Help for a greenhorn

[bxroads]

At the age of 38, I just seriously started slalom skiing at the end of last year. Jody Seal got me into it about three years ago (thanks man!) but I was fat and out of shape and developed tendinitis in my forearms/elbow/shoulders so bad I could hardly even dress myself. The first two years I skied less than 8 sets total which included learning how to get up on a ski so you can't really even count them. I had to lay off until the end of the 2010 season. By then I had got into better shape and my tendinitis was all but gone thanks to stretching, push ups, and a gyro ball so at the end of the season I started skiing again, probably skied a total of 10 - 15 sets last year. I held up well this time and was pumped for the 2011 season. I've still not skied enough (not convenient) this year but I'm trying, with a total of about 15 sets (average 8 passes per set) so far this year. Bottom line is that I've not skied much but feel healthy and ready.

 

All that said, I feel SO discouraged, as if I'm never going to make the course. I'm 5'8", 195 lbs and skiing a 67" Theory with Strada boots at 30 mph. I know there are many, many things I need to work on but what I am frustrated with most is getting the tip of the ski down. I feel like no matter how much weight I get on the front foot the tip is to high, from the glide out all the way through the course (shadowing balls). Any suggestions? I'll try to post a video shortly. I've never uploaded a digital video so I hope I can figure it out.

 

Thanks in advance.

[9400]

Sounds to me like you are separated (handle and arms away from the body) and possibly squatting. Read Bruce Butterfield's article on handle control, Trents article on anchor point and Chris Rossi's articles on the power triangle. The pain in your joints is probably either slack hits or just plain working to hard due to being separated or both.

[Old MS Accout]

Dont chase balls. If you get a chance, free ski and practice making turns. Bring that into the course and see how you progress. Chasing balls can develope bad habits.

[jwr]

It could by body position or style, video will help tell that. It could also be ski setup. May be helpful to post binder and fin settings. I'm not familiar with that ski, but i'm sure there are people on here that have a good feel for that ski.

[bxroads]

9400, you nailed me without even watching the video. Thanks for the articles.

 

MS, you aren't the only one to tell me to get out of the course. Guess I'm just stubborn. I have good intentions but always end up on the course.

 

jwr, its the factory fin setting with the wing removed. The Stradas are mounted with the individual plates set to the center.

 

[bxroads]

I just uploaded to youtube but it has been saying "This video is currently being processed" for about 10 minutes now. I've never uploaded to youtube so I don't know if this is normal.

 

[ScarletArrow]

Don't feel bad about slowing down to 28mph.

[bxroads]

28 mph is a lot of work at my weight.

[bxroads]

Jody is going to get me for looking across course, and bending my arms, and not getting my hips up, or as he likes to say, PUSH the handle down and push the hips up. Quit pulling! It so simple, I dont know why I cant get it. At the start of the year I kept straightening my front leg. At least thats improved.

 

[Roger]

Your arms are bent during the pull... I would advise getting out of the course also and (with someone watching or videoing) hang out to each side of the boat and establish a proper pulling position with arms nearly straight and body aligned over the ski. Then I would work starting from wide and maintaining the position though the wakes just one time. Reset and go the other way until you can cross the wakes in that proper position. Then you can venture back into the course and put it all together. BTW, the bent arms during the pull phase are what the cause of your tendinitis is (IMO).

[jwr]

I think I will just ask 9400 what to do. He nailed it. You are really close to running the course, your just dragging your butt. Hips up, shoulders back. Like everyone else said practice outside the course. Practice on land even.

[Horton]

Funny.... you guys don't seem Elitist and unfriendly. Odd.

[Marco]

Everyone's been there and can relate. Years ago, after free skiing for 10 years and not even knowing the course existed, I went to ski with Rathbun in Acapulco. At the table he introduced me as a beginner. I almost protested but decided to keep my mouth shut. Good thing. Others at the table were Will and Elaine Bush, Brett Yager, Jason Parades, Big Al... I had no idea.

 

BX-Everything thats been said above is spot on. Continue to try to decrease the separation between your hands and hips. I was told for years to "get your hands down", or "get your hips up". Easier said than done. For me, what helped is thinking about arching the small of my back and exaggerated ankle flex to help close the gap between hips and hands. Everyone grasps concepts in a different way, so keep looking for the phrase that makes sense to you. Good luck and have fun!

[RichardDoane]

bx - how about trying a larger ski, so you can slow the boat down and run the course. Radar makes a P6 that some larger sized guys use, it makes one heck of a wide ride. It's better to run a full pass at 28, than only get a couple buoys at 30

[buoyboy]

Check out Robert J Markings training videos on youtube

[Laz]

Good video. I can certainly relate...I've been skiing for 30 years, but only discovered the course 3 years ago.

 

I am only slightly less beginner than you, but definitely a beginner.

 

My suggestions (ie, things that worked for me):

 

First, as RichardDoane said, slow the boat down. When I get my friends started in the course, we go at 26 or 28mph.

