2005 196 - hesitating on starts

[igkya]

Boat just started hesitating on most starts, regardless if a skier is in tow or not.  Lasts for ~1-2 seconds and then gets to speed quickly with no other noticeable problems.  Any suggestions on what may be causing this?

 

 

 

[S1Pitts]

Start with the basics. Have the fuel filter(s) been serviced in the last few seasons?

[igkya]

Ez enuff to check fuel filter, but shouldn't the problem be more constant, like driving thru course?

[S1Pitts]

The filter in the fuel cell (I am assuming PCM still has one in a 2005) caused me the same issue until I changed it.  

[LeonL]

Kinda off subject,  but fuel flow can yield odd results.  I was driving a 200 for Regionals practice a few years ago.  Ran great until I got a 36 mph skier.  Felt a little weak..  After that skier, back to 34 everything was fine,  Next 36 weaker still.  Replaced the in-line filter and all was well.

[buoyboy1]

My 196 was behaving the same way and new distributor cap and rotor did the trick.  I had already replaced both 70 hrs earlier...weird.

[ETskier]

Make sure the pententiometer is not cracked and operating correctly. 

[buechsr]

23 hours ago, ETskier said:

Make sure the pententiometer is not cracked and operating correctly. 

 Am I wrong that an 05 would not have one?

I'd hit the fuel filters, cap and rotor, and then put a fuel pressure gauge on.

[LeonL]

Yeah, what is a "pententiometer".  I'm sure an '05 196 has no such device..

 

Edit:  Yeah, I knew what he meant. Still don't think it's on an '05.

Edited August 21, 2023 by LeonL

[buechsr]

49 minutes ago, LeonL said:

Yeah, what is a "pententiometer".  I'm sure an '05 196 has no such device..

He meant potentiometer.  It's basically the servo that translates drive by wire signals into physical movement on the engine.  Not unlike a perfect pass servo.  I don't think a 196 would be DBW until 08, but could be wrong.

[Ski_Dad]

If none of the normal things fix it look at getting the fuel injectors cleaned ultrasonically.   I had to do this to my 03 Malibu that had a weird hesitation but ran great at all other times. 

In my case I did my filter, fuel lines, pickup and screen at the bottom of the fuel pump first.  Ruled out the fuel pump by hooking a gauge while i was boating to watch the pressure.

[ETskier]

Sorry guys on the misspelling. But, yes it is the drive by wire servo. 2006 was the the 1st year, but it was introduced in 2005. Nautique's version was a traditional cable from the throttle to this device, then electronic through the ECM.  It tended to become brittle and disintegrate over time, particularly in warm climates. 

[buechsr]

14 hours ago, ETskier said:

Sorry guys on the misspelling. But, yes it is the drive by wire servo. 2006 was the the 1st year, but it was introduced in 2005. Nautique's version was a traditional cable from the throttle to this device, then electronic through the ECM.  It tended to become brittle and disintegrate over time, particularly in warm climates. 

I understand where you're going, and that they can fail, but causing a hesitation?  I'm not following that but seek to learn about this as  I've already done one on my 08.  thx

If the basics dont fix it I'd bet on crank position sensor.

Edited August 22, 2023 by buechsr

[MatadorMaine]

That boat has a fuel filter in the fuel cell.  Any Nautique dealer will have the filter in stock. My SN 2007 would do the same thing. It's a 4 minute job and most likely the issue. Do that before spending $ on cap and rotor. They also have them on NautiqueParts.com. My buddy with same boat was having same issue last week. 4 minutes later it was fixed. Filter hadn't been changed in 3 years. It was BLACK. 

[igkya]

We pulled the filter yesterday, it was black.  Didn't see anything else wrong.  Test drove boat making several starts, but no skier in tow, and the problem did not occur.  New filter should be delivered tomorrow.

[igkya]

New filter didn't resolve the issue.  Cleaned the spark arrestor yesterday which was really dirty and on the 2nd set, the problem seems to have gone away, or at least is not as bad or frequent.

[UWSkier]

38 minutes ago, igkya said:

New filter didn't resolve the issue.  Cleaned the spark arrestor yesterday which was really dirty and on the 2nd set, the problem seems to have gone away, or at least is not as bad or frequent.

some carb cleaner down the throttle body throat and on the IAC might not be a bad idea if a cleaned spark arrestor helped.  Get all the gunk off the butterfly, in any of the orifices, etc.

[igkya]

Problems continued but were inconsistent and seemed to go away after the engine was warmed up... sometimes after 3 passes, sometimes it took a few sets.  I took the D-cap off and saw the points were a bit pitted and the rotor was black.  Took some fine grit sandpaper to clean them and the problem seems to have been resolved, at least for the last 2 ski days.

[buechsr]

Despite filters being suggested earlier, and which are fine suggestions, if the cap and rotor have not been changed to solve this, absolutely put a new one on.  They're like $50-75.  I was including those in my simple things description but should have been more clear.  

[igkya]

No issues for last 4 ski days, then today the engine just lost all power as we were going around the turn island.  Picked up the skier and boat ran great back to the dock when we called it a day.  I think I have access to an OBD reader, but not sure where to connect this and not finding this in the PCM or owners manual.  Any help?

[buechsr]

Given your year, I would think it'd be a plug shaped like this:

https://www.rinda.com/rindashop/shop/adapter/94005

I don't think an auto OBD would be much help.

