Hate to say it but @SkiBigDawg World Tour cld B really bad fr Pro Skiing. Sport isn't big enough....

[Horton]

I believe that you heard it... now that SM backed you up. I am pleased to hear that at least one factory is trying to make the skiers promote themselves.

[jayski]

I agree with jdarwin...BD is just taking a piece of the pie away, suck it up and get after that money, the pro's will not gain unless they have something to offer the masses, and right now the BD is more appealing, I have more respect to the BD skiers than the pros...Marcus is setting a bad example by publically complaining about it...his stock just went down in my books, in business you can't sit around and whine when your competitor is gaining ground, you have to get out, step it up and get after it.

 

 

[TylerR]

I've been skiing since i was 4 years old, and there was a time that I really looked up to the pro skiers and what they accomplished on the course. Just because someone who skies BD gets a piece of 4 @ 41 at the same site Nate gets 3 @ 41 doesn't in my mind change what Nate and the others are accomplishing. When I first came back to this horrible addiction(j/k), for the last 2 years I ran at 34mph and got my confidence back up. Now this season for the first time in 6 or 7 years I'm heading back into the course at 36. The difference is pretty obvious to anyone who ski's and that is the only real audience our sport has at the moment. I agree with John that we need to market and push our sport better, but it is hard to make an argument that BD is hurting the Pro's when the only people who are really watching at the moment are people who all can easily understand the difference. If the Pro's are really worried about the BD's damaging their brand and that brand's ability to make money, then they need to go after the market that the BD skiers are reaching and not complain about what they feel they might be loosing. In my business if I feel that a competitor is taking market share I go after that market share just like @jayski said.

[jimbrake]

Jayski - how are the BDs more appealing to you than the pros and why do you respect them more?

[Horton]

@Brent Home page?

[Horton]

and that is a bad thing?

[Taelan28]

@Brent I have no problem with him tweeting. I thought about what I said and when I said he should be doing his job I was attacking him for having an opinion which I shouldnt have done. Even the busiest person in the world has time to tweet. What I meant by saying he should do is job is that his opinion on Big Dawgs is not in line with promoting the sport--even so its 30 seconds of him making an opinion vs all the time he puts into the sport so I was wrong to criticize for that.

 

I see OB, Jayski and TylerR agree with my main point.

[PT Mike]

Between this thread & the other started by @lpskier (does the sport really need the pros) I'm thoroughly delighted by the different points of view as I am by the lack of outright bashing on each other you see on other Waterski/ Boat forums. It's nice to see people agree to disagree and nothing more. Gee, I think I'm feeling a little warm & fuzzy inside. Thanks guys!

[DW]

I will take a different tact on this one. The skiers who think this is dividing the pie might have it backwards, think of it as a sponsor (Correct Craft) finding a niche to offer a spectator or competitive paying event that does not directly compete with another similar format vs. simply not participating. If they did not move the event away from the pro level skier, they might not have ever bothered to be a sponsor at all. Would that not be a less desireable option? I don't quite see the downside as others do, I see it as another potential event for semi-pro's to endulge in or if in your area, a spectator event to go see. They have always billed it as something different from the absolute best skiers on the water. The money pie is from two independent sources, so should not be a conflict. The combo platter gives the spectator a better experience.

[lpskier]

@PT Mike Shameless name dropper.

[PT Mike]

@lpskier Hey John, I think I earned a badge for dropping a name last week!

[Horton]

@PT Mike would you like a brownie button?

[PT Mike]

@Horton brownie button? Ouch! I gotta stop posting at night after drinking.

[KB]

Great Post TW. Glad to see you still love it.

 

I get the point on BD vs Pro scores. My club is all guys that have been skiing 34 forever. I was the only 36 guy. When I slowed down I went up a pass and they all said "when did you get so good" "Guys, I was skiing 36!". So even some skiers (probably not those on this forum) forget how much harder 36 is. The general public will have no idea.

 

That brings up the whole separate debate on BD speed. Whether its 34, 35, or 36 I will still appreciate a chance to compete with the best +35 guys in a "Masters" type division.

 

KB

[jayski]

jimbrake - more appealing because they represent reality we all face, training hard for what they love to do, they juggle kids, jobs, marriage to make it all happen.