 

Second: Spend some time pulling on a rope on dry land. Attach it about 2.5 feet off the ground, grab the handle and practice a lean. You should have straight arms with elbows on your hips, shoulders somewhat towards the boat (tree, light pole, etc) and your weight even on both feet. Get to know this position well so you can feel when it happens behind the boat.

 

Third: practice this position pulling away from the wake first. Then, when you feel a difference, try cutting across the wake in this position.

 

Finally, post lots of video and you will get lots of advice.

[boarditup]

Horton wrote up a article on the "Basic Relaxed Skiing Position." Find it, read it, and practice it. You are working really had and you will make it with Horton's article. The rest of the advice is also dead on. You need to relax and let your ski and leverage work for you. Much easier on the back and arms!

[454SS]

This may help, it is a drill professional football players use to strengthen there reaction times, and may translate well into helping your reaction times in the course. Have a friend stand with their arms outstretched and holding a tennis ball in each hand. To start stand back 10 yards away then have your friend randomly drop one of the balls, your goal is catch the ball before it hits the ground, if that two hard try and catch the ball before it bounces a second time. To make even harder simply stand further away. Proper form and technique will help you get through the course but simply learning to react faster can go a long way in getting you through the course.

[bxroads]

Richarddoane, trying a larger ski is a good idea. I've actually got a 69" Synchro that would float me at 10 mph I think. That thing is huge. I haven't skied on it in a while. I'll bust it out this weekend and give it a shot. Thanks!

[454SS]

Laz,

 

I like your suggestion of pulling on a rope this can help build muscle memory in a pulling position, remember it can take hundreds of repetitions just to develop muscle memory of a certain movement or position. Once you have muscle memory of the movements you need improving becomes about reaction time.

[bxroads]

Laz, sounds good. I'll give it a shot.

[bxroads]

In case someone else would like to see it, here's Horton's article http://www.ballofspray.com/component/content/article/35-ballofspray-water-ski-news/54-basic-relaxed-position

[Horton]

I have only hatched a few good ideas over the years and that is one of them. BRP is still 90% of all my coaching.

 

@bxroads I am not going to BS you and claim it is easy or natural but you simply need to stand up. All good things stem from being stacked in the middle of your ski.

[Horton]

oooo yea 30 is too fast. (I just hate to agree with Zap!)

67 Theory should be fine. (Zap! is wrong about that)

[Horton]

This is also really good info on this topic http://www.ballofspray.com/trent-f/918-anchor-point

[Ntq206]

Well, I guess now is a really good time to join in this discussion group.

 

I'm almost in the exact same situation as bxroads - I'm 39 this year (turning 40 in the fall) and just started slalom skiing relatively 'seriously' last year. Technically I started the year before that, but only had 3 runs in plus some learning to get up on a single ski.

I've been lurking here for quite a while - I am reading this thread with great interest, because I'm doing many of the same old beginner mistakes.

 

That being said, very late in the season last year, I had one of those "breakthroughs" for myself in getting in better position crossing the wakes (esp. offside).

I was badly hunched over (going to the john style!)

So, I discovered that if I stare down the pylon in the boat - somehow it really helped my own position (and confidence!) in the wake crossing.

 

Sorry, I'm just a newb too, so I can't offer any advice other than moral support for a fellow slalom-learner!

I'm interested in hearing about your progress this year.

 

Keep at it!!!!

[Horton]

@Ntq206 Welcome aboard.

[bxroads]

Thanks for all the info! I'm going to slow it down and try to get more video this weekend, keeping everything else in mind too.

[bxroads]

I just watched Robert Marking's youtube training videos. Good stuff! Going outside to try it now.

[PBD]

1 Slow the boat down

2 It looks like when you release your outside hand from the handle on the turns you are forcing it. This should movement should come naturally as part of the slowing of the ski through the turns. To me it looks as if you would be better off with a 2 handed turn at this point. Spending time freeskiing will help you develop this timing.

[Jody_Seal]

Clint did nothing Cory told ya sink in last week? first learn to cross the wakes!!! the turn will come later, you are so impatent. Good stuff tho. Scott is coming to town and we will be up on DeerPoint on the back 40 (twilightZone) Bring it!!

[bxroads]

It did sink in (all except that "get out of the course" part). Remember the biggest problem I had that day was straight, stiff, front leg. He got me past that. You know me, I just like to get different perspectives and maybe one MIGHT click for me. Lots of good stuff posted. I like visuals and related well to Robert's youtube videos. Can't wait to ski again!

 

Is Scott coming this weekend? Saturday we are having a bunch of teenagers over at our lake (church youth group) so I'm out for Saturday, but maybe I can manage Sunday? I love skiing with you guys, and at Cory's too. Fun stuff!

[bxroads]

.....and yes, you are correct, patience is not one of my virtues.

[RichardDoane]

being patient while under pressure is the hardest part

[bxroads]

Jody, fyi, the video is from Chad's lake. Neat place.

