Wileys Vs. Stradas

[doonez]

I'm in the market for some new bindings. I don't have much to spend and would like double set up. I am coming of a pair of EXO Pros which I think are probably a bit dangerous and the release mechanism is unneeded at my level (started recently - PB is 3@15off at 58km) I have heard good things about the Wileys and they are relatively cheap. The same for Stradas however they will probably make more of a dent in my bank statement. I am wondering if anybody has ideas about this and could recommend any other setups. Thanks!

[gregy]

If you want strada's look around there are some good deals on older or used strada's. Look on ski-it-again. Ski shop websites. My buddy got some from Leftlanesports.com for steal. New. Both my ski partners ski on Strada's and really like them.

 

I personally use D3 tfactor and like them, other than I had one tear (but D3 replaced the part free when it was out of warranty).

[doonez]

@gregy yes I have noticed quite a few cheap pairs of stradas around. I live in New Zealand however and most of the US sites and sellers on ski-it-again aren't willing to send overseas (or if they are its just gonna cost way too much). The D3 factors have always looked so high to me. Do you always release when you have to?

[epyscs]

@doonez If you are based over here you can often pick up some good prices from US sites around now. Although as an importer I shouldn't really say that as we all have 2013 gear coming in or coming in soon.

 

Have you tried getting in touch with Duncan Hancock over here? He might know of some second hand Stradas for sale?

 

Give me a shout though if you are interested in staying with hardshells as I import Reflex gear and have a few options for double setups - http://www.facebook.com/ReflexSkisNZ. Although the $ might be an issue.

 

[rayn]

I think the stradas will give you a feel similar to hardshells with better safety. Radar customer service second to none. They just processed a warranty claim for me in less than week with no fuss.

[gregy]

I haven't had any issues with releasing with the tfactors. They fit a lot looser than conventional rubber boots but still give good support. I have a narrow foot, might be some comfort issues if you have a wider foot.

 

I have a business that I ship stuff all over the world. We use the US Postal Services flat rate boxes and its really not that expensive.

[ForrestGump]

I've had both Stradas and Exos. I don't feel the Stradas will be any safer than the Exos. With both, the release has to be adjusted properly. What is it about the exo's that you feel is the issue?

[Texas6]

I went from Wiley's to Stradas several years ago, and I would never go back. Love the comfort and control the system. I do lace mine fairly tight but small ankles make releasing no issue for me. I have had one instance of a one foot release on Stradas before however which should never happen on the Exo's. (and bindings werent overly tight that day). I do agree with @Shane that the Exo's should be a safe system if set up properly.

[ski6jones]

I came off Wileys to Strada (RS1's really) about 4-5 years ago. I had good performance from both. For me the main difference between the Wileys and RS1's was weight (RS1 substantially lighter) and comfort/control (RS1's are more comfortable and I feel give you better connection to the ski). The adjustment to RS1's from Wileys was pretty easy being within a few balls of my average on the first set.

 

[doonez]

@shane There are a few things that I dont really like about the exos. Safety wise the other day I had a prerelease (I assume) otf off the second wake. I cartwheeled twice and came out concussed. It was the setting I had always been using and had been working for me before. Secondly I can't find screws for the new metal tip that I got that sit flush for the bar on the bottom. As a result of the rubbing on the top of the ski the screws have rubbed quite an amount of the coating of the ski away. And with the last plastic tips they would often snap leaving the bare (quite sharp) corner of the EXO bar bare to deeply scratch the ski whenever it happened. I don't know If I have been doing something wrong but to be honest It breaks my heart to see my ski being damaged! (especially since I wont be upgrading for a very long time).

 

@epyscs Your right I have been looking at some of the deals I can get over in the states and there do seem to be some very good ones. I will message you via your facebook link because I would be interested in some of the systems you have to offer. I have been talking to Duncan and hes been quite helpful but seems to be very busy coaching at this time of the year, so at the moment I have been looking around a bit.

 

Thanks all for the feedback!

[BraceMaker]

@doonez - screws can be a challenge in many situations, best thing I've come up with (not with exo's specifically but I use T-Nuts and such lots) Is to buy a nut in the correct screw size, clamp the nut in a vice so one of the flats is up out of your vice, and slot it with a dremel or hacksaw.

