escmanaze

Price can depend a lot on location. @Wish might see those kinds of deals on slalom rides in Orlando, but I really don't think most of the rest of the nation is seeing those kinds of prices at all, maybe Texas. I would say if it's the boat you want, then certainly try to get it for a reasonable price, don't get ripped off, but don't also save a couple hundred or even a couple grand for a boat you don't actually really like. You're going to end up blowing a lot more than a couple grand on this thing in the long run. And count me as one more guy who doesn't mind the N swoop. My 97 doesn't have it, but I still think it's not bad. I'll tell you what's bad, those Mastercraft hips. I stopped in at the dealer the other day and they had 2 old holdover still hanging around that didn't have the hips. Those two were the prettiest boats in the place. I really hope that doesn't last. Crap, I hope I didn't just hi-jack your thread.

That is really encouraging to hear that the boat manufacturers could easily make a better multi-purpose boat if only the governing body would pull their head out and change the rule. That seems like the dumbest rule of all time?

I can't speak much for the 94 prostar, but I do own a 97 SNOB and absolutely love it. Being 3 years older, I would guess that you might be able to get a 94 PS190 for a little less money, but I don't think it would be a lot less. I know you won't be disappointed with the TSC1 hull. I wasn't.

@fatroll, that heel side hero nickname is my favorite thing I've encountered all month. I wakeboard and wakeskate, and there is nothing I love more than some sweet bro who has one trick in the bag to show off for the ladies...heelside go big!!! I've actually done exactly what bracemaker did. I found the 3 foot deep section of the lake and bought myself a DD. I actually considered getting a big wakeboard boat, but then realized, there isn't a single public spot in the state where you actually have water deep enough and smooth enough to enjoy it. I was ready to give up boating altogether before I found this 3 foot deep spot. The wakeboarders and wakesurfers are on thing, but the ones that really drive me nuts are the tubers. How can people really be entertained with that, saturday after saturday over and over again tubing. Must be the same people who watch reality tv I guess.

Ha ha ha!! According to @jimbrake, I am not a skier. Well, actually, I already knew that. I am a powderhound. Most often, I'm able to get most of my powder fix on a snowmobile, but I do enjoy getting it on a pair of snowskis as well. Shoot, I've had great times on a plastic sled or a tube as long as there is 3 feet of fresh powder. So actually, @jimbrake is correct. I'm not a skier, I'm not a snowmobiler, I'm not a tuber. I'm just pure 100% powderhound. When the snow hardens up...here...you can have it.

And here is an 05 up for $26k but I would be my left arm he won't get that much for it. Not around here anyway. http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&ad=26289694&cat=147&lpid=2&search=malibu&ad_cid=4

Here is an 04 in my neck of the woods for 20. http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&ad=26496375&cat=147&lpid=1&search=malibu&ad_cid=9

I'm a little surprised to see everybody care about the trick wake so much. Do you care about it because you enjoy the occasional wakeboard/wakeskate run like me, or do you guys actually still trick ski sometimes? I don't trick ski at all, so now I have another question out of curiosity. If you were at a tournament, and the Txi was pulling everybody around for slalom, would the Txi then be allowed to put the wedge down for trick skiing? I don't know the rules at tournaments to know if that is ok or not. It seems to me like this problem could be easily solved with a factory orderable option (just like the tower) of some hard piped ballast tanks to add 500-1,000 pounds of ballast. The people ordering the ballast option are also ordering the tower option, and towers can store so darn much stuff that it doesn't matter that the ballasts fill up and take up all the storage space...right?

That will be interesting to try. I will give it a whirl next time I'm out and see how it goes. at 34 mph I could just ski the Jr. Buoys. I'll report back.

@MIskier, I don't really have a measurement on exactly how much setup I get. I ski on little tucked away corners of a public lake, so really I get about as much as I really care to have. After exiting the course, I can decide whether I want to go out 50 yards or 300 yards before I turn around or drop. There are a few exceptions to this when the lake levels get low, and in those cases, I would estimate that I probably still get 100 yards of setup. So in the end, I usually give myself a good bit of setup, and it sounds like maybe that is another part of the reason that I don't have any problems. Also, as you mention, the low speed skiing might be helping as well.

I probably should clarify my comment about my zbox working great even though my wife crams the gas and then just lets off a little. I rode a couple passes today without the course being mapped and I was surprised at how much it threw me off. I think the course mapping makes a big difference. Also, neither I, nor my friend, are shortline skiers yanking the boat around as maybe other people would to be messing with it. We're both just 15 off guys anywhere from 26 up to 32 mph. Neither of us are huge either. He is 160, I am 180.

@xrated put my feelings into words. It's really hard for me to call it "Family Time" when one kid is out on the soccer field and the other 4 and the parents are all in the stands watching. I would definitely prefer a day with the whole family on the lake, or mountain biking, snowmobiling, or dirt biking. I think each kid should have a balanced mix between the individual sports done with the family and the team sports done with their peers, but that's my whole point, is that basketball, volleyball, soccer etc. are all sports where you enjoy peer time making friends that might just last a lifetime and be like family, and then there are also real "family sports" that can be done as a family. Anyway, like I said, I knew that a ton of you would disagree with me, shoot, every one of my 5 siblings disagrees with me, and that is fine, I just don't think that one kid's choice to play basketball should necessarily equal a commitment from both parents and all the other kids as well. We can agree to disagree on that one.