[HO 410]

Buoys are pretty unrelenting, and it's difficult when your opener is your hardest pass.

 

Variety is the spice of skiing. Ride a trick, cut around on jumpers, fiddle around on a skerfer, ride a tube with the kids. Doing something other than slalom... can actually help slalom. Having something other than slalom will keep you positive about going to the lake when you're burnt out on the buoys. It's really hard to ski the course when you, I mean I, have a 'here we go again' attitude.

 

26 and 28 mph feels like too much work largely because you're holding the majority of the stress on you muscles instead of with your skeleton. Work on that pullout drill (just cut out one direction and stay there the length of the lake) and focus on the Basic Relaxed Position. You'll be better able to ski the slower speeds.

 

Stay positive, when the rope is long, improvements tend to come in bunches.

[dleenhouts]

One thing that works for me is hopping on a swing set - there are some parallels to the course.

[bxroads]

Wow! Skied at 26 this afternoon. My first thought was "darn this is slow", my next thought was "If 26 feels so much slower than 30 I'll never make 34". Angie (my wife) was pulling me and no one else was in the boat so there's no vidoe. It took me at least six passes to get use to the slower speed then it started coming around. All I did was shadow balls but I got three pretty easy without trying. Whats odd is that the last time I skied at 28 it wore me out physically. This time at 26 was totally opposite. It was late afternoon and I only had time for one set. I skied 19 passes and felt fine, very little fatigue and not winded at all when I got back in the boat. I swear I could do it again now. Hope to get video tomorrow. Man this is fun!

[RichardDoane]

I think "shadowing" balls is something to avoid if possible, it builds a bad habit of skiing narrow. Put a little more effort into your pull through the second wake and you'll find yourself wide enough to run the full course. Chris Sullivan told me one time to put my effort into what he called the "work zone"; the area from coming off the buoy line until the second wake.

[MrBrown]

Schnitz always has great ways of explaining techniques and principles. Schnitz said instead of thinking about "locking the elbows to the vest" think about "locking the vest to the elbows" or "bringing the vest to the elbows". This is a great point. This "bring the vest to the elbows" can only be accomplished by standing tall, with your hips forward, shoulders back, as you bring your "vest to your elbows" (elbows to the vest), with your arms straight.

 

I have seen some skiers have a problem with the "elbows to the vest" technique when trying it for the first time. Many times, they will bend their arms and pull in on the handle in an attempt to "lock their elbows to the vest". This is incorrect! Having the arms absolutely straight at all times is CRITICAL. Even a slight bend can cause a skier to start to "lead with the shoulders" which will flatten the ski out cross course, causing a skier to be fast and narrow into the next buoy, causing a poor edge change and poor turn.

 

The "handle in the pocket/power triangle" is a RESULT of having a "low anchor point" as T$ stated. A "low anchor point" is a RESULT of how well a skier has his "elbows locked to the vest" with his arms totally straight, when he hooks up for the pulling phase out of the turn.

 

If the skier does not have his "elbows locked the vest" and does not have a "low anchor point", then the skier will experience...........

- slight separation, causing him to be leading with his shoulders slightly (this is a "high anchor point" as T$ mentioned)

- causing poor body position out of the buoy

- poor acceleration,

- loss of cross course speed

- loss of cross course angle

 

One other point that needs to be mentioned along with "locking the elbows to the vest", is how to "engage your core" before you pick up the pull of the boat. Many top skiers engage their cores automatically and consciously while other skiers have no clue. Water skiing is a "core intensive sport", and a skier needs to know how to "engage his core" and how to strengthen his core to ski better and stronger, and to prevent career threatening injuries.

 

In the Dry Land Training Video (part 1), you will hear it mentioned about engaging the core muscles as the skier is "locking the elbows to the vest". You engage the core through a slight exhale of the breathe, as you flex your abs. You flex your abs just as though someone is about to punch you in the stomach. With your abs flexed, you still should be able to talk lightly. If you can't talk, this means that you only have pressure in the abdomen and don't really have the core engaged.

 

Throughout the course, you should only have light breathing as you are engaging the core. Any deep breaths in and out will disengage the core. The very most important time to really flex the abs and engage the core (like you’re going to get punched in the stomach) is right before you pick up the pull of the boat out of the turn. Your core muscles a have to be engaged before the secondary muscle groups (arms and legs) can be engaged. The faster you can engage your core muscles, the faster you can engage your secondary muscle groups. The stronger your core muscles, the stronger your secondary muscle groups will be, and the stronger you will be in the course.

 

When the core is engaged and the secondary muscle groups are engaged, when you pick up the pull of the boat it is as though you are made out of steel and you are locked into a strong pulling position. There is no lost energy by the body bending and giving into the pull of the boat in any way. All this energy then catapults you cross course almost effortlessly while you are maintaining a great skiing position.

 

You could also wear a weight lifting belt as a reminder to stand tall and to engage your core. This will also help to give you some support until your core is stronger. Just be ready for "sore abs" when first attempting this technique!