If you've not done the cap and rotor yet, it needs to be done.  If you haven't changed both fuel filters, that needs to be done.  I'd change plugs as well.  If after all that you have same issue, then hook up a fuel pressure gauge.  Everything above are standard maintenance items that in light of the FCC filter findings, suggest to me your boat needs some service TLC before even chasing this problem further.  

If all the above don't fix, I'm still in crank position sensor camp.  

[Andre]

26 minutes ago, buechsr said:

Given your year, I would think it'd be a plug shaped like this:

https://www.rinda.com/rindashop/shop/adapter/94005

I don't think an auto OBD would be much help.

If you've not done the cap and rotor yet, it needs to be done.  If you haven't changed both fuel filters, that needs to be done.  I'd change plugs as well.  If after all that you have same issue, then hook up a fuel pressure gauge.  Everything above are standard maintenance items that in light of the FCC filter findings, suggest to me your boat needs some service TLC before even chasing this problem further.  

If all the above don't fix, I'm still in crank position sensor camp.  

What do you plug at the other end of that adapter ?  Laptop with a program  ?

[buechsr]

2 minutes ago, Andre said:

What do you plug at the other end of that adapter ?  Laptop with a program  ?

yes, or a handheld unit.  software is diacom.  I have no idea what information could be garnered from an automobile OBD reader.

https://www.rinda.com/marine/diacommarine.htm

 

[jpwhit]

What engine? PCM EX-330 5.7L.

Assuming it's the EX-330, as other have already said, change the distributor and rotor if it hasn't already been replaced in the last 100 hours. The Vortec 5.7L engines are notorious for hairline cracks in the distributor cap to cause issues. You won't be able to see the cracks with the naked eye. I would do this before spending any further time diagnosis the issue, because it's so common to cause issues like you describe and is a general maintenance item. It's also pretty common for the ears on the distributor that has the threads for the cap to break off. If that happens or has happened, you can order an inexpensive repair plate from Amazon. 

https://www.amazon.com/Dorman-90449-Distribution-Repair-Plate/dp/B00BQAJNWO/ref=sr_1_1?crid=C6DEDV3NICSZ&keywords=dorman+90449+vortec+distributor+repair+plate&qid=1695153236&sprefix=dorman+vorte%2Caps%2C142&sr=8-1

If fuel filters haven't been changed in last couple of years, then that's a good idea too. 

Boats engine management is based on the J1939 standard. Which is the same standard used for heavy equipment. An automotive ODB II reader won't be able to talk to the marine ECU at all. 

[BigRed]

Had the same issue with my 08 343. Changed cap and rotor with little change. New plugs and wires was what worked for me. 

[igkya]

Issue has morphed from only being present while the engine was cold to now where it runs great untill it's warmed (about 12-18 passes).  It's now losing power and to the point it won't hold speed thru course. Most gauges no longer work, but from the left speed gauge, the digital engine temp on is only at 115 degrees F.  We're starting to get loud backfiring too.  Any chance this could be fuel related with the low pressure pump?

[BraceMaker]

Don't get lured into thinking its just one problem sometimes several.

No chance a low pressure fuel pump is causing your gauges to go out.

One thing I'd be checking on first is simply output voltage on your alternator, takes juice to run the dash, fuel, and ignition and sometimes low voltage creates a "brown out" situation where there simply isn't appropriate voltage to keep everything going usually eventually causes a no start but not always.

[igkya]

Didn't mean to imply the fuel pump would cause the gauges to go out, simply that they aren't reliable and haven't been for a year+.  I'm guessing the checking the voltage is an an easy enough thing to check with any voltmeter.

[S1Pitts]

You are getting backfiring while it is running at speed? If that is the case I would not be skiing on this boat till it was resolved in the shop. Engines do not like to back fire for long before damaging something.

[buechsr]

As has been suggested by multiple people multiple times, change the cap and rotor.  These backfiring symptoms make that even more likely the culprit.   

[igkya]

Put new rotor on today, it seemed like it eliminated any backfiring.  We got baselines for volts at alternator and fuel pressure, both within spec at idle and WOT.  Afetr about 12+ passes, the engine started to lose power, volts stayed at ~14 but the fuel pressure dropped from 60 to 35psi.  Since the issue only seems to happen after the engine has run for a while, I'm leaning towards both low and high=pressure pumps should be replaced vs. fuel filters (FCC fuel filter was replaced a week ago).  Agree?

The engine temp is still at 115, would this suggest that the thermostat is stuck open and simply should be replaced?

[igkya]

Problem resolved.

There isn't an in-line or pre-filter just before the low pressure pump on this boat.  We took the pump out and looked inside.  There's a micro mesh/screen that was 95%+ blocked.  Simple cleaning, put back together and boat is strong like bull again.

 

Thanks for the input.

[buechsr]

4 hours ago, igkya said:

Problem resolved.

There isn't an in-line or pre-filter just before the low pressure pump on this boat.  We took the pump out and looked inside.  There's a micro mesh/screen that was 95%+ blocked.  Simple cleaning, put back together and boat is strong like bull again.

 

Thanks for the input.

Have you exhaustively looked for an in line filter all the way back to the tank?  I'm going to be very surprised if you don't hit one.  It may require removal of rear seat or trunk basement panel to confirm.  If you in fact can't find one after exhaustive looking, I'd suggest adding one.  Either case, glad you're purring.

[thager]

Had most of the above symptoms last week with my 02 196 ZO. Talked to Tim White at Inboard Solutions LLC. Tim sent me the OEM parts I needed. I replaced cap and rotor. Easy install. Was about 20 minutes. All is good again. Like a new boat!