 

Pro's are not reality, they haven't grown up yet, when the realization of marrige, family and the real world come crashing in on them the majority are screwed. Now there are a very few that are on a good path with their life and juggling real jobs, life and family but they are defintly a great minority, probably count them on one hand...

 

Marcus made a mistake in what he tweeted, (from a business perspective) it was wrong in the fact that it creates a seperation and chosing sides on a issue, that doesn't build growth for your own brand. The pros need to realize that they are the product and who their market is...Marcus making a statement against waterskiing's biggest market was a bad choice...

[boarditup]

While I disagree with Marcus on his (assumed) point, I really like the discussion. Controversy that does not destroy anything or demean anyone is good. I will likely disagree with everyone on this board over something or another, but I am still good friends with a lot of them. So - bring it on. It is worth discussing.

 

From a demographic perspective, it is really interesting to hear the 18-30 age group talk and discuss these matters. They do have a very different life perspective than I do a couple of decades and three kids more experienced. Sometimes you just smile internally knowing what you had to learn by experience. My dad is a genius.

[ForrestGump]

You hit the nail on the head, Karl! It took 40 years but my dad's now a genius too. I told him that one day and he told me "You're just the dumba$$ that didn't know it." LOL

[jimbrake]

Jayski - I understand your point regarding the BDs (and us lesser mortals) having to balance training, family, jobs, etc. One of the reasons I was attracted to this sport back in the '70s was that I was really impressed by the "older guys" that skied so well, were still so fit, and obviously showing their commitment to their sport way longer than most people do in other "traditional, mainstream" sports. But, for me, I'm still most impressed by the younger elite pros. I think we are talking respect vs. appeal. I totally respect the BDs, but I find the pros more appealing as athletes.

 

You say the "pros are not reality". I disagree. There are all kinds of realities. Their reality is that they are young, supremely talented and making it work somehow. Granted, they may be making it work by being partially or wholly supported by others still and at some point will have to face the reality of going it on their own and make sacrifices to their skiing, but that's the case in ANY sport that is not a big revenue generator. If you had a son or daughter that was skiing at an elite level would you not "help them out" for a little while at least to pursue the sport at its highest level? I would, but there would be a clear understanding of how long it would last and a transition plan of sorts.

 

Probably getting too far off on that tangent. I don't want to sound anti-BD - I'm not. I do want to watch the BDs, but I'd much rather see our sport focused on our young elite pros. The BDs are a cool, intra-sport offshoot that should continue for the benefit of those of us involved in the sport. The elite pros should be what we show to the world as our best, most marketable athletes.

[Sethski]

My 2 cents...I don't think Marcus meant this with any disdain for the Big Dawg format and I too understand that pros want to get paid. I don't know if I can speak for the rest of the Big Dawg skiers out there when I say this, but I don't think any of us are trying to steal that glory or cash. We aren't getting paid in Australia and were given this opportunity by Correct Craft and the Moomba Masters organizers and we are thankful for that. They see value in the Big Dawg's existence in the sport. Most Big Dawg skiers are guys who just truly love the sport and also have a desire to compete among their peers.

 

In my first season (last year) I experienced large doses of humility (which I fully expected) but even more than that, a greater appreciation for the skiers who truly love this sport and support it.

 

I will be the first to admit that the competition at the pro level is ridiculously tough. Obviously pros truly are the best of the best. No one wants to take that away including the Big Dawgs. However, on another note even as a pro for years I consistently heard fellow pro skiers complain about what they got paid and the state of professional waterskiing. Being a business owner in the industry as well, I see both sides, but the fact is pro skiers are not alone in wishing there was more cash available. Every other person who busts their ass to earn a living and make things work in this industry shares in the burden of low margins and tough times. We do this for the passion not for the cash. Bitching that pros need to be paid more or that another group of men's skiers at a pro level is causing a problem is a bit short-sighted in my mind (and again, I am not saying that Marcus was saying this). The industry is not a grossly lucrative one as it is a niche sport. We are all doing our part (hopefully) to help grow the sport to change this fact. We have a pro team as well and we appreciate what they do, but much like any other player in the industry, we are each just a small part of th ebig picture.

 

By the way, Marcus, why aren't you at Moomba?

 

I realize I may make enemies with this post and those enemies may be the same skiers that I competed against and with for a long time. None of this is meant with disrespect to those athletes who can ski at a level that exceeds everyone else on the planet, but just know, we are all on board to help it grow and don't think you are the only people who have made sacrifices to make the sport grow and continue. Dana Reed doesn't get paid but he shows up for us all and asks nothing in return...

