mmosley899

@dchristman that is why no one boot works for everybody, different shaped feet! The 'Supershell" has a much wider toebox than the other Reflex boots. The Powershell is somewhat in between. The Radar Profile boot has a bigger volume than the Vapor. The Connelly boot has a slimmer fit than some others. They all have their own 'feel' as to how they ski. My boot mods link.

@skialex definitely any change to the boot would affect how it felt and how it would react to your input! It would take some getting used to.

@Deep11 I ship stuff all over the world, shouldn't be a problem getting you liners if you can't find someone with them there.

@ALPJr closer is not always better. Steven Schnitzer has a good explanation of binding spacing on his website. I use size 10 boots and my spacing is at 12". Also I cut 3/4" off the front of my rear boot and the liner still does not stick out. @skialex I have always removed the 'heel tongues' from my boots so that I was not restricted in my ankle flex, allowing me to move my center of mass forward over my front foot easier. This does not create an issue with Achilles safety since the cuff movement forward is stopped by the cuff buckle striking the top arch area of the boot before over flexion forward. @adamhcaldwell in the early "90"s i was running Connelly boots with no bottom, no pad and no plate. Foot directly on the ski. I switched to hardshell boots in '93. The hardshell boot gave so much more control than I previously had, I have not tried to go that far again. I have lowered my boots as much as practical on my release system, but perhaps some of your ideas are adaptable to my setup. I have never been bothered by the additional height off the ski common to most current ski boots. But I think that Adam's ideas on connection to the ski are worth trying! There are a lot of items that you can adjust, but as I have said before, each skier has to figure out what works best for him.

I use the Intuition Aqua liner in my Supershell. They hold up better also.

@Jaypro I evaluated those boots and rejected them as unsuitable for water skiing, too stiff and sit up too high. If you want a soft fit boot, look to the Radar or Connelly boots. Either boot can be used on my release system. I have also had ACL surgery, and have used this release system for many years. Message me and I will help you get something set up for you to use.

@gavski your note about heel lift is something that a lot of people are overlooking. I am using a .200" lift under both feet. At one Record tournament last summer I had the opportunity to look at the boot setup of several Big Dawg skiers and one world record holder. They all had some amount of lift under their heels. Some were twice as much as mine. Again everyone has to figure out what helps themselves.

@theboardingschool love your concept and I really wanted to come down, next time! Collegiate Nationals would be fun too! Count me in! These days I am definitely more about hanging out than setting my personal best!

WOW! There is a lot going on in this discussion. "The Optimal Slalom Boot" is probably not going to be any one particular boot, but rather a set of characteristics that you can use to seek a boot that works best for you. I think that is what Adam was looking for when he started this discussion. Everybody's input about what they have tried and what changes they have made can help any of us with our search for that perfect boot performance. You also have to consider fit and comfort, as those are also important! I already mentioned that I have always sought great forward flexibility in the boots I use. That has allowed me the means to get my COM over my front foot. For the most part that has always meant modifying my skate boot shells to allow that. The stiff forward/back support was always too much for my style. I will work on posting photos of modifications on my website. After many years of using double hard shell boots, I recently switched to a half boot style rear. When I was younger and more flexible, I had no problem with this setup and most younger(40-45 & under) would not have a problem making this setup work. However in more recent years, as my flexibility has diminished, I found that the full rear hardshell boot was causing my leg/shin to influence the roll of the ski and completion of the turn. This lead to my setup change. @Wish I like what you have done with the rubber strap. I think that could help me with controlling excessive heel rise problems in some instances. Since you were not on that setup when I skied with you recently, I expect you are still testing your performance on that. As everybody can see in my photo, I have gone with a very low cut to my rear boot. This has further helped with the adverse roll caused from a hardshell. I had started that direction after using the Radar HRT, and went even more that way after discussing it with Adam. @ALPJr several people are using the double Vapor boots on a double release system, and several are on a single Vapor boot on a single release system with r style or rtp. Using a Vapor boot in the rear with a front release system might work for you if you NEVER tighten the upper rear laces or REMOVE them completely. The purpose of using the release system on the front would be so that you can tighten the front boot as much as you want, but the back needs to remain loose. The same is true for any other boot you use in the back also, especially rubber. An advantage to my release system is that you are not restricted to any one boot. Most skiers have only been able to try the Powershell or the Reflex hardshell boots. This shows many, but not all of the boots I have skied with on my release system. Not shown are the HO and Radar, which are shown on my website. The various rear half-boots that I have used. I use a very low cut liner, but have also used a full liner with the strap at top.

