Electric towboat

[03RLXi]

Maybe this should be off topic since it's the wake barge but it might be ski boat future too so I put it in boats section 

https://arcboats.com/arc-sport

 

[Horton]

If the tech was really ready we would have electric ski boats. The factories have taken a very long hard look at it and passed.

[ReallyGottaSki]

[Ski2000]

Price is tough too

[buechsr]

Just now, Ski2000 said:

Price is tough too

For a 10,000#-capable setup, that's a bargain actually.  Add a Porsche 911 to that to get into a paragon.

[buechsr]

8 hours ago, Horton said:

If the tech was really ready we would have electric ski boats. The factories have taken a very long hard look at it and passed.

Appears that ingenity is still doing a GS22.  Notably, Boating Magazine's boat of the year in 2021.

[Horton]

@buechsr

GS22 not a ski boat

[ALPJr]

I kind of remember a post or two about a watersports business on Lake Tahoe using electric tow boats? 

[Horton]

let me rephrase my first post. electric boats are absolutely coming. Electric boats in the form factor of a slalom boat have been evaluated and at the moment they are economically and functionally impractical.

[MitchellM]

2 minutes ago, Horton said:

let me rephrase my first post. electric boats are absolutely coming. Electric boats in the form factor of a slalom boat have been evaluated and at the moment they are economically and functionally impractical.

Very well put.  We need a leap in battery technology to make this happen, but there is a lot of reward for those who find the solution.  I predict within 10 years.

[03RLXi]

I did like the tower bimini combo that appears to motor up and down. 

[chrislandy]

17 hours ago, Horton said:

let me rephrase my first post. electric boats are absolutely coming. Electric boats in the form factor of a slalom boat have been evaluated and at the moment they are economically and functionally impractical.

I believe it will take US legislative changes and/or US consumer pressure rather than economic. I know the US is the biggest market for these boats, I'm not sure what the market % is to Europe / Asia, but once you come out of the US fuel cost is very different and people already widely use alternative fuels.

For example in Europe, 99% of ski schools and private boat club lake boats run on lpg because of the cost difference yet none of the major boat manufacturers offer a factory fitted LPG system for this market (even though the tech is well developed, proven and the econtrols ECU can drive LPG injectors and I've heard can run petrol and lpg maps as duel fuel) why? Because the in the US it isn't a viable cheaper alternative.

Mastercraft Austria have an option retrofit as electric, so the market is there in certain countries. As I've mentioned in previous topics, I think Hydrogen Fuel Cell will be the answer, or small battery electric with quick and regular charges for ski school use.

[VONMAN]

 Electric powered ski boat can't come close to gas engine boat in power for a gallon of gas, price of investment, time and distance on the water, performance, and ease of re-powering (adding gas to the tank). A boat is always working/under load from parasitic drag of the water. The affect we are seeing in the electric truck market when towing. So when a battery package can be designed to weight 800 lbs lighter and be charged in less then 15 minutes and have a run time of at least 2 hours under full load, you would have a ski boat. Some small electric outboards have swappable  battery packs that offer power but low speed applications.

 I have seen Hydrogen Fuel Cell technology back around 1999/2000 for a vehicle. You would put water in a tank and there was a onboard reformer/refinery that would extract the Hydrogen from the water for fuel to the engine. Out the tail pipe was distilled water. So why did the technology stall out? Don't know and that was well over 23 years ago. (conspiracy theories here)

 So sadly I say the batteries you need are 20 years away to deliver a safe, light weight, long lasting punch that can equal one gallon of gas can. Sorry for the bad news.

 

[buechsr]

24 minutes ago, VONMAN said:

 Electric powered ski boat can't come close to gas engine boat in power for a gallon of gas, price of investment, time and distance on the water, performance, and ease of re-powering (adding gas to the tank). A boat is always working/under load from parasitic drag of the water. The affect we are seeing in the electric truck market when towing. So when a battery package can be designed to weight 800 lbs lighter and be charged in less then 15 minutes and have a run time of at least 2 hours under full load, you would have a ski boat. Some small electric outboards have swappable  battery packs that offer power but low speed applications.

 I have seen Hydrogen Fuel Cell technology back around 1999/2000 for a vehicle. You would put water in a tank and there was a onboard reformer/refinery that would extract the Hydrogen from the water for fuel to the engine. Out the tail pipe was distilled water. So why did the technology stall out? Don't know and that was well over 23 years ago. (conspiracy theories here)

 So sadly I say the batteries you need are 20 years away to deliver a safe, light weight, long lasting punch that can equal one gallon of gas can. Sorry for the bad news.

 

As posted by bluefishcay on another site:

“You can probably figure run time based on gallons per hour.  A gallon of gas is about 33kw of energy.  Assume gas engine is 25% efficient, each gallon would convert to about 9.2 kwh of electric battery used assuming 90% efficiency.  My boat (rlxi) uses about 5 gal per hour, so it would need about 46kwh to run for an hour, assuming you use 75% of a pack in that hour, you would need about a 60 kwh pack to make one hour of run time.   A pack that big is around 900 lbs assuming Tesla pack density.  So it might be achievable”

 

I would add to that that the typical home level 2 charger would refill a 60 kWh pack in 6 hours.  Level 3s are becoming far more common and can deliver up to 350 kWh.  Meaning it could deliver the 1 hour, 45 kWh “burned”, in less than 10 minutes.  

The tech is here.  Market demand and price justifications are the questions.  Not “refilling” in a quick way, it can be done.

As a recent electric vehicle(Rivian) convertee, I’m personally super stoked on anything electric.  In fact I’ll never buy another ICE vehicle again.  