 

Probably too much of a rant, but...

[danbirch]

Awesome Post, Seth! Thanks.

[jipster43]

I love watching the pros to see what is possible at the highest level. I love watching the Big Dawgs for techniques that may better translate to my 34mph skiing. They both feed my passion for the sport which translates in me spending more money than my wife is aware of.

 

JP :)

[Eagle1]

It took me a couple days to read all the posts. This topic is one that I do have an opinion on. Being the owner of Eagle Sports, I've gotten the chance to interact with the skiers you all classify as pros, ones you classify as Big Dawgs, tons of amateurs, event organizers, USA Waterski officials, boat manufacturers, coaches, and other sponsors and manufacturers. I believe everyone involved with the sport has the same wish and that would be to see the sport grow to a size that would get it back in front of the masses (i.e. TV). You wouldn't believe how many conversations Dana Reed, Jen Abel and I have had on that subject. One thing I can tell you with certainty is that the Big Dawgers are viewed by the manufacturers as the heart and sole of the slalom sport. They are the guys (mostly successful business owners & professionals) that truly understand the economics that drive a company or sport. They've seen a lot and get it. They know how fast time flys. They know the hard work that's required to put on events. They know what it feels like not to have events. They know what it costs the sponsors to support there events and they all make a point to put out their hands to thank you when you do support them. We wouldn't be in slalom skiing if it wasn't for the Big Dawg skiers. It's guys like Chad Scott that introduced me to so many people and he never asked for anything in return. Instead he asked me how he could help us expand into new areas.

 

The Pro skiers are typically young adults that are just getting out of college, or in college, and still are looked at by the masses as needing help to get started in life. You can easily tell who they are because they keep putting stupid stuff on their Facebook pages (that's a complete rant of it's own). They aren't climbing the corporate ladder or running a business. They're chasing the fun and are more about self promotion. It's truly rare to find a young pro level skier with the maturity to understand the market and their eventual place in it. When we do spot those individuals, we as sponsors quickly grab them up. The Big Dawgers have seen a lot and have positioned their personal lives and incomes to allow them to do what they really love (slalom ski) into their later years. They've played out "The American Dream". My hat is off to them. Dave Miller is in better shape than most 20 yr olds. Isn't he 60 or something? Just kidding Dave.

 

All my life I've viewed being a professional athlete (at the highest level) as a person who is given the opportunity to get paid more money for playing their sport than they could ever dream of earning in an office or factory. Pros have sporting agents to represent them with contracts, endorsement deals etc... Making enough as an athlete that you'd never have to work a regular job (assuming you didn't blow it all of course). That's the real dream. When I look at waterskiing, I don't see any professional athletes that I ever dreamed of. I see a bunch of young skiers with exception talent & skill, with equipment sponsors, country expense stipens and podium incentives. No skier that I know of is making the denero I dreamed of as a kid. Waterski pros are forced to face the reality of age and having to enter the real workforce, and wondering if they'll have a place in the waterski industry when their skills deminish. Every year more skiers enter the coaching ranks competing for the same pool of students. They compete are hard off the water as they do on the water. Skiers like Regina Jaquess are putting their college degrees to work in fields that'll allow them the option of skiing on their own time later in their lives. She's a pharmicist btw.

 

The #1 topic on every agenda when organizing an event such as the Malibu Open is "How do we get more spectators to the event?" More spectators equals more potential customers and hopefully new boat owners. No boat sales = no desire for boat manufacturers to be there. It's the Big Dawg skiers that are buying new comp boats every year. There's no secret as to why Nautique is expanding that series. The top pros want free boats. They ultimately get a boat loaned to them. And at the end of the day, who's advice would you take more seriously when buying a new boat, a Big Dawger who's been around a long time and probably been in and out of countless boats, or a 19 yr old slalom phenom who's yet to understand how he does what he does? That's another reason why Nautique supports Big Dawgers.

