The GOODE effect?

[Ilivetoski]

So people that I have talked to the last 2 years have had pretty much the same ideas as me about GOODE. If they keep increasing their prices they wont be able to sell any skis, they can only raise them so much before people realize "is a ski really worth this much?". That said, I am starting to think we were wrong thinking that eventually GOODE would lower its prices. The HO A3 is now $1700, Strada $1400 I believe, etc. Is GOODE driving up the prices of the competitors? Do they have this idea of "well GOODE`s are $2000 so if we charge $300-$400 less we are reasonable?" I still dont think anything over $1300-$1400 should even be considered for a price on a new ski.

[BraceMaker]

I am frankly shocked that companies can sell new hand laminated and finished carbon fiber laminations over machined cores, for 1500$, and do marketing, sales, service etc. on that same payment. AND make relatively few total products in a production line on a mold/core. Imagine just how many HO A3 66" skis are really made/sold in a year, same for the Strada. Would be interesting numbers, I'm sure we're not talking multiple thousands of skis per mold/design.

 

We're talking prepreg carbon lay ups shipped and stored refrigerated, then hand laid over pvc foams, with machined insert bushings, fin boxes and fins, cosmetic layers, and then of course assembly, final finishing, and shipping, with some profits.

 

However, I do think in reality there are quite a few people who would be more than content on some of the modern shapes, with less exotic laminations, at a price point in the 700-1K range. But I do think skis are surprisingly inexpensive when you really factor in

 

I laminate some stuff at work, and charge well more than 1500$/unit to make it worth the effort.

[bigtex2011]

i think the thing that is most confusing. a new Infinity qx56 w/8 speed tranny, bluetooth, entertainment...badass suv, is roughly the same price as a sn200.. it makes no sense.

[Horton]

How many ago did skis cost $1000? What is rate of inflation?

[Nick Sullivan]

No you nailed it. Goode has been driving the prices up ever since they got into water. Ask any of the old(er) guys around here. They used to get skis for free or for penny's, that is until Goode came along. Then everything changed, companies saw how Goode was charging a Sh1T load and they started to follow suit.

[BraceMaker]

And the skiers didn't buy the skis because they liked how they rode?

 

If the light Carbon skis were terrible to ride peoplle would still be buying wood... Oh wait.

 

http://www.mahaskis.com/hpslalom.php

"67" 69" 74" Retro High Performance Slalom $2050 -

50% or more Exotic Hardwood

 

All complete skis come with High Wrap front binding and back kicker. Back kicker mounted Special High Heel add $130.

 

Your name engraved on fin & ski case. 2 High Wrap bindings for all skis add $190.

"

 

2000 gets you a laminated carbon fiber ski, or a Maharaja.

[clemsondave]

Skiing is an expensive sport. With the investment I have in time at the gym, skiing and tournaments. Then add the money spent on a boat, gas, insurance, ski gear, etc, etc. The price of the ski is not that big of an investment. Yes, I wish they were cheaper, but it doesn't make sense to me to invest all that time and money only to skimp on a ski just because of the price. Doesn't mean the most expensive is always the best, but it friggin works for me!

[bhs]

In 92 I worked at Sport Chalet and "pro formed" a Kidder Redline, bag, jacket and gloves for $200. I can't remember how much the ski was retail.

I think Goode asks a lot because he can! They seem to work for a lot of people. I recently saw a picture of the podium from 1999(?) nationals with Chuck forest AND EVERY other guy holding a Goode. If they stop performing people will stop paying.

[jdarwin]

@OB - amen, brother!!

 

[Ilivetoski]

@BHS I see your point in "if they stop performing people will stop buying" but... I guarantee people stop when he crosses the 3k mark. You heard everyone talking when the nano hit 2k and I believe that he prices inbetween 2-3k won't get much questioning, but when that ski hits 3k people are gonna say "wait, what are we doing?"

 

@clemsondave I understand it is an expensive sport, but the largest factors in skiing are 1) a 60k boat and 2) gas, using over a gallon a set and skiing alot of sets it adds up fast at nearly $4 a gallon. If you start spending 2k a year, and every year that number increases $200 in 10 years you spend $13000 in skis. $13000. That is enough for a decent used boat, a nice car for your kid, a large house payment, a TON of gas. 10 years also is not that long. Think back over the last 10 years, how much have you all spent on skis? I bet most people it is under $5000 (factor in if you sold your skis, how much out of pocket have you spent on skis)

[BraceMaker]

Warp effect?

http://www.miamiskinautiques.com/2012-Reflex-Warp-12-Slalom-Ski-Blank-p/12_reflex_warp.htm

[MattP]

@OB chill..

