What do you think is most important when setting up a slalom ski?

[jgills88]

Many people talk about doing different things to set up their ski. If you could only change one thing with your equipment, what would be the best "bang for your buck" in your opinion?

[aupatking]

When I read the response options I’m not clear on the question.

Ski? Is this a noun or verb? Like “change skis” or “go ski it until you get it figured out”?

Obviously, changing skis would be the biggest change, and require both figuring out binding placement and fin setting.

After that, I go the route Rossi suggests: set the fin to stock, then figure out your boot placement, then fin settings. 

[jgills88]

@aupatking by ski, I meant the slalom ski itself. In your opinion, would the difference between an HO, or a Radar (with all other settings equal) be more significant than moving your bindings on the same ski? Or adjusting your fin?

I've heard some very good skiers claim that bindings matter above everything else, so I was curious what other people thought 

[Horton]

changing the ski itself is going to create many many more variables than a fin or binding adjustment. I'm not sure I agree with the framing of the question. When you change skis, you have a whole new canvas as opposed to when you are adjusting your existing ski.

[CharlieThreeThree]

That is the worst assumption I've ever seen. In what world do you live in that you could possibly only change one of those variables? 

There are better ways to have that discussion, and in fact there are many, many threads in place. 

[dchristman]

I think this is a great question!

I have done some testing at the limits and I declare that the binding is the most important item in the chain. This is the perfect opportunity for me to review some of my finest achievements in skiing.

Exhibit A - the board

The ski is a lever and the binding is your connection to that lever.  Without a good connection you aren't going to get far.
This is a board with foot placed carefully at the optimal spot using the Freelease system. Connection is provided only by gravity and friction.

Exhibit B - the Ski Skat - minimal bindings and a fin

The design of the a essentially adds extra control surfaces to your lever. Without an effective binding, you can't take advantage of those control surfaces. This Ski Skat is shaped and has grooves. Although it has bindings to guide foot placement and provide some connection they provide little leverage laterally.

Exhibit C - the board with Reflex at non-optimal location and no fin
Although the binding was not located at the optimal position (I think it's a little too far forward), I could at least complete a pass in the mini-course.

Exhibit D - a modern system with finely tuned components.
I have everything I need. What is lacking at this level is skill. I don't believe a ski change, a binding move, or a fin adjustment is going to make or break these passes.

I have a couple other variation I want to try:
- the board with a fin
- Ski Skat without a fin

-Ski Skat with Reflex and fin
- Different skis in the mini-course 32-43 off

 

[skialex]

It’s another thing changing the boots themselves and another moving them back or forth, or moving the fin… 

 changing your boots, (to a different style or setup) could be huge and a bigger change than trying a new ski at stock with your trusted boots on. 
figuring out a new ski could take some time also. Fin/boots moment… you can experiment, ski some go back to what felt better…

[BraceMaker]

If someone secretly moved your settings. 

Would you rather bindings 1/4" off or fin .010" off.  Does it change with which fit setting that .010 is?

[skialex]

@BraceMakeri wouldn’t like the 1/4" or the .010” depth without knowing, but my worst would be the 1/4". 1/4" can possibly hurt you especially if you are not aware of the change. I’m a big fun of the mikrojust… you can tell…

[Horton]

@BraceMaker .010 dft would be my nightmare 

[6balls]

Changing boot type is a monster if you are used to one particular type--can make all skis horrible.  

[aupatking]

@jgills88I think I’m understanding what some older threads had you thinking. When people running, let’s say Wiley’s, have asked if they should buy a new ski and put a Reflex setup on it EVERYONE jumps in saying NO, stick with your old boots when you go to a new ski. It’s really a function of keeping it to one variable. The ski will be, as @Hortonsaid, “a blank canvas”. You have no idea what the ski wants; does it like a lot of front foot pressure in the pre-turn, will it eat your lunch if you get tail heavy on the onside, etc., etc. If you get a TOTALLY different boot system, the inputs that you know work on the old boots may do something wildly different on the new setup. 

I stick to my original post at this point now. New boots on old ski, you’re still going to have to find the “right” boot placement, then go looking at fin. I MIGHT even consider taking the fin back to stock when I change to a very different boot... that one I can be pretty hard-headed on though and stay on old fin settings too long

[The_MS]

All of the above. 

[swbca]

The SKI used to be the principal setup component a long time ago

In the 70's and 80" skiers used sand paper, files, saws, and sometimes resin on their skis, sometimes right out of the box.  When I got a new Kidder ski Carl Roberge used sandpaper to reshape the bevels before I ever skied on it.  Same with Dave Saucier on a new Saucier ski I wanted to try.  They both had learned how to get a better starting point than the stock ski. 

So binding placement mattered back then but fin tuning was non existent.  The greatest setup effort in the 70's and 80' was the ski. 

Slicing and re-laminating  new skis . . . .

Modern skis have more rocker on the front half of the ski than the old skis.   In the 80's I sliced a Saucier and an EP slalom ski with a bandsaw so the front half of the top and bottom of the skis were separated from each other.  Then I used suitable resin to glue them back together with rocker similar to today's skis. 

Then I cut a Maharajah slalom ski down the middle and widened it from the heal of the front foot to the tip.  

Edited October 24, 2023 by swbca

[Horton]

So I am not really sure what the actual original question was. Seems like the automotive equivalent would be suspension, engine or the whole car.

You cannot ( if sane ) keep everything the same if you change skis. Changing skis is a many orders of magnitude bigger change than a tweak within normal limits on a known ski. 

With a single given ski if you are want to go outside of rational limits, fin or bindings could change things radically but not likely for the better.

Within normal limits and assuming we are starting from a rational baseline ( stock setting) I generally leave bindings alone. The next question is what are you trying to achieve? Sometimes fin is the only way to fix an issue and sometimes bindings is the only way.

 

[Drago]

@aupatking I think you're way over simplifying and at the same time overanalyzing this. Everything is important. Listen to the pros. It's much better to keep the variables to a minimum. Definitely if you're trying a new boot, keep the ski and fin settings the same. If you're trying a new ski, keep your boot and work on boot settings and fin settings.DFT is crucial and takes patience, depth and length matter, of course, but are "easier" to get "right" and if you're off a bit it doesn't affect you as much.

[mike_mapple]

Most important part. 

 

 

Edit: to add to this, I can not tell you how many people I watched tell my dad they needed the fin adjusted and he just turned around and did nothing but told them he did something and they went and skiied better. Dont get me wrong fin settings do make a change, but 80% of people are just telling them selves it will be better / worse. And iim sure most of you will say "oh I can tell" But I also know people who skied with him here that I know 100% he didnt touch a fin and then after the pass they said it felt much better. I think Mentally being open to a new ski/setting, what ever it might be is the most important part.

Edited October 25, 2023 by mike_mapple

[Drago]

@mike_mapple--what happens when you become the Baller of the Month?!

[mike_mapple]

19 hours ago, Drago said:

@mike_mapple--what happens when you become the Baller of the Month?!

I have that super sweet _ next to my baller so I cannot win it sadly, but i will continue to try! 

[Horton]

@mike_mapple I'll call Bill. I'm pretty sure I can convince him to give you a discount on some swag.

[mike_mapple]

21 hours ago, Horton said:

@mike_mapple I'll call Bill. I'm pretty sure I can convince him to give you a discount on some swag.

since the new site, im not just a BALLER_ no longer an industry professional, so idk if he can hook me up anymore. lol🤣 

[Horton]

Darn. I suck.