 

I think people in and watching this sport need to re-define what we all consider Elite Pro. It can't be based on prize winnings because money payouts in this sport won't sustain anyone for very long. Six figure incomes are few and far between in watersports. There are no players unions, pension funds, health insurance or paid vacations for pro waterskiers. If earnings from the sport are the ultimate judge, then Dave Goode is the #1 ranked skier in the world. Does any other skier own their own jet? Should it be based on tournament wins? Or should it be based on # of times the skier has set a new World Record? Or should it be purely posting a specified score (i.e. 3 at 41 off). Personally, I think it's a skier that can compete in the top 10 of their peer group (34mph or 36) while maintaining and/or building a successful career and family life. There is no better pleasure than knowing your family is watching you succeed and then helping your kids follow in your footsteps or helping them succeed on their own path. A real pro is someone that can teach others. When an overall balance is there, I think there's a better chance that a person will go the extra mile to promote and/or volunteer help to the event and to others. We will never have a Pro Level like NFL, MLB, Golf, etc... We may never be on TV again because our fan base isn't there. But that doesn't mean we can't have a definition for Pro level (that isn't income based) that everyone can aspire to be. I'm sure many of you will disagree with me. What is your definition of Pro?

 

 

[Taelan28]

Definition of a pro: paid to compete.

You said six figure incomes are few and far between...they the exist?. I wouldnt have guessed they recieved much money.

They get a boar loaned to them? Sign me up, hell you can lend me a used one.

 

A good reason for someone to be sponsored is advertising, the company wants someone to show off what the equipment is capable of. Its good to see that the manufacturers see things in favor of the big dawg skiers.

 

[ForrestGump]

Taelan28, don't get sidetracked by the 6 figure income thing. There are only a couple that have/had made that much in a year. On average they might get a $500-1000 a month monthly stipend + expenses to the tournaments from a ski manufacturer + free equipment. Some might have boat deals where they get a boat loaned to them every year. Even boat deals are not the norm. It used to be that every pro had a boat. Now, probably only the top 5 or 6 have boat deals. Very few draw real salaries from sponsors. They are DEFINITELY not making much money on average. Hell, I probably spend more on my hobbies every year than the majority of the pros make. The highest paid one ever was Mapple and even during the sports heyday in the late 80s and early 90s, Nautique only paid him $5k a month.

[Eagle1]

Don't get me wrong. I get the value of the Pros. But I just look at the definition of Pro differently. I have a great group of talented athletes on our team. TGAS, Jaquess, Stisher, Parrish, Dodd, Tyler & Chad Scott. A group of varied ages and life paths sharing a common interest & passion. Some have life figured out more than others but they're all working hard to make the right choices. Heck, TGAS may end up becoming a dancer. Won't that be a hoot?

 

The biggest value the top skiers have is their youth and perception that they have yet to make all the decisions that narrow their path. They appeal to our kids, and your kids appeal to you. Here's how it works. Your kids like what they see (whether it be skill, lifestyle or the fact that they see the pros don't have life figured out either) and they deem it cool. They want to be like them. That results in you getting bombarded with "Mom/Dad, I gotta have this or I'll just die..." You think their fashion style is nuts, but look around. How many 40-50 yr olds have you seen wearing Billabong boardies, Afflication type t-shirts, Oakleys etc... The quest for youth includes the quest for cool.

 

What's funny though, is that on our team, I'd vote Chad Scott and Seth Stisher as having the highest fashion IQs. Have you ever seen Chad at a tournament? He comes with multiple vests, matching board shorts, the works. You'll find it as hard to compete with Chad on the fashion side as you will on the water skills side. We have fun kidding Parrish about his color coordination skills. He loves the edgy neon green stuff but doesn't always match top to bottom. We all laugh about it at the photo shoots. Chris is great because he's willing to try things the others won't. I always say, "How you look when you're skiing is just as important as how you ski". You never know when that perfect photo is going to be taken during an amazing run. Don't give anyone a reason not to put you on a cover no matter what level you ski at. Wait til you see Regina's bathing suit that she found to match her Flower Power Tie-dye vest.

 

 

 

 

[danbirch]

If Nate cough's up 3 @ 43 off, it'll look good no mater WHAT he's wearing. Possibly the crappier, the better (being unique). If everyone else is doing this; and you do THAT, then you create your own, unique trend, and it can actually be "cool" (as long as your scores can back it up).

[Horton]

@Eagle1

 

Hey Chuck,

Don't hold back. tell us what you really think...

[Onside135]

Afflication type t-shirts

 

To clarify...these are not cool at any age.

