MM55k Rating

[Horton]

Darn thing went up to 2.5 @ 39 - crap!

[jdarwin]

John - you were a lot closer than I but I'm curious as to everyone's thoughts on this:

If a skier acheives a MM rating (basically an Open rating at 34mph) would you be in favor of:

a:  the skier MUST move into MM and stay in that division for the remainder of the ski year.

b:  the skier can ELECT to ski MM but must remain in the division for the remainder of the ski year.

c:  give the skier the choice to ski MM or his age division (as currently written).

[D Wolters]

My choice would be "A"

It sure would open up the field for the rest of us

[GMC]

I also love seeing Open "Pro" skiers posting scores in M1/M2.  I get it if they are skiing overall but otherwise??

Addition to my original post:  Responses below are all good and frankly my only objection is being seeded with guys that ski for a living.  If you have a day job and can get your open rating, that's sick skiing, plain and simple. 

I can worry about M3 vs MM in 11 months...  And even then I am not worried because I won't be getting a sniff of 39 at 55k!

[Kelvin]

For National tournament qualification purposes, skiers at this level should not be included on more than 1 list (Open, MM, M3/4/5).  By doing so, they are taking spots away from other skiers.

The move up to MM should be 2 years.

[disland]

Same for Jump :-)

[ForrestGump]

Kelvin's got it. I completely agree with that.

[lkb]

Seems to me there should be something like subcategories within M3, M4, etc. The subcategory would be based on either how long you have been skiing tournaments or how many tournaments you have skiied.

[MrJones]

I disagree with having a M55K division period. M3 and M4 have traditionally been the most anticipated, exciting, and watched events at Nationals. I believe M55K diloutes those divisions and makes all three less than that what they could be. (or were) 

[eleeski]

I am a MM qualified trick skier. What happens to my overall status if I trick MM? I might not qualify for Nationals in slalom without the help of my overall status (and jump - well a 49 foot effort won't get me to Regionals without an overall exemption). I probably will not qualify with the MM NOPS used to calculate my overall.

I'm happy to ski MM trick at Regionals and Nationals as long as I can qualify during the year in overall in M5. I still want to slalom (and eventually I'll get a ski that works).

Radical idea: average the NOPS of MM and what would have been assigned in the age division and use that for qualification and placement. Make MM (or Open) mandatory.

Eric

[eleeski]

Scot, MM is the only way to get on the world rankings once M5 rolls around as M5 is Class E not L. I am very happy MM exists. Yes it will dilute M5 but hopefully MM tricks will have more than 2 skiers in it next year.

It has really upped the interest by some of the old trickers at least. I know several of us are hoping to ski MM next year. I know I will (my overall qualification should be safe by overall placement - I'm worried down the road).

Eric

[Horton]

Looks like I am not going to be popular on this subject:
For local competition I think MM55k, Open and any local rule to get elite skiers in their own group is awesome. Here in Bako we take anyone who runs 35 in their own group.  For me this keeps the starting dock more fun for the skiers in their age group.  Personally I do not go to a local tournament looking to outscore skier with a Masters Rating.

For National competition I think it is silly to say that if you score too high you belong in another group.  What is the value of a National or Regional Championship if you can choose who you ski against. In the old days when Open skiers had to ski Open, you had some skiers sandbag to stay in their age groups. 

I am a M3 skier who is on the verge of M55k. If everyone who is qualified goes to (or is forced to) MM55K suddenly I am a National Champ Contender. That I silly. As much as I hate the fact that I do not have a National Gold, I am not that level of skier. Let’s say I start nailing 38 (it is about time) what is to keep me from dropping the handle anytime I am within a ½ ball of the rating so I do not bump. 

To me ability groups are for local competition but at the high end it is just a way to make more champions and with less meaning.

[eleeski]

Horton, you are too young. It is tough to see the value of your performances diluted just because you aged up. My scores are not dropping too much in tricks but as a M5 I ski Class E.