 

Remove the nut from the vice, thread your screw in till it is exposed by the amount that it is too long plus maybe half a thread for clearance.

 

Then grab the nut with a vice grip, the slot will let it clamp the threads with out distorting the threads, and allow you to use a belt sander, bench grinder, dremel (or even a file) to shorten the bolts.

 

Question, the long screws which were into the ski top - were they elevating the plate off the ski? I've only seen Exo's at the shop, never ridden or dismantled them, but one thing to be aware of is that with any system if they do not seat down fully, you change the release characteristics - basically I am asking if the long screws "jacked" the plate off the ski changing your release setting unpredictably.

[Horton]

The one thing you have to be careful about with Wileys is placement. Wileys are an old design. With more modern designs the alignment between your from ankle bone and the hole pattern has changed. The result is Wileys will not mount far enough back on the ski to get to spec.

 

To put it another way, if you just drop a Wiley down in the middle hole of a new ski your front foot will be at least ½” too far forward.

 

UPDATE: looks like Wileys changed the plate. I retract my above statements about the hole patterns.

 

[doonez]

@BraceMaker No the nuts were not elevating the bar/plate at all. There is just a miniscule amount protruding too far. It is hardly noticeable to the eye but obviously enough to be a problem. I will put up a picture of the bar and of the damage. Thanks for the explanation and I might give it a try sometime if the need arises :)

 

@Horton I have been on the Wileys website and found a plate that looks like it would fit alright?

Heres the link

https://www.wileyski.com/Rear_Slalom_Highwrap_UNIVERSAL_HO_RADAR_OBRIENCONNELLYD3.asp?catID=34

If not how can I get around the problem of it being too far forwards when I mount them? Do I have to drill holes in the plate or something? Thanks

 

 

[Horton]

@doonez the rear binding is not the issue. It works great. The issue is the front slalom binding.

https://www.wileyski.com/Front_Slalom_CBO.asp?catID=34

 

You can grind and drill. That will work. I would just go with a different binding.

 

As a trick it works fine and the jump binding the only thing anyone uses.

 

UPDATE: looks like Wileys changed the plate. I retract my above statements about the hole patterns.

[tjm]

I've been on Wileys for many years. Tried Stradas for a while and went back to Wileys. Just felt better, and I skied better. Stradas always felt a little sloppy to me. I guess I got use to the ankle hug that Wileys give. Horton is correct, I had to machine the front a little, but it's not so bad, all you need is a dremel.

[doonez]

Thanks @Horton. I have seen people using just the rear Wiley with something like a reflex front. Would you recommend this setup? It would certainly lower costs if I decided to get reflexes off @epyscs if I only had to get the front Reflex and went with a Wiley rear boot. Its just a thought - Reflexes are probably far too sophisticated for me :/ I should probably stick with something simpler like the stradas!

 

Anyway here's a picture of the EXO bolts and the damage they're doing for @BraceMaker.

The bolt you see on the right was one that I found and doesn't seem to be nearly as much of a problem as the one on the left which came from HO and sticks out further!

[BraceMaker]

Ah that makes it more clear.

 

You could just buy some vinyl self adhesive graphics material and put a square on your ski under the binding.

[doonez]

@BraceMaker yes I thought of that. On the rear ones (holds the tip of the other end on) I have wound several layers of insulation tape around them. This has worked somewhat but eventually the nuts just grind though it like they have to the surface of the ski. Even if I could solve this problem I still would like to get a simpler system that gives more peace of mind about safety (as I explained to @ShaneH above) and doesn't scratch the ski up.

[eleeski]

Wileys are really heavy. Unless there is some massive performance or safety advantage, use a lighter setup. I had Wiley make up a set of jump bindings with EVA instead of rubber and drilled out the plates (and the EVA to make it comfortable). Much better but still heavy.

 

Stradas are excellent bindings - and reasonably light. I drilled out the plates for my Strada and it is a light enough setup for my slalom ski (where I spent a fortune on Graphite and Boron to make it light). Don't crank the laces on the Stradas and they are reasonably safe.

 

I've only seen older EXOs. They seem heavy, unreliable and I have heard of safety issues with them. Hopefully the new ones are better.

 

Stradas, Reflex (if you use a toe kicker) and Powershells seem to be the most common hardshells I see. Most rubber boots are really old - even on new skis. Not a rigorous survey but just my impressions.

