New to collegiate skiing and chronically on back of ski

[samstenzel]

Hi Everyone! I've been free skiing on a slalom ski since my childhood and joined the waterski team at UT Austin this semester. Starting to experience competition skiing has been an amazing and addictive experience for me. I have had about 4-5 solid days (2-3 sets per day) starting to run the course. I competed in my first tournament last week and was able to get 4.5 buoys at 24 mph. Since I've been skiing recreationally for years, I feel very comfortable on the ski and have been told my position is mostly decent, but when running the course, I am frequently on the back of the ski. I can get the start gates and 1 and 2 ball very consistently, but am struggling to reach 3 and after. Through the wake, I feel mostly on the front of the ski with my hips extended and knees slightly bent forward, but on each turn, I return to the back despite my best efforts to keep my weight forward. Sometimes, when trying to shift my weight forward, I subconsciously throw my chest forward and hips back, which I know is incorrect. I also tend to pull too long if I get behind in the course, which I realize makes things worse. I am working on practicing a better edge change and coast in the pre-turn. Regarding being on the front of the ski, I have read many posts and heard advice about bending in the front ankle, keeping hips extended, and standing up tall and stacked, but I am having a challenging time putting this into practice. When I go back to free skiing I am told my position is quite good, but there is a disconnect when I put it to the course. I realize I am still very new to this, and that is probably a big factor, but am eager to hear any advice y'all could provide.

Also, I have started trick skiing when tired after slalom sets and can do both side slides and back onside 180, but I am struggling with the return. I feel stable moving backward, but when I turn back forward, it feels like I catch an edge and keep falling forward. I'm unsure how to resolve this. I imagine with practice, it will come, but I am curious if anyone has any insight.

[jpwhit]

Do you have any coaching available through the team? That can be from a coach or from a more experienced members on a team. I would encourage you to find one person to coach you. In slalom, you generally need to focus on fixing one thing at a time. So having a lot of different people tell you things to do, often isn't helpful. Everything happens so fast, that you can't think about multiple things, and you often have to commit that "thing" you're trying to fix to muscle memory so it does unfortunately take some time. 

[chrislandy]

Sounds to me that you're just having trouble transitioning from free skiing to timed course skiing. i.e. the balls come up very quickly and you're panicking / rushing.

If you're position is reasonable free skiing, then I'd try skiing the course (not trying to get the outer buoys) but concentrating on the timing for cut, transition, turn and getting your turns in approximately the same location each side while not getting slack. Then once you've got the timing you'll find the balls come easier.

Don't concentrate on the entry gates, if you get them great, if not, keep going.

Don't try to just get through speeds, work on position and timing at lower speeds first. 

[UWSkier]

24 is really slow to try to work on body position unless you're on a very wide ski. Even on my Radar Terrain wide ride I feel like I am sinking below 28 mph. 

How fast do you free ski? I'd start by dropping the boat speed 2-4 mph from that and just work on spraying the buoys and don't even think about gates yet. 

[BlueSki]

If you are in Austin, try to get to Trent Finlayson near San Marcos. He can tell you what fundamentals to emphasize. Then plan to go back to him again as time and budget allow. 

[samstenzel]

4 hours ago, jpwhit said:

Do you have any coaching available through the team? 

I do, yes! I work primarily with one of my teammates who's competed internationally and he's been a huge help so far. I get coaching from other teammates as well, though, which is helpful, but sometimes the conflicting advice is confusing.

 

3 hours ago, chrislandy said:

Sounds to me that you're just having trouble transitioning from free skiing to timed course skiing. i.e. the balls come up very quickly and you're panicking / rushing...Don't try to just get through speeds, work on position and timing at lower speeds first. 

 

Yeah, that sounds about right. It's much faster-paced than I'm used to, and I find it challenging to find that pendular rhythm. I'll definitely try your tip, thanks! Also, I'm not focused on speeds at all yet. I am trying to figure out how to run the course with the proper position before I even consider going faster.

 

1 hour ago, UWSkier said:

24 is really slow to try to work on body position unless you're on a very wide ski...How fast do you free ski?

 

I think I free-skied around 26-28 because 24 did feel quite slow at first. Now that I'm more used to it, it feels mostly manageable but sometimes slow, like I'm sinking and can't cut as hard as I'd like. I wasn't sure if this was a result of the speed, being on the back of the ski, or both.

 

12 minutes ago, BlueSki said:

If you are in Austin, try to get to Trent Finlayson near San Marcos. He can tell you what fundamentals to emphasize. Then plan to go back to him again as time and budget allow. 

 

That name sounds familiar, I think my teammate might ski with him. I'll definitely look him up.