[Taelan28]

@ShaneH That figure actually doesnt suprise me. I would have guessed it to be around that from a logical standpoint, (The influence of the athlete has too bring in more money than he's being paid), and its what I'd pay these guys too, its not like they have tournaments every weekend to dominate. Yet what I see these guys have and the way they talk I'd guess they were getting a living out of it.

 

At any rate I'll take that sort of payment to subsidize what I like to do after work.

[liquid d]

Bruce B is right...I'll be shooting for the 16th seed in Texas just to get to ski head to head with Andy! Wow, that would be alright! I hope I have to throw the handle to make sure I don't get seeded to high!haha

[Horton]

Oooo that is a great idea. How much fun is that. I have to qualify, get in and be 16th. Seems easy enough.

 

[Sethski]

By the way, the "why aren't you at Moomba, Marcus?" was an actual question, not a jab.

 

Also, loved Terry's post...skiing because he loves it! A lot of amateur skiers could even have a little more of that attitude.

[Nick Sullivan]

I want to see more tournaments like Greg Badals. That was the best tournament I have ever watched. All from my darn laptop too. This year I will be making the 12 or 15 hour drive with my family to Greg's tournament to ski in it as (obviously) an amateur and to watch the BD and Pros and the legends ski. This will be my highlight vacation of the year.

 

I love the idea of seeing all these guys in person walking up and down the shore and interacting with the spectators. In this event you get everything. I'm 33 and I trully look up to all these skiers, is some way each of them has some serious value to me.

[jimbrake]

Sully - I agree, it is fun at Greg's to see so many great skiers up close along the shore. My favorite thing is to watch how it affects my kids, especially my youngest (12). He basically spends the day cruising up and down the shore getting autographs from the pros and loves it. Will Asher gave him his bib after he won in 2010 and now that bib must have about 20 or more signatures on it and it's in a frame in his room. For any of us and especially the kids have such good access to the pros of our sport is pretty cool.

[skidawg]

Sign up Horton "that seems easy enough", you've lost your mind!

[Chad_Scott]

As a participating member of the Big Dawg Ski Tour, I think I speak for everyone when I say that none of us are looking to take away from the accomplishments of the pro skiers. I hosted the second Big Dawg tournament in Louisiana. In the beginning, the tournament was a format for amateur skiers to have an opportunity to compete against each other in a head to head format. This was very appealing to guys to have the opportunity to compete in a format that put you directly against someone else, rather than going to a tournament and skiing for a rating. As far as taking money from the pros, I think it is just the opposite. In the beginning, the Big Dawg Qualifiers each paid $5000.00 in prize money, which was basically the entry fees for the 50 competitors. At this time the qualifiers only pay out $3000.00, with first place being $1250.00 (barely enough to cover the cost of travel to a tournament).

 

As a skier, I look forward to having the opportunity to ski in the same events as the pro skiers and have the opportunity to watch these guys as they battle each other as well. I can tell you for the most part, I believe the pro skiers dont have a problem with the Big Dawg skiers being involved in the events they are skiing. This weekend at the Moomba, several of the Pro Skiers, showed up to watch and support the event. These guys have always been nothing but supportive of us at the events. I always appreciate guys like CP, Nate, Billy, Will and all the other guys who go out of there way to be supportive of us when we are at these events. As I said earlier, I haven't ever gotten the impression that the professional skiers have a problem with the Big Dawg Skiers at the event. I think the mixture of the two is good for skiing. It shows that skiing is a sport that you can do for years to come.

 

I am sure that Marcus did not intent to stir up this much attention to his tweet. The Big Dawg is a series that give amateurs a chance to compete against each other. The format is good for skiing. Spectators understand when there is a winner and a loser, whether they have any idea what rope length is involved.