 

Eric

[BraceMaker]

@eleeski -

 

I did notice the weight, I have a set of older Obrien Contact bindings, With the overlay off the boot is extremely light. So I am working on cutting some lighter overlays.

 

The EVA bindings you referenced, did Wiley's punch the overlays out of EVA? Or did it still have the rubber wraps?

 

I was asking a rep from Orthomerica about the material they use to make the "spectrum 2300 AFO" pic* - I could not tear this material, and it is light like EVA. Which makes me wonder about using this with flexible panel somewhere to give it some stretch, as this stuff is pretty static.

 

http://www.orthomerica.com/spectrum/img/AF-2300.jpg

[eleeski]

@BraceMaker Wiley used an EVA toepiece for me. It was light but horribly uncomfortable. Hours of drilling holes and readjusting the EVA made them work. Everything else was stock (except the plates which I Nascar drilled out). The bindings were a lot lighter than stock Wileys but still heavier than stock hardshells.

 

Wileys bindings are great for jumping. Plus they are bombproof and will last quite well, When something happens to them, Wiley will rebuild them to new for a very reasonable price. Plus the folks at Wileys are great people.

 

But I am unwilling to pay that big a weight penalty. Plus I damaged my foot badly jumping in stock Wileys - so I'm not sold on rubber boot safety. I have some ideas for jump bindings - but since I am almost the worst jumper in the world that is not a priority.

 

I have used bicycle innertube for overlays. Very light, great feel but they don't last too long.

 

The comfort and weight of an Intuition liner based boot drives me to one of those boots. Stradas, pure hardshells, FM boots or something funky and custom (I need a Gatorade - for the lid!) is my preference.

 

Eric

 

[Waternut]

I would just like to add that some kind of release mechanism is needed whether it's a fancy release or just a rubber binding. I pulled my IT band in my back leg this summer at 30mph when I went OTF with bindings that didn't release. Nagged me all summer and was extremely painful after skiing for the first month and taking 2-3 weeks off.

 

Without trying to sound like a warning on the back of a binding box, there is no such thing as a perfectly safe binding. Everything has drawbacks. What releases and saves you this time might release and hurt you next time. On the flip side, what doesn't release this time and keeps you safe won't release next time and you'll get hurt.

[doonez]

@jfw432 thanks and yes I realize this. When I am referring to a 'release mechanism' I am talking about something like the EXOs or Reflexes where there is a mechanical component which physically releases the boot from the ski rather than the foot just coming out. Thought I'd just clear that up :) I totally agree with you about the need to be released from the ski to prevent injury and I'm sorry to hear about yours. I haven't had a bad injury to date and I 'knock on wood' that the inevitable won't happen anytime soon!! Thanks

[Horton]

@doonez the only product that I essentially endorse and shamelessly promote is Radar Strada bindings. I understand not everyone loves them like I do but I feel totally safe and they do limit my ball count. You have to be smart enough to not over tighten them and they may not last as long as some other products. Darn it I need to be able to walk when I am not at the lake.

[doonez]

Thanks @Horton. I think that there is enough evidence here to confirm that stradas are probably the best bet. I have tried some on and they are as everyone says - unbelievably comfortable :) I guess I'll just have to take peoples word on how safe they are (and remember not to crank them up too hard!)

[AndersonSkiTeam]

I bought the Stradas last year and love them. Took a bit to get used to. Came off of double drafts by Connelly. I liked the drafts but the Stradas are more comfortable and have released every time they should have perfectly. I will be staying on them for a long time.

[tfriess]

Stradas. Seriously the most comfortable bindings ever. It feels like you are wearing a sock. Make sure you get the sequence plate with them.

[doonez]

@tfriess why the need for the sequence plate? I am not a top level skier would I really notice the difference? Thanks

[JamesW]

Doonez, I'm currently chasing a liner for a RS1from a shop in Newcastle OZ that purchased a ESS and had old stock. Rang the owner last week and she has boxes of this stuff at home, has not rung back, which is typical!

 

I purchased 2 RS1 boots and an adjustable rtp 2 years ago and am after another adjustable rtp and liner for a boot. This is assuming that the RS1 would suit your needs.

