Lake Dye

[jdarwin]

In researching not only affordable solutions but also cost-effective ones, I came across this company who had a fantastic product at a reasonable cost. I've used "cheap" dyes in the past and they simply don't last. This product lasts and is priced competitively with the "cheap" products on the market. If you are considering adding color to your lake, I would highly recommend you contact Keith and discuss your particular situation. He is extrememly helpful and as stated above, provides a top quality product at a reasonable cost.

 

Keith.Brewer@sensient.com

 

Tell Keith that Joe Darwin w/ Cottonwood recommended. That will clue him into what your usage of the product will be.

[MrJones]

Do I get credit for you posting this???

[jdarwin]

@MrJones - Ha!

[Marco]

Is it powdered or liquid dye? Also, do you.know the rough cost (per gallon, acre ft, etc.)? I didn't see that info on the website.

[MrJones]

Marco,

I spoke with Keith this morning. It is a powder. They recommend 1 jug per 3-3.5 surface acres at an average depth of 4'. I am at about 9.5 ac and am going to try starting with 2 jugs, but estimate it will take 3 to get it dark enough. Will report back in a few weeks. E-mail Keith for more info on ordering.

sj

[jdarwin]

@Marco - shoot Keith an e-mail. He can provide better insight than I. But, a 1 gallon jug of granuales (not powder) is $99.25 and covers 3-4 acres of water. And, more importantly, it lasts. I've found Aquashade to be the longest lasting but it is cost prohibitive. The same coverage with Aquashade would be $160-200.

[A_B]

I have been a water dyer for many years. I spoke with Keith today and he is sending some samples to compare. What makes their product unique is that it is granular, not powder, so hopefully not nearly as messy, and it comes in water soluable plastic bags. Toss the bag in and let it dissolve. We didn't discuss prices. It also comes in liquid, at 35% solids, which is pretty close to what I have been getting elsewhere. The powder is very difficult to not get all over, as it is very fine, you don't even see it on stuff until water hits it, then boom, blue all over, so I like to use liquid, but can't always get it.

 

Joe, I may calculate the AS differently, but I would say you could double or triple your number.

 

They also sell the Acid Yellow 23, which is the other part of AS. Use in a 1:10 ratio with blue #1. Whether this is really needed, who knows, we used blue only for years, and that did pretty good, but we have added yellow the last 5 years and our water is good as ever. Maybe it was the blue geting it over the hump or maybe it was the yellow helping the last little bit. Cannot say.

[Chuck_Dickey]

We use grass eating carp, works great!

[A_B]

We had algae issues. We threw a few Carp in for good measure. They eat filmentos moss algae as a last resort. Weeds haven't been an issue so far in 29 years.

[jdarwin]

I don't dye my water to primarily control weeds although it does help. I dye to keep the water temp down during the dog days of summer. And, it looks nice..

[Marco]

@jdarwin @mrjones Thanks for the info. We currently use Aqua Shade, but at 55 dollars a gallon, it adds up pretty fast. I'll definitely give Keith a call.

[jdarwin]

@Marco - I've always felt that Aquashade was the best product on the market until I came across this. The shipping costs are much less if you order the gallon jugs of granules.

[jdarwin]

@Marco - I've always felt that Aquashade was the best product on the market until I came across this. The shipping costs are much less if you order the gallon jugs of granules.

[Marco]

@jdarwin- We have had good sucess with Aquashade, as well as H2O Blue from Monterey Chemical. We typically use Aquashade though because we can buy it locally, but at a price (last year it was $55 gallon) and we usually use at least 10, if not more gallons per year.

 

I haven't had a chance to connect with Kieth yet, but I will as soon as get caught back up. Even with shipping, the cost will be much less than Aquashade. Thanks for alerting us to the product!

[Marco]

@jdarwin- We have had good sucess with Aquashade, as well as H2O Blue from Monterey Chemical. We typically use Aquashade though because we can buy it locally, but at a price (last year it was $55 gallon) and we usually use at least 10, if not more gallons per year.

 

I haven't had a chance to connect with Kieth yet, but I will as soon as get caught back up. Even with shipping, the cost will be much less than Aquashade. Thanks for alerting us to the product!

[LakeOneSkier]

I just priced Aquashade 10 minutes ago... $43 per gallon in the south Chicago area.

 

If you go with tossing in a dye packet, just make sure there are no retrievers in the area when they hit the water. :-)

 

[LakeOneSkier]

I just priced Aquashade 10 minutes ago... $43 per gallon in the south Chicago area.

 

If you go with tossing in a dye packet, just make sure there are no retrievers in the area when they hit the water. :-)

 

[AggieSkier]

Thanks @JDarwin. I'm getting a sample from Keith at Sensient. It will be interesting to see how much on an issue wind drift is with the granule application. Any application tips?

 

The granules are the consistency of ground coffee and is not in water soluble packets. Sensient also offers more costly 5 oz WSPs.