 

I think that instead of complaining about the sport not being big enough to support two tours, Marcus should get involved in helping to obtain outside sponsors to support the pro tour. Be part of the solution not the problem. Having the opportunity to work with Dana Reed and the Pro Ski Tour, I can tell you that no one works harder than Dana Reed in trying to obtain sponsorship dollars to operate a Pro Ski Tour for skiers like Marcus Brown. I have participated in the process of soliciting sponsorship dollars to maintain the pro ski tour, its not easy. Just think of the dollars that would be available if every open skier was able to obtain one sponsor outside the industry. There are usually on average 30-35 skiers in Open Men and 12-15 Skiers in Open women. If each one of these skiers was able to come up with one outside sponsor from their own contacts, I am sure Dana Reed would happily accept it for the Tour. Dana Reed's goal is always to get as much money as possible to give to the athletes. So get involved be creative and help to support your own tour to keep pro skiing alive. Dana, now with the help of a few people is tasked with raising money for the pro ski tour. April Coble voluntarily took a majority of this load off of Dana and is spear heading the fund raising effort for the pro sko tour. She gets it and understands what it takes. Its time to stop complaining and ban together to make the pro ski tour grow and continue for years to come.

 

I look forward to skiing in the Diablo Shores Pro Am tournament which again will allow the MM skiers to ski at the event with the Pros. Not to take away from them but because I am a fan of pro water skiing and enjoy the opportunity to ski at the same venue with the best skiers in our sport

[Triplett]

I hate reviving posts but as Marcus did link this in his new article I felt it was necessary to spark some discussion.

 

I saw this tweet when it came out and I initially agreed. I feel that I have a different perspective than offered by either the elite guys, who have been skiing for the past few years, and the guys who ski big dawg caliber. I suppose I should tell a little back story on this.

 

I started skiing in the 90's when pro-skiing had a legit tour and I, of course, was a wide eyed kid with all these guys I looked up to and an eventual goal to be like them one day. For most this would be just that, but I had the opportunities and talent to take it to that level. I have skied Jr. Masters and the end goal was to be on the main stage. I decided to go for an actual career and went to school for Mechanical Engineering in Michigan (not at Michigan though). But as the dream was still there I still worked hard at skiing and got to the level I am now. Now to the meat of this. I decided to pursue the dream, in an effort to not regret the chance I have, and I moved to Orlando to work with Jodi Fisher and ski professionally, what is left of it at least. I know I am in the minority as I decided to turn down the 60,000 a year job and decided to train. But to be elite it is the only way and I wanted to live my dream. I know I am not alone with this, I know two other guys who have done the same.

 

Elite skiing gave me the drive to train hard and push my limits to get to the point I am now. A big dawg series wouldn't have. I have mad respect for these guys but for them motivate a 12 year old, I just don't see it happening. I know growing up I looked up to Chris Rossi, as I trained with him a lot in the winter and with the big dawg skiers kids don't get that chance, from what I know at least. We have kids come out to train with Jodi, and there are plenty that look up to him, with good reason. All of the coaches we have in the sport come from the elite ranks, but with less events how are we going to legitimize the new pros, I mean Jodi, Lucky, Drew Ross, etc. are not going to coach forever.

 

From my perspective when I was 12, I would rather look up to a 25, 26 year old pro, or maybe even younger, than a 35+ guy my dads age, nothing against dads or anything but you guys get the point.

 

Just my perspective on this. They can coexist but in an effort to grow our sport.

[Triplett]

This is true, but we have you guys already. And kids that really want to learn to ski and get into it because of these athletes will eventually convince their parents to pick up a boat or go to ski school or whatever. I understand buying a boat is for the more privileged but I am more concerned about the young kids than adults for this sport to survive. The best bet is get kids wanting to do it and the parents follow.

 

It is hard to get a manufacturer to go out on a limb and fund this stuff, I don't see why we cant get Monster or Red Bull to sponsor a tour, or have these avenues been traveled.

 

[Ryno]

@OB Sure kids get into skiing initially because of parents or friends, but it's the glossy magazines with photo's of pro's that get that child motivated to improve and take it to the next level, rather than just treat it as a family day out. The people that watch Big Dawgs are already involved in the sport, so it's a bit of a stretch to think that a parent would get the family into skiing because of the Big Dawg series!

You're right there aren't enough Pro events, for waterskiing to grow we need to fix this and if that means cutting away some Big Dawg events so be it.