 

What size are you after? I'll see if they could be bothered to sell, as there were quite a few sets of RS1 boots and other slalom ski stuff. Their shop sells skate and wake stuff.

 

I have a 2009 Radar Senate C, RS1 and adjustable rtp and have never skied or seen a slalom course and am a total hack, but love skiing.

 

Cheers,

James

[doonez]

@JamesW yes that sounds good thanks but If I was to get some radar gear I would probably buy from the rep here in NZ because hes given me a bit of coaching and its good to support local :) Thanks for the heads up anyway. Just out of interest however what sort of a price do you think they'd be? Cheers

 

Just on the general topic of bindings though there should be some reflexes in the post for me to demo this week :) Has anybody had bad experiences with them? Do any of the pros on the circuit use them?

[JamesW]

Price; no idea yet but they are dusty old stock last time I saw them, so they will want to be cheap or I will just order from the US.

 

Local, what, NZ is just another Australian state!

[Horton]

@doonez Reflex is one of most popular binding systems for pros. I think- to use Reflex you need to really know what you are doing.

[ntx]

@doonez

You said that you had a prerelease otf with the EXO. Did you move your binding forward or back prior to the prerelease? Remember that they recommend differant settings based on boot location on the rail. I only ask because I had the same thing happen. -38 off skier @58. Had been on the ski and bindings with the same set up for about a month with no problems. Moved the bindings back slightly and had the rail release on the first pass at -22. Went back and looked at the chart and had to change my tension setting. No problems since. Have been on them for two full years and love them.

 

As far as the screw impressions, I have seen that on about every ski that I have had for the past 10 years.

[doonez]

@JamesW haha thanks anyway. About NZ being just another state? I feel for you - everybody wants to be associated with us ;)

 

@Horton Yes that's what I thought about the Reflexes. Why is this though? I'm prepared to be always checking them etc. Do you need to know what you're doing skiing wise or be mechanically minded? Thanks

 

@ntx no I hadn't done anything so I don't know what could have gone wrong there? As far as the screw impressions go that was really just something that I was curious if other people were putting up with the same thing.

A professional coach noticed the other day when I was standing on the start dock the other day that when I lent down to pick up the handle and put more weight on on side of the ski the whole side of the two EXO boots lifted up off the ski about a centimetre or more. He was shocked! Do yours do the same thing? I would imagine that this would be terrible for performance on the water? Would it not be more efficient if no energy was lost when we go on edge and all our movement was transferred straight to the ski? I may be completely mistaken and their meant to do this but it just doesn't seem right to me at the moment. Is this one of the reasons why they never make it further than the HO photo shoots on the feet of pros?

Just a thought :) Thanks all

[BraceMaker]

Interesting about the boots rocking off the ski. FM for instance uses a pin release in the rear of the 66 binding system, but they also have velcro under the middle of the binding plate, which keeps the bindings engaged to the ski during static activity with a low retentive force.

 

Their Revo/silvretta systems use a toe block or toe clamp to keep the front of the boot down, and then it is clamped down in the rear to keep it engaged to the ski.

 

Reflex uses toe loop and silvretta heel - also stops rocking by holding the boot to the ski.

 

Think you could snap a pic of the boots coming up? I would be curious if perhaps they are coming up because you are capable of putting edge forces into the ski which would just roll the ski when on water, but of course... ski on solid ground.

 

 

 

One thing about setting up the Silvretta heels regardless of who made the binder (reflex, ski tech, quantum, fm, Mountaineering/Downhill) - you have to bear in mind that the silvretta system essentially allows you to set up almost any boot onto the binding. Folks used to take welted hiking boots and clamp them under silvrettas to do back country skiing.

 

When used in watersport they are adapted to shells that are basically roller skate boots. Not that this is a bad thing, but if you look at the systems they are adapting, more and more components are engineered for the system so things are getting a bit more easily set up.

[doonez]

@BraceMaker I'll put a video on for you. The fact that it was on dry land was definitely a factor but it wasn't like I was putting excessive weight on them or anything.

With the reflexes are you saying that they are easier to set up than they used to be because they are making better components? I think I'm looking at some 2013 model so the newest components should be being used which. I was told that they are pretty easy to set up. Just a few tests etc to get the right tension. I'm heading off to a clinic later this month so if I did decide to go with the reflexes for whatever reason there would be people who can set me up there. Thanks and I'll see if I can get a vid of the EXOs on later today

 

[BraceMaker]

Set up on the Reflex is pretty uninvolved in my book, largely because they have plates with holes, not slots, for positioning of the Toe loop and the heel release.

