Yet Another Reason to Outlaw PWC's

[Ed_Obermeier]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44917836/ns/us_news-life/

[jayski]

it's the knucklehead's that seem to gravitate to them...

[Wish]

This was brought up by USA Water Ski a while back I believe. The problem with outlawing PWC is that they are considered inboards. I believe that is defined by the US coast guard or some governing body. You outlaw them and you outlaw us. This is one of those things where it's the operator and not the machine. It's like outlawing motorcycles. There's plenty car drivers that feel these pesky machines operated by a bunch of knuckledragers should be outlawed.

 

Freedom does come with a price and we in this country have lots of rights to be stupid. Lots of rights.

 

That's not to say I'd like to see them all sink to the bottom of their respective bodies of water. I'm ok with motorcycles cause they don't make waves. But I'm sure a great deal of fishermen would like to see ours sink as well. Especially those pesky dawn patrol skiers.

 

Private ski lake owner can ignore all of the above.

[Ed_Obermeier]

I've stated this before and I'll state it again. As much as I'm not for more government regulation, I think a formal Boat Drivers Liscense law is long overdue. Minimum age requirement (16?), formal classes/training/certification of some sort required so everyone has at least been introduced to the Rules of the Water and some sort of safety training. Include a grandfather clause to anyone who can prove at least 10 years of boat ownership perhaps? That clause won't filter out all of the idiots but it would be a huge step in the right direction IMO.

 

Ed

[Wish]

Many states have incorporated such laws. And I agree with them. But, if the training doesnt significantly decrease the issue than problems can arises if they start using blanket rules/regulation even at the state level. There can been plenty state rules on PCWs that would driectly affect us outside of training like maintaining a new and farther distance from shore line (PCW riders tend to get in tighter spots) which may force ski courses to the center of big lakes. As pointed out, training may be the best and perhaps the only option as regulation to the machine(s) or bodies of water tend to be much to broud and can have unforeseen consiquences. If they do have to happen, better at the local levels then state or federal. Just look at Europe. So many environmental rules that there's hardly any place to ski.

 

 

[jipster43]

Here's an example of Montana's best and brightest enjoying a moonlight cruise.

 

http://billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/montana/article_4d36251e-93ed-11de-90d4-001cc4c03286.html

[lpskier]

In New York, you can take a several hour class, pass a test and get a license to operate a boat. At age 10. Of the many boating accidents I am familiar with, I can think of two that involved kids under 20, but many that involved people over 40. I think that by and large, younger boaters are more attentive. I got my license when I was 10, as did my children.

 

Two words of advice gleaned from 45 years of boating experience: Give plenty of room to people driving Bayliners and to people driving with boat fenders dangling from their gunwales.

[gregy]

They've banned PWC on weekends on some lakes here in central Texas. I'm pretty sure it was the result of some deaths. There was one case were a PWC was jumping the wake of a boat that had a skier. PWC hit the skier.

[Bulldog]

How is a PWC considered a inboard? They are a jet drive. Boating laws and licensing are only as good as the people that obey them.

[Laz]

I hate PWC. They go way way way too fast. The power to weight ratio is insane. Two teenagers with a combined IQ of 50 hit me head on while I was sailing a small catamaran. No injuries, but I had to jump Water World style at the last minute.

[GAJ0004]

Pennsylvania has a safety course requirement, and an age restriction. It was much worse before the requirements were put in place. Most people use them a couple of seasons, and get rid of them or they break down. They are still a problem, not not near as bad as they used to be. The main problems is today they have 2-3 times as much power as they did when they first became popular. They are faster than regular boats, but hard to control since they rely on thrust to steer. Inexperiened boaters think they are easier to drive than regular boats. They are a waste of money, since you cannot do much with them.

 

[Wish]

PWC is considered an inboard. Their restriction can become our restrictions. I know I'd be upset if I could not ski on weekends anymore.

 

http://www.boatus.com/onlinecourse/documents/pwc.html

 

The PWC industry also has to self regulate. As their vessels become more restricted in terms of use by governing bodies (as mentioned above) it affect sales.

 

Also look at the snowmobile industry. Power to weight ratio there is out off control. As I grew up in MN the number of deaths each yr increased with the horse power. That is also becoming the case with four wheelers. Two more industries that should self regulate though education and local and national club affiliations. And that is happening and it does help.

 

There will always be idiots. On all kinds of machines. But when the idiots are lumped in with the responseable people because of association, municipalities and states start regulating the machines. Laws are interpreted by pilotitions that couldnt tell you which inboards should and shouldn't be restricted. Easier to just make it for all inboards. Just saying to watch where and how we point our fingers and who we ask to fix the problem.

[unksskis]

I guess I don't see where that story really relates to why jet skis should be banned. You can go and find one about people in in-boards, or v drives, or a fishing boat. I don't like pwc's just like the rest of you, but I think it's in poor taste to use a family's loss to ignite a one sided discussion.

[Wish]

One sided?? I'd say more of a misguided populous view. If anything, the death of these women should ignite discussion. But only if the discussion leads to some reasonable and rational solutions to the problem which is statistically and significantly higher than accidents involving in-boards, v-drives or fishing boats. If the discussion among many takes the occasional side rode onto the path of sarcasm, humor, or just plane idiocy its to be expected. Sometimes you have to state the ridiculous to move a discussion forward. It got us to discus it. Ignoring it wont make it go away. Hearing the other side is always welcome.