 

Keith said 1 gallon of their granules is equivalent to 3 gallons of Aquashade liquid. He also said Aquashade is 22% solid dye and their dye is 90-95% solids. Based on that, why doesn't 1 gal of granules equal 4 gallons of Aquashade?

 

Aquashade has blue and yellow components, Sensient is only blue.

 

We buy Aquashade at $42.50 plus tax FOB Houston distributor's warehouse

 

 

 

 

[jdarwin]

@JayG80 - application tips? Have the wind at your back! Otherwise, wait for a relatively calm day. I had no issues w/ the granules. Other WSP's seem to bust, split, leak, etc., and are a pain to deal with. I like the 1 gallon jugs of granules. As for the math regarding this equals that, I have no idea. Good question for Keith, I would guess. All I know is that is provides the same (if not better) coverage than Aquashade for less cost. Case closed for me.

[tfriess]

Very interesting topic.

I have zero knowledge about this but It is very cool. I'm wondering if you "stir" it or how does the process take place? Thanks

[A_B]

We take 5 gallon buckets of liquid on the platform and dump into the lake as we drive down the middle.

 

For powder, we made a slurry with water in the buckets, but one of my friends just puts the powder straight in the water. One year the wind blew it into his house and his wife wasn't too happy. Powder is very hard to control.

 

Granular dye samples I received looked much better to handle, than powder.

 

I think there are differences in coverage due to target parts per million. As the 4x comment above would make sense, as there is about 1.1 pound of actual blue solids in AS. The published rates of application dont agree with the multiple though.

 

 

[AggieSkier]

Sensient's sample jug of SensiPro Pond Colorant arrived and eased away my application concern. The product is the consistency of sugar and pours easily from the wide mouthed gallon container. Quicker, easier and cheaper.

 

Overall the granules are less messy and faster to pour than glugging liquid dye out of a small mouth jug. It takes 8 gallons of liquid dye for one of our lakes. We pour the dye then rinse the jugs a number of times before putting them back in the boat. 3 granular jugs vs 8 liquid jugs - less chance of spilling dye into boat.

 

After an hour, the dye is dispersing out nicely, I think we just cut our dye budget by 25%.

 

One application tip - besides pouring downwind and moving at fast idle - pour granules out to the side of the swim platform. When poured directly behind the boat the dye will eddy back up on the platform. Same thing occurs with liquid dye but I always forget that until midway through the first jug.

[jdarwin]

Just put in 4 jugs last night - lake looks fabulous.

[BraceMaker]

I'm thinking....

 

http://static.flickr.com/45/114309673_552b2f6999_m.jpg

[Marco]

@jdarwin- Can you post a picture of the results?

[A_B]

I have bought powder from Dudley Chemical and the Sensient products price out about the same, BUT the granules would be so much better to apply and control. Dudley also sells the acid yellow to complete the AS formula in a 1:10 ratio to blue.

 

Both are about 4x the cost of a liquid I get, but that is a "special" source and not always available. My lake is 2k feet by 350 average and 18 feet deep in middle, and it now only takes 15 gallons and $350 a year to recharge. Being a clay bottom also helps retain. The liquid is 50% solids and is more like syrup. A friend with a sandy bottom lake uses 5 x what I do with a much smaller and shallower lake.

 

I will go with granules as a backup. So thanks for the info @jDarwin.

 

Also agree to NOT apply from the platform or you will have blue feet for a week.

[AggieSkier]

@Marco Here are before and 15 hours after photos. 1 gallon sample treatment applied from 2 ball towards shorter end of lake. I think 2.5 gallons might be good enough for the entire lake.

[Marco]

@JayG80 - Awesome, thank you for posting the pics. I can't really tell from the photos, but does the end result have a milkey look or is it a deep aquamarine look like you get with Aqua Shade?

[A_B]

We probably put a little more dye in to control the algae.

Compare our lake to the ones to the right that are just other bottow pits without dye.

[AggieSkier]

@Marco I would not call it milky, here is another photo. Remember that this lake has only about a 1/3 dose of dye.

 

Took a ski set right after treating. Skier alternately dropped at what we were calling Caribbean or Muddy Swamp ends of the lake. Dye makes it seem so much nicer.

 

Wish I had taken a pictures when we dropped a single granule of dye in a glass of water. Deep blue.

[jdarwin]

Dye working better than expected

[klindy]

Pretty! @jdarwin

[waterskigirl]

We have spent more $$$ than I even want to remember, trying every color and dye known to man...I have also spent more hours than I want to remember researching the subject of lake water/color. From what we have learned it's more about the particulates in the water than so much which brand or type of dye. We spent many years much like the tinted murky Mississippi look no matter how much or what brand we put in. I just snapped these light is not quite right but this is color and clarity today no dye since end of last August, we added 12 quarts of Blue Lagoon. So we have found the best way to save on dye is to reduce turbidity particulates. Saving us tons of $$$$...if anyone has questions feel free to ask, I could write a novel!(but I won't) LOL

[jdarwin]

@waterskigirl - good points. I've been down the same road but in the end, when purchasing dye, you have to source good quality at a good price. I think I achieved that for the first time.