[RichardDoane]

nothing against Marcus, but I have way more respect for the BigDawg competitors that have jobs, families, and responsibilities that some of the "pros"

[MattP]

I started skiing at around the same time as @triplett did. I would call him one of the lucky ones though. I was fortunate to have parents that are skiers, competitive no. Did they know what a course was? Yes. We just did not have access to one. I stayed with slalom skiing through the rise of wake boarding. My brother @MattP_Evil_Twin went to the dark side. I followed the Pro tour. Kept up with skiers and looked to the Pros as my athlete idols. I was not into football, I was into baseball some, golf a bit more as I competed for a few years but got burnt out. But those athletes never gave me the desire to peruse their sport my passion like skiers did. It could be that I was used to being able to walk up to them at events and talk to them. The Pros in skiing did not hold them selves above the rest of us. Jodi being one of these skiers made an impact on me at a young age and became one of the skiers I followed and kept up with. As a kid I used to follow him and others around at tournaments to get their autographs. Now I can call him a number of other pros up on the phone. I started to go to Jodi's for ski school because he used to stop and talk to me at events I remembered this. It made an impact on me that a PRO skier wanted to talk to this 12 year old kid about skiing. Years later I got a job working for him and got to spend a summer living and training at his school and on tour. I now consider Jodi who was (still is) one of my idols my coach and friend. How many other you athletes can say this about their sports? I will repeat this one of my idols is one of my friends. That is why I love this sport so much.

 

I agree with Brent I would not have been pushed to be the skier and stay with it if it was not for the Pros there were out there while I was growing up in the sport. Yes I think the BD skiers are great at what they do but at 12 I would not look up to them. Has this changed now that I am 20, yes. One of the skiers I ski with the most has competed as a BD and once held his open rating at 36. Do I look up to him as a skier of course. But its the younger Pro skiers that really drove me to stay in this sport

 

 

In response to @OB

Nobody that can afford a new tournament boat can relate to an early 20 something year old aspiring pro skier...but we can relate to skiers that have families, jobs, and train the best they can to run 39.5' every round, all be it at 34.2, in a two day 6 round tournament.

I think that this says it all. The industry is KILLING IT SELF! As a 20 year old who can't afford to buy his own boat. How am I going to continue to stay active in this sport. Yes I know I am very lucky to have you @OB and the club somewhat close to me with a brand new 200 on the lift, but there are so many other skiers my age or just out of college out there that just cant afford to ski and just give it up. This is why we need a cost effective boat! Where would the boat companies be if the 20 somethings cold afford a boat and wanted to ski because of the Pros that impacted their life growing up? I think they wold be better off. Right now the people that can afford to buy the boats are guys your age who look up to the BD skiers because you are their age, and have families ect.

 

I see what your saying, and respect the hell out of you for going all in, but there aren't enough pro events to motivate kids now a days anyway.

This is true I think there should be more. I do not personally believe there is enough being done by the major companies or pro skiers to bring in sponsors with money to support a lager tour. I think most skiers have settled for what they have now. They are all talk and no action for the most part.

 

I have been contacted by and I am now working on a plan to change this along with a few other skiers at the moment who are dedicated to this sport that are not pros all under the age of 21, and who possibly never will never ski at an elite level, including my self. We are working on promoting our sport to other companies to bring the money back to support a greater pro tour.

 

In response to @Triplett

I agree with brent that if you can get the kids hooked you can drag the parents into the sport to support them. There is a Jr. skier at my club whos parents are not skiers at all but he skis all 3 events. This was surprising to me but it gave me hope that our sport might possibly have a future after all if there is a way to market it to the main stream it needs to be done. We need to attract the kids in order to keep the sport alive!

 

We need the Pros I believe to have the strongest presence to draw and hold in skiers especially the young ones! It is our sports future we need to look out for it. Yes the BD guys are good skiers but their fans are older guys as well not young kids. This is not keeping the sport alive or growing it, they are just keeping the older guys interested because they can relate to them. But us younger skiers can relate to the Pros. That in my opinion is the most important!

 

@richarddoane there are Pro skiers with these things! Look at Jodi, at one time Andy, Jeff, Seth,

 

[GK]

I think Brent makes some good points especially in regards to younger kids who need the "pros" to look up to. On the other hand, the Big Dawg skiers are looked up to equally by a different demographic. Waterskiing is not like other sports where everyone starts at a young age. Many waterskiers today don't learn about competitive waterskiing until they're in their 20's or 30's (especially collegiate skiers). If you don't start running the course until you're 20 or 30, your shot at being a pro skier are OVER however you can aspire to be good enough to compete in the Big Dawg by the time you're 35 or 40. I learned how to run the course when I joined my collegiate ski team. Now I'm 32 and have aspirations of being good enough in a few years to compete in the big dawg events. I've also got to think that if I'm 40 years old and have the opportunity to square off head-to-head against Chris Parrish or Jodi Fisher or any other ex-pro skier at the time it would be awesome! The Big Dawg series gives skiers who came into the sport later in life a chance to compete at an extremely high level. I think the Big Dawg series does what Masters Men was not able to accomplish and the MM division could probably be done away with at this point and Big Dawg events expanded around the country.