[unksskis]

My point is, the article has no details as far as what happened. I doubt anyone on here, including myself, knows any detail of what happened. Yet there are posts in regards to their intelligence, IQ, etc. You're right, it is good to have the discussion, I just find it bad taste that the article be used, when it's the least detailed report I think I've ever seen.

[Wish]

I don't think anyone has accused the individuals in the report of being anything. Sure a few statements were made regarding a general feeling that most individuals that use and operate these vessels seem to be well...... the comments stand for themselves. Non directed at the women in the article. Your right, for all we know all three could have been licensed responsible individuals. They could also have been drunk and inexperienced PWC operators. Either end of that speculation spectrum does not take away from the fact that it was tragic. Making general comments on a population (PWC riders) as a whole does not take that away either. Smokers are in general not seen an a good light by the vast population of non smokers. This does not take away from the fact that each and every death related to smoking is anything less then tragic even when the individuals death is not detailed. Smoking is a problem where resolve is pushed on a daily basis through the death of other smokers. Every day on TV this is seen and heard. No details are give. Just statistics. I will go one further and say that if one person called me stupid for getting skin cancer ( 2 sugeries and a yr of cemo) and it started a discussion with someone that ultimately lead to one of the two to use sunblock on a daily basis than bring it. Call me stupid, dumb, a knuckldragger. Don't care if you know the details or not.

[ForrestGump]

We have a private lake because of idiot pwc riders. One lost control and ran it between 2 anchored boats and into the side of another. The owners of the one that was hit and totaled immediately said " We have 100 acres. Let's build a lake." So we did. 2010 USCG statistics show that 59% of pwc accidents are from hitting a boat, whereas only 28% of pleasureboat accidents are from hitting another boat. Also, in 2010 there were no deaths from anyone under the age of 20. 34% were 20-29 and 34% were 40-49. What it boils down to is that you can't fix stupid.

[HO 410]

Lake Arcadia in Oklahoma has a designated PWC zone. That certainly helps.

 

I know it could hurt vacation rentals, but some kind of compulsory education for all ages would probably help. It seems that a lot of these tragedies are hard earned, a little but of knowledge could go a long way to keep people a little further from the ragged edge.

 

Giving these machines a slower top end wouldn't hurt either.

[LeonL]

I'll comment here as I have many times to my friends in the past. "You can take a person of average intelligence, put them on a PWC and within 5 minutes they've apparently lost 50% of that intelligence."

[Than_Bogan]

PWCs are in fact banned on my home lake.

 

And it's a bit of a sad, though thankfully NOT tragic, story:

 

At some point way back, people got really pissed and pushed the state park (which owns the lake) to ban them. The state complied.

 

Water skiers, understanding that banning of one group opens the door to banning of other groups, were the only folks who came to their defenses. I didn't yet live on this lake, but I have to imagine the basic thesis was "We firmly believe that this lake should support as much recreation as it can."

 

And water skiers "won." PWCs were allowed back on Lake Cochituate, with a buoyed-off area where they could go. The idea was: If you didn't want to deal with them, you just stayed out of that area.

 

But despite the extreme effort to help them out, PWC riders were totally unable to comply with the new designated zone, and not too long afterward they were re-banned.

 

This time, nobody came to support them. That was probably almost 20 years ago now.

[ral]

Do you need another reason to ban PWC's? Their mere existence is more than enough reason!

[jipster43]

I don't know if any of you clicked on my link, but it was an article about Montana's state representative, Denny Rehberg (running for senate this go-round), and a former state senator who managed to do this after an evening of drinking. Everyone was hospitalized. A staff member was in a coma for a week.

[ForrestGump]

Like I said..........you can't fix stupid.

[Wish]

I believe, and I could be wrong here, that drinking and boating hold the same punishments by law. Please tell us he was not elected and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

[jipster43]

The state senator was driving and is no longer holding office. He got probation and paid a fine of some sort. Denny Rehberg is in what should prove to be a dog race for U.S. Senate against John Tester. I have to bite my tongue beyond that 'cause I hate mixing politics with SKIING!

[wlrottge]

Here's a little something for a laugh.

 

http://www.nipmucpoint.com/nipmuc/ultimate_pwc_repellent.htm

 

Wish I could find this image in a larger version... used to have it saved somewhere. The text reads, "I love PWC's, at 9'oclock with a tone" lol

 

There was a case in Ft. Walton (i think) a couple of years ago where a PWC ran into a Hobie 16 and the water patrol cited the Hobie for not giving way.... I've spent my entire life on the water and that is about the dubest thing I've seen law enforcement do. Sadly since I race high end catamarans, these are the kind of morons that we get to deal with regularly....

[Ed_Obermeier]

Saw that years ago. I ordered and still have the tee shirt!

 

How did the cat get the ticket? Rules of right-of-way state that the less manuverable vessel has right-of-way. Unbelievable...

[Bulldog]

There should be an open season on dealing with PWC idiots!!! I had one follow us jumping our wake while towing kids and I just about stopped and killed him but he took off for a bigger wake from a v drive.