[skibug]

Skis are getting way out of hand price wise....it is pure economics....skiers keep paying the price so why would you sell for less. Same with boats; the SN200 is 55K - 60K new...why? Becasue people are buying them.

[Ilivetoski]

@Bracemaker but no one buys that ski.... Partly because of the price never seen 1 person on it.

 

@skibug exactly, and when GOODE crosses the 3k mark i think people will wake up and think is a ski really worth this much money?

[Ilivetoski]

@Burce55 I think you got a large part of it. Most of the people who know I ski with are doctors, suergons, and lawyers. Basically they are all very wealthy. So on a vascular suergon's salary (who is married to an antiseiologist) a couple thousand is nothing.

[MattP]

Broke college kid here... I don't want to even think about it. But I can see how money is affecting the dwindling M1,W1, and even M2, W2. Yes you M456 guys might have the money all these companies are targeting but the companies are in turn shrinking their own sport... When so many 1&2 skiers leave because they can't afford it who says they are going to come back? But if they are able to stay in the ski world whole time it would defiantly have a better impact on the sport. You guys talk about how the sport is "dying" how USAWS numbers are down. Well do the math is so freaking expensive...

@Bruce55 and @Jdarwin if you put any ideas in OBs head about how he should be charging more I might be taking a trip to Ohio and Louisiana...

[The_MS]

If a new Nautique is approaching 60k, 2 k for a ski that will last a few years is cheap. We keep buying, they keep pushing the price point until we stop.

[clemsondave]

Hey, I agree with MS! But it's not only Nautique. All of them are right up there. Actually, list prices are way more than that. I bet you could spec out a $90k+ Nautique and MC.

 

I average a new ski every 3 years or so. So $2k isn't all that bad. Especially when it is as good as it is. I think I paid $1k for my '06 X5. I'd say my Nano twist is more than twice as good as that X5(which I loved). I'd complain if that $2k ski broke down every year, but it doesn't.

[Bulldog]

The price of new boats is out of control. Its the wakeboarders fault. Stupid bling and towel racks.lol

[clemsondave]

Yep, wakeboard boats are really crazy. I bet you could spec out a G25 approaching upper $100s.

[Ilivetoski]

I did not mean to start a money war!! I am not saying all skiers are rich, just most of the ones that I ski with seem to be all very elite class. As stated above, surgeons, doctors, lawyers, dentists. I know about being broke, I am a senior in high school, I am actually at school right now... Yes the price of boats is insane and yes it is due to wakeboard boats BUT we do have to recognize that the wakeboard boats is WHY these boat companies are still in business.

 

@Clemsondave alot of peoples skis do break down every year. I get a new ski every 1-2 years depending on the shape of the ski at the end of the season. I try to get the best deals I can (SIA usually) because being in HS i cant spit up 2k or ever $1500 for a ski.

[Ilivetoski]

@MS then what happens when we stop? How long does it take them to realize to lower the price? It seems like a lose-lose for the consumer

[Ilivetoski]

@clemsondave I bet you could get a normal nothing special G25 for 100k. MC speced out is like $120-130 for X Star maybe more now that they redesigned it.

[Ilivetoski]

btw is it bad that I am in school and on BOS?

[jayski]

@OB @jdarwin

...this is a system a guy developed here based on time, uses a card system and has drastically cut down the hours on the boat and the issue with a large lump sum payment griping...

 

http://www.shalompark.com/passtime.htm

[clemsondave]

The G23 and G25 base prices are well over 100k.

 

I'd be surprised if newer skis break down after just a season. I've ridden mine pretty hard for a year and it still feels as good(e) as new. Are they replacing them because they break down, or because they are looking for something better?

[MAD11]

@bigtex2011 make u a deal. Will sell you the QX56 with 2012 TXI all in one. Heck, I think they even match. The Malibu still priced somewhat reasonable so you can have both.

2012 TXI for $42,500. (sorry for the shameless plug)

 

Cost should equal value. So far no complaints with the value on my new Goode, but I never complained about the Warp cost either. Actually it turned out to be the cheapest ski I ever bought. Four seasons and felt like new. Sold it after all that for more than any ski mentioned above except for one. Only reason it is gone because I didn't think it could be replaced so I figured I better get off it. At least that's what Goodson convinced me of in the subliminal messages he was sending to get me to sell it to him.

