Feasibility of 3D printing custom VersaTail

[jerseysfinest]

Would the lower weight of nylon and carbon fiber compared to metal lead to poor balance of the ski? Looking to attempt to  make some custom tails but before, I want to ensure it won't be a waste of time. Want to experiment with shape, but more so possibly a longer tail to lengthen total ski. Also I'm unsure if the nylon the piece will be made from will flex too much under pressure and bend or snap. Thoughts?

[Horton]

I don't think weight is a factor at all. Durability and stiffness obviously are.

[skialex]

You would need to use a material that withstand the pressure and most importantly the sun heat. Definitely don’t use PLA or PETg. They might coop with the pressure if not over tightened, but heat… they won’t cut it…

[hacker]

@JPeckham has done it. 

[swaterkd]

Jason and Nick have made hundreds of different tails.  Some are very interesting.

[Horton]

just to clarify VersaTails are plastic not metal.

[jerseysfinest]

@Hortonhaha good to know, dont ask me how I thought the Versa Tails I have been using for 2+ years were metal.... not plastic. 🤦‍♂️

 

 

@JPeckhamwould you or nick be willing to share the digital models of your VersaTails? I dont have prior experience with Computer Aided Design, but thought I might as well use the 3D printing resources my university provides.

And any recommendations of material to use from the following: PLA, PETG, PVA, TPU, SLA "resin", NinjaFlex, Nylon, Photopolymer resin, and Onyx (a mixture of Nylon and Carbon Fiber). There's also fiber reinforcement: Fiberglass, Kevlar, Carbon Fiber.

The goal of this is to have some fun and experiment mainly with getting my 67 to ski more like a 68. LMK if there are previous threads with info on this- couldn't find any. 

Thanks

[Horton]

@jerseysfinest This should be a fun project and a learning experience but be aware that you will never make a 67 ski feel like the 68 inch version of the same ski by changing the tail.

[jerseysfinest]

47 minutes ago, Horton said:

@jerseysfinest This should be a fun project and a learning experience but be aware that you will never make a 67 ski feel like the 68 inch version of the same ski by changing the tail.

Understood. Due to the extra length not increasing total surface area much? 

[Horton]

@jerseysfinest 

It is possible that adding an inch to the back of the ski could make it better ( or worse )

When a ski company sizes up or down from the origin ski they go into the cad and scale the whole ski by 1/66th-ish. The change in width or the relationship between the bindings and the rocker line are just a few things that matter.   

[Drago]

... although... Back in the Day, iconn made a c-6 67 by adding to a 66. Definitely their best ski that year. 

[Horton]

@Drago 

Show me a man who believes that he truly understands ski design and I will show you a man who is mistaken. 

[jerseysfinest]

This is what sparked the idea- https://www.connellyskis.com/pages/versatail ,the extended tail option listed VT+ that is only for 63 DV8 to make it a 65. I think it might be more of a significant difference in this case because the base of the block is a U shape instead of flat but I can’t tell for sure. Tried reaching out to engineers at Connelly but they haven’t gotten back to me about why they don’t offer an extended tail for the larger skis. Prob would have same reasoning as @Horton but hope to hear back. 

[Horton]

@jerseysfinest

The engineer at Connelly is Doug and he is an awesome guy but he is busy and hard to get on the phone. I think when working with kids skis there's different performance threshold and or sometimes need for a completely different shape. My little girl made a ton of progress on a ski that was a '65 with a tail cut off so now it was a 63. If you took a 68 and chopped it down to a 67 and handed it to me it would not have the same effect. 

[nleuth]

Here is a picture of all the different tails I have tried. It is a fun process. I do all my designs with Fusion 360 and print with an Ender 3 and PLA, which for prototyping is fine, but not for longevity. The Versatail is a great way to customize your ski for you beyond binding and fin adjustments. I know of  a few of us who make our own tails, and we all have different preferences, thus different tails. Creating a longer tail in order to add to the length of the ski is possible, but it won't necessarily make it ski like the next size up. There is too much else going on the other aspects of the ski design. But you can make larger tails and definitely make the ski behave differently. Have fun with the process, there is a lot to learn!

[Drago]

3 hours ago, Horton said:

@Drago 

Show me a man who believes that he truly understands ski design and I will show you a man who is mistaken. 

@Horton to be clear--I am not on any way saying I understand ski construction. I’m emphasizing your point⬆️

[UCFskier]

I say giver to have fun but dont get lost in the micro......   ski school, training, repetition, etc

 

I once saw a team Canada dude run a PB with his fin set front to back in his ski....  (he didn't know it was changed)  just saying

 

[jerseysfinest]

@UCFskierdefinitely and at my level especially these micro adjustments dont mean much at all. I did however definitely notice a difference in turns and wake crossings using the different blocks on the DV8. I think it will be cool to test out and have some fun while also getting a different feel skiing without having to change skis, regardless of performance changes which will likely be negligible.

[Horton]

@Drago

same back at you

[jerseysfinest]

Connelly engineering team got back to me:

My engineering team has said that they have and are considering including it with larger skis, but that there is no definitive decision yet. If I hear anything in the future, I will try my best to let you know.

 

[LK_skier]

On 4/13/2024 at 11:47 AM, nleuth said:

Here is a picture of all the different tails I have tried. It is a fun process. I do all my designs with Fusion 360 and print with an Ender 3 and PLA, which for prototyping is fine, but not for longevity. The Versatail is a great way to customize your ski for you beyond binding and fin adjustments. I know of  a few of us who make our own tails, and we all have different preferences, thus different tails. Creating a longer tail in order to add to the length of the ski is possible, but it won't necessarily make it ski like the next size up. There is too much else going on the other aspects of the ski design. But you can make larger tails and definitely make the ski behave differently. Have fun with the process, there is a lot to learn!

Thats cool - I had the white long one at the bottom of your picture - I stupidly left it in a hot boat and it bent out of shape 😞  I had one 3d printed as close as I could but it just didn't seem the same.  It felt really good in glassy water but in the chop I kept blowing the fin on my offside.  I might go back to it as it did help me run more passes due to the lift and less impact on the body.

[BraceMaker]

@LK_skier run it in ASA and model two channels in the part for metal pins to be inserted from the other end sized so you can thread stainless allthread into the holes don't bother trying to thread just warm the allthread with a heatgun in your drill chuck and run them in.  then you can cut those off flush with a zip disk and the plastic part is confined.  I don't have a connelly so I haven't tried building these but that's my technique for brackets in cars the threaded rod is a cheap fast way to internally pin the part right through potential weak points.  If there is a local olympic archery range another easy material to snag for this is their "bent" arrow shafts which are bent by a few thousandths over a length of ~28" model the hole for a very slight interference which just print a test block of holes around the size of the shaft then insert with a bit of epoxy and you have a part that is extremely resistant to warping.

[jerseysfinest]

On 4/16/2024 at 9:36 AM, BraceMaker said:

If there is a local olympic archery range another easy material to snag for this is their "bent" arrow shafts which are bent by a few thousandths over a length of ~28" model the hole for a very slight interference which just print a test block of holes around the size of the shaft then insert with a bit of epoxy and you have a part that is extremely resistant to warping.

I have placed a hole in the center with a diameter of 0.282 inches to fit a standard 9/32" diameter arrow shaft. Does this look OK? Should the hole be exactly the same diameter as shaft, or a little smaller/bigger?

[BraceMaker]

When I use this technique I draw a block with a row of holes in progressive sizes like doing a tolerance test in the material I plan on using.  Then I can do a dry run and pick the tolerance for my part.  Same with any interface dials it in fast because it also depends on other settings in your print.