 

I do agree with Marcus however that Big Dawg events should not be given the same noteriety as the pro skiers at pro events. If you want to hold a Big Dawg event the day before a pro event then great, but the pros need to be the focus (and I think they have been up to this point). I also think that top speeds for Big Dawg and all divisions should be 36 mph as I've stated in the past but that's a whole different discussion.

[RichardDoane]

@GK - the MM division is for the top tier of M3, M4, and M5 skiers, some of which may not be interested in cash prize events and their higher entry fees

[chrispenner]

I would just like to point out on the point of BigDawg skiers having "REAL" jobs. Don't fool your selves. Most of these guys either work in the ski industry anyway and can ski anytime or they have money printers (ie. business owners, CEO's etc.) in there basements which allows them to ski anytime anywhere. To ski at 39 or shorter consistently it takes a little more then just "skiing when you have time".

 

I am with Marcus a little here. Join up, bump the boat speed up to 36 and have at it. Let the over 35 guys pay a 200 dollar entry fee too, haha sweeten the pot for everyone. I seen Dave Miller run 39 @ 36 mph. They can all do it, more bang for your buck at tourny's. Just saying.

 

Who knows, let's just make sure the elite guys are getting paid to show case the sport at a high level and may we continue to grow the sport how ever we can.

 

Not really on any side because I don't compete in either of these to groupings and really know the implications just wanted to clarify.

 

Cheers!

[T-fromTO]

@chrispenner Nobody has a money printer in their basement. It takes a real type A personality to be successful in your career AND to run 39 and shorter. It is a testament to their dedication that they can find time to juggle a high paying job and spend enough time on the water to get that good. Plus a healthy dose of talent.

[Roger]

All three Big Dawg skiers at Okeeheelee have jobs. My primary ski partner during the summer is Harold Hintringer who owns a crown molding business. He typically skies 8 sets/week. 2 Tue Night after work, 2 Thu night after work, 2 Sat, and 2 Sun. He is consistent into 41 off.

[ral]

@chrispenner, a really small percentage of the BigDawg skiers and skiers over 35 that aspire to be at that level work in the skiing industry. They mostly have real jobs, and many of them good jobs, that allow them to ski, travel and pay the bills/ support a family.

 

I do not know how old are you, but I can tell you that a small percentage of skiers over 40 can ski more than 2 sets a day 5-6 days a week in the season. And not because of time constraints or cost...You need to spend far less time training than in other sports like thriatlon or even marathons.

 

We old farts train before work, at lunchtime or after work, with blackberrys/iphones handy. Regarding stepping it up and running 36, I can tell you that the main issue is risk. Again, I do not know how old are you, but falling at high speed when you are 40 something is far more dangerous than when you are a teenager on in your twenties.

 

I own a lake (30% of it), not because I am a millionaire, but because I worked hard to build and organize it. Can say the same about @OB and @jdarwin (they can jump in and call BS if I am talking nonsense). I have done a lot to grow the sport, probably 30+ skiers are chasing buoys just because of my lake and they would be biking if I had sat in my office browsing the web instead of building it. Do not get fooled, growing this sport does not rely only in getting money to the top pros. I relate and admire senior skiers that can run into and over 39 off. I was one of the three "creators" of the Latin American Senior Tour (with Ruben Rosenberg and Juan C. Cuglievan), which now is part of the Big Dawg circuit.

 

If competitive waterskiing was just restricted to the pros, many like me would not be into it and my kids and several other kids would not have the opportunity to compete at the highest/pro level.

 

 

 

 

[Bruce_Butterfield]

chrispenner, what are you smoking? I went through the entry list for Cypress and counted a grand total of 3 entries who work in the ski industry: Chet Raley, Dave Goode and Andy Mapple. All the rest do have "REAL" jobs.

[teammalibu]

What TW. said

[teammalibu]

I know several BigDawgs who are as blue collar as it gets.