 

@jdarwin @ob The 3k to be a member at a site and use a boat is certainly reasonable. The only people who would complain about that are ones who haven't bought a boat before or paid HOA fees to live in a ski community. I guess it's just a perspective issue. I think we paid $1500 each (no family plans) in eastern PA over 10 years ago to ski on the only private lake around and had to have your own boat. We were just happy to get in there. Sure beat salt water and timing the tides on the busch river in MD like when I was growing up.

[bhs]

Here is another perspective. In 85 as a sophomore in high school I saved my pennies and bought an Italian bicycle, Rossin, with Campagnolo Nuovo record parts used for $500. Couldnt afford new for $1,200. Was in a shop the other day and carbon Specialized was close to $10,000! That's more then some motorcycles. I haven't been to a race in years so I don't know what the junior field looks like but I don't know how a kid today gets into a good bike. Not to mention if you are in a crash and break the frame! That is a lot of money for a bike!

[Ilivetoski]

@bhs How does a high school or middle school kid afford a $1500 ski plus $400-$700 on bindings? They cant. Thats where parents come in. I have not been so lucky, my dad bought me a Radar ANNEX 4 years ago and since then I have had to pay for all my skis, bindings, vests, handles, etc. Only thing i dont pay for is boat+gas

[slalomboy96]

Its all in the name of passion... its keeps us skiing and hanging at the lake... pushing ourselves and trying to get that extra bouy or two... lets face it if you had kids and wanted them to make money from sports... take up golf or tennis, football or rugby. relativley pro skiers make bugger all money. so all that we do is for the love of the sport, the sun, our mates, and familys, with countless memories of glassy calm water and big spray's and all the while having a big filthy grin of a content person with happiness plastered permanently on their faces. to me thats worth a 2k ski and a boat. bring on the summer... ohh and the bikini clad girls praising our prowess while sipping champane in the open bow. lol :-)

[Ilivetoski]

@slalomboy96 you dont have to have a 2k ski for that. You can ski on an old ski (trust me i skied on a 1980's Jobe 1600 for 2 years before my dad bought me the ANNEX). You dont need a ski boat for what you are describing. I also used to have a Sea Ray 185 outboard. You can ski with all this. Not at an ideal level, but you can get around some buoys. The answer to fixing ski and boat prices is somewhere on this website. Throughout all the comments, 1 had to have an idea that would work universally around the sport.

[slalomboy96]

@Ilivetoski This I know... Im just saying for me Im happy to pay that price, its not a lot in the grand scheme of life for the amount of enjoyment i get from it. happy skiing.

 

[BraceMaker]

@Ilivetoski I don't think the affordability of skiing is destroyed by the lack of recognized public water "ski" zones.

 

Regardless of gear costs, boat costs, gas costs - all of which are scalable to talent level, participants, and region. Water access is, and will continue to be the singe largest cost associated with skiing.

 

My experience has been that the accessible water is unsafe due to high traffic, and so heavily boated that progressing with waterski skills is difficult - impossible. Less accessible waters increase costs and minimize access.

 

The public lake I ski with my family for instance has one permitted course, the owners of which I am friendly with. But it happens to reside in an area of of the lake that is close to a public ramp, and draws countless jetskis who buzz around the ball. No state protections exist for users of courses, or waterskiing in general beyond basic "right of way" type boaters safety rules.

 

For 800$ you can set up a couple used decent slalom skis with wileys and RTP's and teach almost anyone to round some balls, on that same set up many people will learn and progress, and eventually they will buy skis. A 100$ trip to the gas station gets enough fuel for a group of people to ski several sets, and ~10K gets a usable 19' ski boat with a perfect pass in it usable for pulling people through a course.

 

But when the course has someone anchored between 1 and 3 ball sunbathing, and they won't vacate, you have the MOST cost prohibitive portion of waterskiing - access to private water. That's where 50-100$ a pull starts to show up. At which point I am not skiing. 1200+ on a ski, sure, 400$ of bindings whatever, some 6 gallon gas cans I can handle, and I can pony up money for a boat. But buying a private lake and maintaining it is another game all together.

[Ilivetoski]

$100 a set? My private lake is $700 a year for membership where do you wanna ski?