[Rednucleus]

What ski are you using?

[samstenzel]

2 hours ago, Rednucleus said:

What ski are you using?

I’ve used a few different skis. Growing up I was on a 90s HO slalom ski, once I joined the team I started using a mid-2000s syndicate, but I recently got a great deal on a used D3 Neo 66” and have started using that the last couple sessions.

[Rednucleus]

I'm just a 15 off, 30-32mph guy, but the syndicate & D3 are not going to be happy at your current speeds. I would start free skiing at 30-32mph with your coach guidence, then may no slower that 28 in the course.  You are probably also seeing monster wakes at those slower speeds. I am on an HO 2017 Superlite CX; I can run the course at 28mph but way more effort than 30, and 32 a fun spped when I'm skiing well. 

[jpwhit]

How many more tournaments does the team have this spring? Are you trying to score points for the team at tournaments this spring or do they already have the 5 men point scorers...assuming they still count the top 5 point scorers in each discipline for Men and Women. 

If you are trying to score points this spring, then as @Rednucleus suggests, you need a bigger ski for the slower speeds. And staying slower will allow you the time to get more buoys. If you're not in a position or interesting in scoring points at the tournaments remaining this spring. Then I would speed up and focus on the rhythm of the course without necessarily going around the balls. 

But again, I would try to stick with the single best coach on the team, and listen to them. And the best coach isn't always the best skier. The best coach is often the person that can express what you need to work on in terms that resonate with you. 

Do you have the opportunity to ski and get coaching this summer in the off season for the team? What year are you in school? How many more seasons do you have to ski on the team? 

[samstenzel]

25 minutes ago, jpwhit said:

How many more tournaments does the team have this spring? Are you trying to score points for the team at tournaments this spring or do they already have the 5 men point scorers...assuming they still count the top 5 point scorers in each discipline for Men and Women. 

If you are trying to score points this spring, then as @Rednucleus suggests, you need a bigger ski for the slower speeds. And staying slower will allow you the time to get more buoys. If you're not in a position or interesting in scoring points at the tournaments remaining this spring. Then I would speed up and focus on the rhythm of the course without necessarily going around the balls. 

But again, I would try to stick with the single best coach on the team, and listen to them. And the best coach isn't always the best skier. The best coach is often the person that can express what you need to work on in terms that resonate with you. 

Do you have the opportunity to ski and get coaching this summer in the off season for the team? What year are you in school? How many more seasons do you have to ski on the team? 

 

We've got two tournaments: one this weekend (Fleur de ski) and another the following weekend. I'm on the B team, but my coach says I'll eventually pass up the guy in the fifth slot at my current rate of improvement. I hope to make the top five point scorers by next year. For that reason, I'm not trying to go for points this spring; I'm more interested in familiarizing myself with the course and running a full pass. I'll definitely try that. My rhythm feels inconsistent right now, and I bet would benefit from specific practice on it.

I am going to be in Houston for an internship this summer and hoping to find a place to ski. One of my teammates has some places in mind. I'm a freshman so I've got 3 solid years ahead of me on the team.

[Kelvin]

20 minutes ago, samstenzel said:

I am going to be in Houston for an internship this summer and hoping to find a place to ski. One of my teammates has some places in mind. I'm a freshman so I've got 3 solid years ahead of me on the team.

@samstenzel Ask your current and former teammates.  I'm your skiing source in the Houston area.  I'll catch up with you at the Pony Express tournament the end of the month.

 

[jpwhit]

52 minutes ago, samstenzel said:

 

We've got two tournaments: one this weekend (Fleur de ski) and another the following weekend. I'm on the B team, but my coach says I'll eventually pass up the guy in the fifth slot at my current rate of improvement. I hope to make the top five point scorers by next year. For that reason, I'm not trying to go for points this spring; I'm more interested in familiarizing myself with the course and running a full pass. I'll definitely try that. My rhythm feels inconsistent right now, and I bet would benefit from specific practice on it.

I am going to be in Houston for an internship this summer and hoping to find a place to ski. One of my teammates has some places in mind. I'm a freshman so I've got 3 solid years ahead of me on the team.

Ok, good plan. With your background in slalom, you'll be able to make fast progress. So focusing on improving your technique now and then focus on scoring points in your next 3 years will pay dividends. 

If you're ever in the Raleigh / Research Triangle Park area then let me know. Lots of places to ski here. My twin daughters skied on the UNC Ski Team. Unfortunately, that team is dormant now. But they really loved collegiate skiing.  

[jjackkrash]

13 hours ago, samstenzel said:

That name sounds familiar, I think my teammate might ski with him. I'll definitely look him up.

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