eddie_roberts_jr

I'll be able to measure the binding placement in a little bit but you can't be too far off base if you put your Radar bindings in the middle set of holes to start. That drives Horton nuts, which is a good thing.

Hey Flyboy, when you gonna do a flyover and wing dip over Radar? Long time no hear from!

Okay so I lied. Brooks was on the Katana not the Butterknife! Both are awesome skis that rip at slower speeds. They told me the sixties were going to catch up with me!

Butterknife!

Boat speed was somewhere between 34 and 28/;) actually pretty close to 30. Hadn't gassed an outboard with a skier behind in a long time, especially someone skiing at 38 off. Hands were full.

Hey Ty, You're obviously through the surgery by now and I'm hoping and guessing it went well. You've always had a great attitude and a close family and that will go a long ways. Good luck on your recovery and say hi to your Dad for me.

If you're loving the ski I wouldn't change a darn thing. The only time you might possibly feel any difference would be if you are using the little "neck washers" at the tip and tail of the Sequence Plate which allow a slight bit more flex by not restricting those areas of the ski.

If anyone has a rope that is out of tolerance we will certainly replace it. We will definitely be looking into it. Thanks for the heads up!

Jeff "Roy" Rodgers

John not being there does make it a little more inviting.

@OldboyII 2017 67" Senate Lithium - 3lb. 4.1 oz. 67" Senate Graphite - 3lb. 15.1 oz. Both skis blank w/o fins. I can't imagine one ski being more fragile than the other. They are both all carbon with the Lithium having the lighter core. If you are interested in the Lithium you might want to start calling around. Performance has a few left but mostly just one of each size.

Slight headwind?

TallSkinnyGuy What exactly is this "perfectly good measurement system" of which you speak? We have a chart in our brochure and online and we would hate to pigeonhole anyone into thinking there is a hard line to the skis performance. We sell thousands of skis worldwide both high end and mid range and if a skier has their heart set on a Senate Lithium and they are not, let's say, a 35 off skier that ski will not be too much for them and may even help them to attain that level of skiing. The Graphite Senate is the same exact ski but has the slightly heavier P.U. core and won't have quite as much acceleration so it should be easier to slow down for the skiers still working on that skill. The 2107 Lyrics are built from the same mold and I have a friend who gets well into 38 off at 34 M.P.H. on his 65" Lyric.The Senates are definitely not shortline 36 M.P.H. skis. Doesn't seem confusing to me. If you have a very specific question - we'd like to hear it. I hope you get a chance to try one out!

jcadden63 I think the 2017 Senate would be better for you through 34 MPH and probably even through 32 off at that speed but it would be a bit of a challenge at 36 and any kind of short line.

I ski on both the 2017 Senate Lithium and the 2017 Vapor Probuild and neither is difficult to get out of deep water but the Senate is definitely easier. Both are 67" and I use double boots. I can also ski a couple more passes on the Senate and still climb back up on the dock without assistance/:)

Another thing I've done is to have the skier, when they are riding on combos, pick one ski completely up off the water and ski a little ways and then alternate to the other foot and see which way was more comfortable then let them make the decision.

The 69" Senate will still have more surface area than the 69.5" Vapor. I certainly wouldn't want to talk you out of the Vapor because it sounds like you're ready for it but the '17 Senates are amazing and definitely have a larger performance window than any of our previous model years. Hard to say. Any chance to demo one or the other?

The Senates are built at our facility in China where only our skis and wake boards are made. 4 Square One employees are there all of the time and several of us take trips throughout the year to monitor production and R & D new products. The quality is top notch! All of the Vapors and Graviton Tricks are made here at Radar Lake.

I think Cole meant to say the Senate is .2" wider than the same size Vapor.

Skiing with Drew one time he told me to bring the handle back in a little quicker on my offside. Actually, he told me to sneak it in a little quicker. I must have been leaving it out there too long because as soon as I started doing it I skied better. Who knew? Drewbie did - that's who.

I like to just let them dry on their own and then later ask someone " hey, do these smell funny to you?"

Good question, hadn't thought of that.

Skied yesterday at Radar. Water 42, air 45. definitely worth doing. 1st ride of the year and starting to feel it.

The flex difference between the Lithium and Probuild is very minute. The Probuild Is right at 1/4 lb lighter. The 15 off skier is probably not going to see a lot of difference in performance, maybe a bit more acceleration. Turning characteristics are very, very similar. The PMI core of the Probuild lends a slightly damper feel to wake crossings and the ski is going to be a bit faster off the ball as well which will definitely be a plus for the 32 off skier. That being said, there is nothing inherent in the construction and performance of the Probuild that will hold back the 15 off skier. The Lithium has been a great ski and would be a good way to save some money but as someone once said " If you're going to New York, why would you want to get off in Chicago?" Just sayin'.

@Dacon62 Wing or no wing I'd go with the same fin dimensions although you should at least try it with the wing at some point. The '17 Senate is low drag to begin with so 7 or 8 degrees on the wing might feel pretty good to you.