[A_B]

A photo from the archives, my lake co-owner, Kirk Smurf....

 

[waterskigirl]

Yeah, actually no replacement for a great deal on dye, using any amount!

Who amoung us can't stand to save a buck or two with great results!

[AggieSkier]

Put 11 gallons of Sensient granules in on Friday. Applied over 4 lakes. Looks good.

 

We were blessed with 1.6" of rain on Saturday night. The lakes are now full and did not lose the dye. Lucky we did not get 6-7" of rain that some Houston areas got

[usaski1]

@jay.. I understand the dye situation... but man we could have used that rain in Houston last night... it all hit just south of I10. We are calculating time until unskiable here.. Current guess is 40 days.

[A_B]

It literally rained all day here in NW Ohio.

Would be nice to catch some nice weather on a weekend so we can get some work done!

The boat is still in storage.

[MrJones]

This is just a follow up. I used 3 jugs about a week ago in our 9 ac lake. Seems to have done the job very well. I plan on adding the last jug in about a month as a tune up. Trying to wait until it stops raining. Sorry to mention that to you guys in Texas and Oklahoma.

[ForrestGump]

Just to let some know, in case you don't......... more is not better when it comes to dye. You can completely screw up a lake to where it is un-skiable so go off of the recommended manufacturer's guidelines. I've experienced that recently at a well known site and it's happened a few times at other places in the past.

[jwroblew]

@ShaneH what makes it un-skable?

[eleeski]

@ShaneH I'll call BS on that one. I've skied on white glacier water, severe clear water, opaque clay silt water, flourescent green plankton algae water and heavily dyed water. Visual cues do change but nothing is going to change the density of the water in the same orders as salt water or cold water (substitute hot water if you're from Minnesota). Salt water and cold water ski fine - as does weird looking water.

 

Herd mentality can lead to interesting beliefs. The earth is flat, vaccines cause diseases and this lake skis funny after the dye. Check the science. Be skeptical enough to not drink the Koolaide.

 

Eric

[ForrestGump]

@eleeski I don't care what you want to call it, you are dead wrong in this case. After we experienced it, I called a friend who's a chemist and an environmental water quality consultant. He confirmed that enough dye will act as a surfactant and change the surface tension of the water. It was relayed to us that this also happened twice in California in the last 4-5 years where no one could run their opener at an R tournament(one tournament).

[eleeski]

@ShaneH Pure Aquashade may have enough surfactant generated surface tension changes to mask the changes generated by temperature swings but once diluted into the millions of gallons of a ski lake the temperature changes are a much higher order factor. My lake can swing 15F in a day depending on winds and heat levels. While I certainly can feel the difference, I am also capable of skiing in either water.

 

None of the dyes I have stained my skin with has been nearly as strong a surfactant as the dish soap that gets poured into lakes via binding lube. I've seen tournaments go through gallons without changing the water.

 

Visual cues do change with water coloration. Yesterday's clear water may offer very different visual feedback from today's tidy bowl blue. And if you are a bit concerned with keeping your hair dry for fear of it turning blue, your style will change as well. These things can have a real effect on buoy count - but the dye didn't change the properties of the water.

 

I've skied at Imperial right after a "water" issue. Day one everyone skied well. Day two the lake color changed and nobody could make a pass. I wasn't there for the transition but I couldn't feel anything wrong with the water - except everybody kept distracting me with "does the water feel ok for you?" might have cost me a couple of buoys.

 

The placebo effect, suggestability differences and streaky luck can effect buoy counts. Once a few people screw up, everyone will. That's a great opportunity for the mentally tough. Next big tournament, I'm going to dump a whole bunch of dye in the lake to freak everyone else out!!

 

Eric

[A_B]

Oh great, one more thing I can blame poor skiing on.....

[ForrestGump]

In the case I'm citing it took a LOT of dye. They probably used 500% too much.

[jwroblew]

A little off topic but not much, is any-buddy using anything to get rid of the muck at the bottom of the lake, if so what? The muck is a food source for the weeds / algea, reducing the food source should reduce the plant growth, right?

[Skoot1123]

@jwroblew - a very large crane and a bucket will take care of that. (think dragline) Hopefully this is once in a 30-40 year occurence. Part of that muck on the bottom is sediment, but the big part that I think you are refering to is the decomposed plant matter which effectively provides more nutrients than your lake can use. This causes very fast growth of the weeds in the lake. (another reason to start using dye in the lake ASAP) Lake design will also play a part in how the weed growth is controlled. This is one reason to have steep sides on the waterline. Just my two cents.

[MrJones]

Getting off topic here, but I am about to hit the lake with copper sulfate as well.