[chrislandy]

32 minutes ago, VONMAN said:

 Electric powered ski boat can't come close to gas engine boat in power for a gallon of gas, price of investment, time and distance on the water, performance, and ease of re-powering (adding gas to the tank). A boat is always working/under load from parasitic drag of the water. The affect we are seeing in the electric truck market when towing. So when a battery package can be designed to weight 800 lbs lighter and be charged in less then 15 minutes and have a run time of at least 2 hours under full load, you would have a ski boat.

Yet, again, looking outside the US, gas/petrol is one of the most expensive fuels to run.

Parasitic drag imo is just a load case and an electric motor can provide it's full torque (easily outmatching the prop/boat/drag) until the motors max rpm/torque is achieved.

The 2 hour full load thing is an unrealistic KPI. A ski boat at a ski school if running slalom sets, will only be under load for 6-8mins of a 15-20min set  (about half the set) allowing for drop and instruction time and uses no power on "idle" and minimal power under in gear idle throttle. Most that I've seen have a 15min slot over 1.5-2 hours to refuel/WC break so that battery only has to be large enough to do 1hr (80%-20% drop) and the charger able to recharge that 1hr sized battery in 12-15mins.

Same goes for a 6-8 set evening at the lake, similar time driving/skiing, but you'd be starting from 100% rather than 80% and could go lower than 20% and have 20 odd hours to charge back up again for the next evening, or 8-10hrs if doing morning / evening sets

[ReallyGottaSki]

5 gph could be what one uses over an hour, but its not the usage rate, because the duty cycle is likely not an hour continuous.

5 gals will burn in about four 6 minute ski sessions in an efficient hull. Much more is needed on some of these zambonis.  

suggests gph is more like 15+. 

another way.. say about 140hp is needed to push these hulls at 34-36 mph steady state, and that could be low.. thats 105kW.  Plus more needed upon acceleration and speed compensation.

When they build a better viable product, things will correct themselves. before that its just force fit, the energy density is not close for carefree nor practical boating for the masses.  

[BGrow76]

As  @buechsr mentioned the tech is here now to do what 90% of us need a ski boat to do and the battery technology is increasing FAST. There will very soon be 100 kWh batteries that only weigh around 600 lbs and will charge from 20 to 80% in 15 minutes or less. The future is bright!

[buechsr]

2 minutes ago, BGrow76 said:

As  @buechsr mentioned the tech is here now to do what 90% of us need a ski boat to do and the battery technology is increasing FAST. There will very soon be 100 kWh batteries that only weigh around 600 lbs and will charge from 20 to 80% in 15 minutes or less. The future is bright!

Thats here right now with any remotely decent curve. That would only be 60 kWh.  A 300 kw charger would do that in 12 minutes.  A more moderate 100 kw would do it in about 30.  Instant torque, no maintenance, and silence?  I like an inboard sound like everyone else, but there is something futuristic driving an EV truck.  I’m excited.

[Tim]

We know there are companies that are already investing R & D in electric powered boats. I am seeing wake boats, bass boats, runabouts, tenders, outboard engines and more. Can an electric powered 3 event ski boat be built? Yes. The question is, how can the sport of water skiing increase the market for 3 event ski boats so boat manufactures will be convinced to invest R & D money in electric powered versions? I sure hope there is an answer. 

https://www.mby.com/features/best-electric-boats-116768 

https://alliancewake.com/gear/supra-and-evoa-announce-electrifying-partnership-to-revolutionize-the-towed-water-sports-market/ 

[o2bnMaine]

I see the biggest barriers for electric (battery powered) boats are charging times (and getting the 50amp (or more!) service to the dock) and the ridiculous charge times (4-5 hours). A hydrogen fuel cell powered electric boat would cut down on the weight, charging times etc., but who knows when or how we'd get hydrogen to a dock! Yeah, I don't see boats as being an early adopter of electric power trains just yet. I am excited for it though. 

[Fastguy888]

I look forward to seeing this technology continue to emerge. Currently love the power of my 30 year old Tige SLM Comp with Big Block and EFI. 

Need batteries with potential energy per pound close to the energy per pound in petrol. Currently the best lithium batteries are about 100 to 1. (electric motors and gearboxes typically weigh less than eclectic ones so there is that factor)

Need batteries that can become structural part of hull rather than in addition to the hull (this tech is emerging) - Would then need the hull/battery to either last the life of a boat with a good recycle program or be able to be reasonably refurbished. 

 

 

 

 

[GaryJanzig]

Since batteries are so heavy a ski boat will have to be designed where they are removable. The weight is okay for a surf and wakeboard boat, but not for a ski boat.  The batteries would have to be designed to be a bunch of small removable modules. You could buy enough of them where you could use the boat while some of them are charging and just keep swapping them out. The electric Ski Nautique prototype is a good start, but the entire interior is taken up by the battery. You would only need the electric motor, cooling system, cruise control, and going from forward neutral in and reverse would just be tripping a switch. The rest of the spaces that would be taken up by the engine and fuel tank could be used for batteries.

[Tim]

Yamaha Unveils World's First Hydrogen-Powered Outboard Engine: A Leap Towards Sustainable Boating

https://bnnbreaking.com/tech/yamaha-unveils-worlds-first-hydrogen-powered-outboard-engine-a-leap-towards-sustainable-boating

[thager]

Hindenburg Two?  😁

[rawly]

On 2/26/2024 at 9:38 AM, thager said:

Hindenburg Two?  😁

[thager]

Technically yes with some other fall guys...

[Rednucleus]

Posted on PlanetNautique this week - now all you need is the hull.

https://www.planetnautique.com/vb5/forum/nautique-topics/official-correct-craft-news/watershed-innovations/674381-ingenity-launches-mcrate