I guess I see life a little differently. If my kid wants to play basketball, football, volleyball, baseball, whatever (but not soccer) then that is fine with me. But I don't plan to attend every game and every practice. I really don't even plan to take him to every game and every practice. Bikes and carpools should be able to go a long way in freeing up my schedule. So while I agree that Soccer and Gymnastics should stop them from skiing, I don't see any reason for it to stop you from skiing?

That's exactly right @Than_Bogan. I haven't yet met anybody who skis the course who has said to me "Oh, I just wasn't having fun anymore because it was too easy." I think that when our equipment makes up for our faults and allows us to ski / ride bikes at even higher levels than we would have otherwise done, it actually makes the sport more fun instead of less fun. Does a Ferrari allow you to do a lap in 30 seconds that would take 60 seconds in the Nissan Sentra? Yes - That's why it's so dang fun to drive!!!

I just bought a new really expensive mountain bike 2 years ago after riding my same old hardtail since 95 that was built in 91. Does it make it "easier" to go down hills and off drops? Yes absolutely. Does that also make the sport a lot more fun? Yes absolutely. The average summer will only put me on the lake 15 times a season, so I don't plan on running -38 any time soon. However, do I have a lot more fun because I have a boat/ski combination that helps me run 32 mph at -15 instead of just 28 mph at -15? Yes, absolutely. For a guy who waterskis 200 days a year and runs -38 no problem and simply doesn't have the physical attributes to make it to 39, maybe the equipment spoiled him by getting him to his plateau a bit too soon, so maybe he gets bored being at that plateau all the time. But that won't happen to me any time soon, so I'm not too worried about it. Bring on the best equipment possible!!

I don't live on a private lake. I'm definitely not going to plan on carrying around a bunch of plate weights all around the lake. Mastercraft used to offer the X-7. which was a 197 but with some wakeboard options on it. I wonder if there will be an X version of this boat where I would have the option of loading water ballast into the rear and/or the passenger side in order to help out the trick wake?

Weird, I keep seeing everybody saying you can't cram zbox and then let up? I have a 97 snob, that's exactly what I tell my wife to do - I want out of the water as fast as I can get out. I do the same thing with my friend skiing on the back. So far no complaints from me or him and with the course mapped, my time is perfect every time. Maybe I'll have to start watching closer as I pull him to see if the speed is varying greatly? It doesn't seem like it while skiing.

I'm in much the same position so I'm excited to see what you do and get updates. After gaining weight and not skiing enough, I finally this year upgraded my 15 year old 67" ski and got myself a large 69" senate that doesn't have any problem staying on top of the water even at 180 or even 185 pounds when I have to run those "confidence" runs down at 28 mph. However, I have a feeling that if I start to reach my goals of getting up to 34 mph and losing the weight I want to lose to get back down to 160, this ski will be a giant surfboard and I'll be in the market for a smaller ski that is ready for 34 mph and -15. My thought has been to stick with the common feel and just upgrade to a 66" or 67" vice, vice-c, or even strada, if the vapor causes a firesale of stradas. I'm not dead set on that yet though (and I'm not yet running 34, so I don't have to worry about it just yet either) so I will look forward to staying tuned to your post and seeing what you end up with and what you think about it.

Thanks for taking that shot Horton. That slow stuff is my main concern and it looks like they did very well. That is very exciting.

Knowing what I know of CAD modeling and fluid dynamics modeling, I find it interesting that in 2013, we are still designing ski boat hulls one iteration after another. I suppose technology hasn't hit quite the level that I thought it had.

@horton I'll hope that's your reason and look forward to hearing back a report.

Add a +1 to that. My boat hasn't even been to 34 a single time this year. I'm just not a good enough skier, and I'm the best skier my boat sees. I would love to see the manufacturers focus on small wakes at slow speeds and long lines.

For What it's worth, I also heavily considered the 20i and the outback in my hunting. I also at one point even considered the Centurion open bow sport, I think it was. What I found was this: For the price range and/or the year range I was in, I was finding a lot of moombas, centurions, and Tiges that were missing one or two of my two key features. The two key features were fuel injection on the motor and no wood in the build. In the late 90's, MC, CC, and Bu had all completely standardized in this direction, so by about 98, I think, you know that any boat you find from the big 3 will have no wood, and EFI. However, I found a very large number of boats from moomba, centurion, and tige from the late 90's and even early 2000's that did not have EFI, or were still built with wood stringers. I had just decided that if I was going to pay mid-teens, I was definitely walking away with a boat that had EFI and no wood. One more thing to think about.

That is a very educational link. Thanks for putting that on here. It makes me excited to go dink around with it and see what I feel behind the boat. I assume that the basics of the settings are the same for my PPZbox right? I'm currently set on B2, and looking at that graph on the bottom makes me wonder if I might like it a little better on A2 or maybe even A1.

And yes that SNOB on the craigslist ad above looks like quite the awesome deal. Like I said, I love my SNOB. Really, you could throw a tower on it (I'll be murdered on this forum for saying that) and get all the boards out of the boat and onto the tower, and then it would me much more roomy inside for people once the sticks are all out of the boat. Even with a tower, it will offer a much nicer ski wake than the 205 with no tower. Like I said, it really is in large part just a tradeoff between space and wake.