Plus my ego is big enough that I believe I can still hang with the big dogs. MM is the division that should be the prestige division.

Eric

[9400]

Is this question just for regionals or nationals? WHEN i get there I would like the option, because I 

don't want to be the only MM skier at a tournament. I would like to be able to ski mens 4 if that is

where 4 or more guys might be capable of running 38 versus being the only skier in MM. However

I do see Kelvin's point and would hate to take someone's spot, but it wouldn't bug me if someone

bumped my spot...it would just mean I didn't score enough that year.

[Old MS Accout]

Everyone join the INT league.

[jdarwin]

I figured this would generate some good conversation.  I tend to agree w/ Jones - why have it?  Why was it created in the first place?  If you can move at will back and forth between MM and your age division based on who/what the circumstances are, why have it?  From a local or special event perspective, it makes sense.  But from a Regional or National perspective, I don't believe it serves any purpose other than to dilute the age divisions.

[jdarwin]

Should have created option D:  Eliminate MM Divisions.

[skidawg]

Option E:  Make MM division a 36mph division (for those of us who would like to still ski 38 but can't hang with the likes of rossie, cp or jb at nats)

[scoke]

2008: two "pro" skiers skied in M2 for some reason then skied OM the rest of the year. Bumped several people out of Nationals.

 2010: One of the same "pro" skiers did it again. It's a shame and a slap in the face to the "real world" skiers.

 

[eleeski]

Skoke, most of my tournaments will be in M5. Only Regionals and Nationals will be MM. I will need to do this for overall reasons. It will skew qualifications and NOPS. The real issue with the MM division is handling of overall.

Skidawg, 36 should be an option for MM. An appropriate handicap for the higher speed (not 6 buoys) needs to be in place. OK maybe for MM 6 buoys is appropriate. But you are absolutely right, 36 should be an option so MM can get on the world standings.

Jdarwin, MM is the coolest thing to happen in years. Look at the excitement over Big Dogs. The recent extension to three events is great also. I'm very excited to have qualified in tricks. But I suppose Option D is relevant - I just hope no one votes for it.

Address the overall issues and make it mandatory. I might never win but at least I'm in the best game.

Eric

[MrJones]

Eric,

I see your point and agree. You feel that although you are getting older you can still improve at the event of tricks as is set forth. You know what the standard is (The trick world record) and want to see how good you can get in relation to it. (Tell me if I am seeing this incorrectly)

 I agree with Skidawg about a division for men over 35 who want to continue and ski at 36. It should have been M58K. A few of us would have skied it. M3 and M4 would be the premier 34 divisions. I guess this would not work for the guys who overall in Masters divisions. Well, yeah it would. Just slalom at 36!

 Let the debate continue.

[Horton]

Jones - Never agree with Eric!

[RichardDoane]

I can't wait to see the ski that Eric makes to slalom his way to M55K !

[Bruce_Butterfield]

Horton, you need another option:

 

Entry into MM55k mandatory based on placement at Regionals and Nationals.  The top 3 in M3 and M4 at each Regional championship and the top 5 in M3 and M4 at Nationals must ski MM55k for the following ski year.

 

Mandatory entry based on buoy count has a host of issues, including the guy who runs the qualifying buoy count by the skin of his teeth and being forced into MM, and the guys who can easily make the buoy count but don’t ski tournaments or stand up ½ buoy short.

 

This would make MM55k truly an elite division and open up the age divisions for the “second tier†group to get some medals.  Then you would really see the crowds line up for MM55k.

 

This could also be done for Open in a similar fashion.

 

Almost every other amateur sport has divisions based on ability, not just age and sex.  When you get to a certain level, you get bumped up to the next level.

[9400]

That Bruce is a smart fellow....I kinda like that idea....But there would never be another

Chuck Forrest that would win 92 mens 3 nationals in a row (unless it's in MM)