 

You look at your shell to get the number, then you put the toe loop and the heel release on the plate, torque the screws down. Then you have the binding shell itself, which of course you make sure is assembled, and importantly, make sure the liner and shell are comfortable, thermoformable liners are nice if you have feet like mine - stradas have em too.

 

I thermoform my own liners, but I have infared ovens at work.

 

There is a published number for the heel ledge height, but I don't think this is even really an adjustment on Reflex boots. Maybe it used to be, but I think now its just worth a quick check with your caliper.

 

Then I would look at the chart for a recommended release number, it is based on weight primarily. Put it to that number, then do some releases of the boot before you ski it, make sure on good hard tugs you don't feel like you're breaking your foot, the boot, or your ankle.

 

And that's where you start skiing, thing is you also want to make sure you aren't so light on the number that you prerelease, or so heavy that you sprain your ankle. No such thing as a miracle binding. And you need to adjust all your buckle tensions, and mark them so you use the same everytime. Otherwise somedays you have edge control and somedays you do not.

[doonez]

Thanks @BraceMaker that sounds doable for me. I can probably see why people have reservations about them being for someone who needs to "know their stuff" because their a bit more intensive to set up than something like stradas or other bindings. In your opinion is the extra effort worth it? Also being a system with moving parts is there a bit of maintenance involved with them (apart from the usual checking screw tightness etc)?

[doonez]

Here we go @BraceMaker. I just took a quick vid for you. I tried not to put too much pressure on the ski. On the front foot I had to apply very little to get it to move as you could probably see. I put it on youtube because it was taking forever to upload directly to here.

Heres the link:

[BraceMaker]

I'm a bad person to ask about the effort. I have shells on my coffee table, cuffs on my couch, ratcheting buckles, t nuts and hardware spread out. And just put some new skate boots on my FM plates. So for me its just fun.

 

Even if you don't like this stuff so much, these systems don't have that much hardware, good assembly and your screws won't back out. Reflex has the user manual on the website. I don't think there is much in terms of home servicability on a silvretta unit.

[tfriess]

@doonez the sequence plate is a single plate for both the front and rear. It allows to make smaller adjustments. 1/8 rather than 1/4. Also, it allows the ski to flex freely.

[FrankS]

@tfriess, how do those stradas preform for you? I know comfort is a factor, but I am interested in how they ski, as I am looking into a new setup as well.

[Horton]

3/16 vs 3/8 roughly

[allycat]

hay horton was just reading your post about the wileys boots being half an inch further forward than the modern bindings .was a bit concerned because i swaped the wileys boot of my connelly outlaw to my ho triumpth just stayed in the centre holes .so i went out and measured them there exactly the same the back of the heal lines up with the centre hole on both boots (ho basis boots)put them on and measured of my foot also got the same result please correct me if i am wrong i want my ski set up proply .note this wileys boot is only 12months old they may have fixed this problem?ps i no nothing about skis but can measure .

[tjm]

@allycat you want to measure from the rubber heel, (ie: inside the horseshoe), to the back of the ski to get to spec. On some brand skis, this will put the screws in a different hole than center, which shouldn't matter as long as it measures correct. Further, on some brand skis, you won't have a binding plate hole to put the screw in, which will then require drilling the binding plate so it will align with the ski inserts. This may also require cutting the horseshoe a little to accomodate the new binding hole. It's not that big of a deal if you like the binding., just takes a little time to make it work.

[tjm]

I've also found that the Wileys fit HO's, (at least the A1), just fine, it was another Brand ski that required a little plate work.

[allycat]

thanks tjm will just have to find out what the spec s are now

[doonez]

I skied 4 sets on a Reflex + RTP last night. It took a little getting used to with the kicker but soon I was nearly back up to speed. I couldn't believe the amount of angle I was getting out of the turn. It was seriously fun!! My profile picture Is a snapshot of one of the videos.

[tfriess]

yes, @franks I think that you need a new setup and you should convince your parents

 

[FrankS]

@tfriess, yes, I know that but I was really wondering how the stradas skied?