@Ed_Johnson Bruce is busy building skate boots for the upcoming Olympics, and has built some waterski boots. They are pricey! And they lend themselves better to ice skating for the reasons being discussed here. He and I have discussed ideas recently, maybe something will develop...

@andjules I have been anywhere from bare foot on the ski surface up to 1.25" above with boot, plate and liner. Each binding change requires adaptation by the skier but higher does make lateral movement more sensitive. Finding the right setup for yourself takes some testing. Height did not affect my skiing as much as the right flex around my ankle, never liked a stiff or tight cuff.

@adamhcaldwell I wear holes in the top of my liners with my big toe! I put an 1/8' foam pad in the toe area of my boots so that there is constant pressure on my big toe, and no wiggle room.

@Than_Bogan that has been done before, by ARC in its original boot and by Connelly, though neither were molded shells. The R style boot does that also... Easy enough to cut the toe out of your hardshell. I do agree that you need the proper downward toe pressure, so fitting your liner and shell to your individual foot is important. And, I have in fact recently drawn up plans for just such a shell. No prototype yet though...

@adamhcaldwell I have been modifying my hardshell boots for the exact reasons you have cited for twenty years. I never could run passes on out of the box skate boots I always had to modify the forward/back flex in the cuff and trim down the sides in the cuff area to lower lateral stiffness, and run the cuff buckle more loose. But I like the lower boot to be stiff and have a firm feel. I guess that is why I like the modified Roxa ice skate boot, aka the SuperShell, with my Intuition Liners.

@Deanoski yes, it may be possible to test the release that way, but all I accomplished was kicking myself in the shin! It takes quite a bit of effort to cause the release standing on the dock. Once I have the release adjusted to my liking I just make sure it is working properly. It does not change.

@MuskokaKy does this help,

@MuskokaKy I will try to get something posted that will explain why 'dock testing' of release is not an important aspect of my release system, but normal operational testing and maintenance of the system is... Explanation to follow...

@igkya I did not use snow fencing, I used 55 gal plastic drums. Snow fencing has little effect. The drums or plastic pipe helps some but hard to keep in place. The goal is to dissipate energy as the wave rolls over the drum or pipe, so the system cannot move back or float up with the wave. The drums or pipe must float low enough to allow the wave to roll over, but not too low. A system that has a big mass that is hard to move and allows the water energy to dissipate is what you are looking for. Old tires in a large array or strung on a long pole have been used with some success. @mbabiash if the bank/bottom is steep, the rock will not stay in place. The rock/rip rap should be stacked in front of the retaining wall. If you can, use an excavator to cut a ledge below normal water line on which to stack the rip rap. Otherwise rip rap will not work for you either.

@HighAltitude because in certain falls you can over stress one foot/ankle/achilles before the other allows the plate to release. This occurs particularly in an out the front fall where the front foot is still creating pressure against the ski, but the rear foot is trying to release from the heel. This can sprain or tear the Achilles' tendon.

@gregy @Creeker I constructed and installed the system at George's lake. It works only if securely held in place at the proper water level, same for the corrugated pipe. The overall key is to absorb the wave energy and dissipate it so there is no roll back.

@HighAltitude your description is close to the MOB design. Both feet on one plate is not the safest release. @eleeski the latest MOB system with Hardshell boot weighs essentially the same as a T-factor or Animal rubber boot.

@Horton good idea on how to keep things at your pace! I have an Academy Sports moderate price mountain bike that I have carried around to ski tournaments for years, saves wear on my knees from walking! I have now invested in various sizes of kids bikes and training wheels. Just hope I can keep up for a few years while he learns to enjoy good exercise!

@Horton you don't need a kid seat on back, you need a balance bike for the kid, then try to keep up!! He's 2.5 years old in this photo at Nationals. I don't know how many times we went around that lake!!!

@cruznski yep that is one of the fins I have.

The MOB mounting plate comes already drilled to use the Mikro-Just, just saying...