legislation to hope the ski community does not get impacted.

Last paragraph is so true. We might all be punished for their actions. 

[jjackkrash]

1 hour ago, dleenhouts said:

I think almost all of us are familiar with "you're responsible for your own wake", but that is so subjective that it means nothing. Until it's codified into unambiguous terms, nothing will change.

The solution is get the vessel number and file suit if a particular boat's wake causes injuries like in this case.  It's actually not that complicated or subjective in most states.  The general standard has been around in maritime law for decades.  It's easier to prove than negligence in a car wreck situation because the boat with the big wake has the burden to conclusively prove that it took all reasonable to avoid harm caused bv the wake and that the wake was not the cause of the harm.  I would think it would be pretty hard to prove no causation when these boats are doing everything possible to make the wakes bigger not smaller.  

[dleenhouts]

So you've got 2 different parties with different definitions of "reasonable". That's the opposite of unambiguous.

[Jody_Seal]

[jjackkrash]

5 minutes ago, dleenhouts said:

So you've got 2 different parties with different definitions of "reasonable". That's the opposite of unambiguous.

Nope.  In any courtroom there is one standard at play and a neutral fact finder makes a determination based on instructions about the standard and the evidence.  Just like in every car wreck case where negligence is the standard.  The jury gets instructed on the standard and then makes a call.  Its tough for me to see how the captain of a wake barge is going to be able to prove he took all reasonable steps to minimize the risk of damage caused by the wake when they are intentionally loading the boat with wake-enhancement devises and traveling at speeds designed to maximize the wake.   Good luck with that.  

[escmanaze]

Sounds like a dang war zone out there.  Sorry guys.  I'm grateful to be on Utah lake where the max depth is 13 feet, average depth is closer to 9 feet, and frankly the surf waves just can't develop well in such small depth.  

It does sound like some legislation might need to be in order here to keep the HUGE boats on the bigger lakes.  

[LoopSki]

I was out on the Delta last weekend. There are alot of mini yachts that cruise the channels. I thought their wakes were big until i had to go past a surf boat. The wake on the surf boat was bigger than any of the yachts.  An inexperienced driver would have swamped badly. Took alot of work but I didn’t get a drop over the bow. One slip up of the throttle though and it can get bad quick. 

[6balls]

I wouldn't hit that shit at ski speeds that's for sure.  In a low boat like the Gekko you are going to have trouble even at proper angle/low speeds and good on the throttle/steering--most ski boats it's tough but tougher in that Gekko

[Andy]

The wakes are huge and I also find the rear facing driver’s seat a problem 

[Mastercrafter]

You can just about surf a ski boat on some of the waves on our lake. I’ve bent all the aluminum Shorestation cradle guides on my hoist because a giant wave will come in and throw the boat sideways with some pretty serious force as I’m coming into the hoist. They wreak havoc on anything mored in the water. I’m truthfully shocked they continue to get away with this. 

Edited August 19, 2023 by Mastercrafter

[LoopSki]

Eventually a sheriff’s boat will get swamped if it hasn’t happened already. I would love to see what would happen to the surf boat driver! 

[lpskier]

@escmanaze Nautique G23wake boats produce an “optimum” wake in a water depth of 26’ or more, I am told. That’s a lot of displacement. 

[nautique1228]

Even wakeboarders hate surfers. Our lake has a weight restriction which pretty much prevents any v drive after 2013 from getting put on our lake, and has outlawed surfing. But the damn tri toons weigh just as much with 12 “fat sacks” on board and all they do is cruise at surfing speed anyways! 

[tjs1295]

@escmanaze You’re lucky if they don’t surf by you due to the depth, but I don’t think many people are aware that a deep lake helps. I bet I only see about 25% of the surf boats around here actually surf. I think a lot of people buy these boats because that’s what’s available. Within a 30 minute drive of my house there is a Tige, Nautique, MasterCraft, and Malibu dealer. Only other boat dealers that I’m aware of in the area sell fishing boats or pontoon boats. So anyone who goes looking for a family boat around here (and probably in a lot of locations nationwide) will be told a surf boat is exactly what you want. 

[S1Pitts]

I  must admit that @tjs1295 last comment is quite true around here as well. At least 50% of them are plowing water with nobody behind the boat.

The ONLY good that has come from them is the many hrs of entertainment these new barge owners have provided us at the boat launch. Wished I had a phone to record the last witnessed event.

They put the trailer in so deep water was running into the truck when the driver opened the door. The trailer was so deep the pads on the trailer guides floated off the pipes! Boat turned sideways in the wind after they connected and tightened the winch line so driver thought "Hey I will just pull ahead to straighten it out" Running gear got caught on the trailer guide pipe and the driver paniced by gunning the truck pulling boat /trailer up the ramp.  Boat ended up rolled over 90 deg on the trailer with the guide pipe between the hull and drive shaft.

I never would have believed it had I not seen it myself. Priceless

Edited August 22, 2023 by S1Pitts
grammer/spelling

[dbaconaz]

@DW I think in OR they have already limited areas on the river that the surf boats can be used. I do believe other states will follow. 

[503Kento]

The bulk of the Willamette (in OR) above the Oregon City falls has banned surfers entirely. There used to be specific zones but now no surfing and no boats over a weight limit and no ballast. Local dealers will get a boat build with no ballast to get you below the weight limit.