Tips Needed - Continuing the No-Shame 15 Off Club (video)

[aswinter05]

Thanks in advance. I know i need to get more confident crossing the wakes. I'm having LOTS of trouble turning the ski primarily because I'm tail riding. No matter how much I tell myself to get my weight over my front foot, it just doesn't happen. I also "sit" a lot. It's still early in the season. Ski school this weekend.

 

I think I need to "re-learn" how to turn a ski. I might be trying to turn the ski too much with my legs and feet instead of letting my upper body mass do the work. Can someone help me out a bit with "turning philosophy"? Thanks again.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNsSf-djY7I

 

[gregy]

Don't think about turning the ski. Ski should turn itself. You get the ski on edge and weight toward front foot it should come around. It a little counter intuitive. Seth had me working on this last weekend, you get a smoother turn and feel more stable. Move your inner hip in and forward which should also help you from getting it the sit position.

[MattP]

Get much wider on your gate. At 15off you have about 23 extra feet of rope to help you so use it. Get a minimum of 15 feet wide of the 246 buoy line when you turn it. I would also say pull out earlier and longer.

[Jordan]

A couple of things that might help.

 

1) when you are finishing the turn, ski your hip to the handle

 

2) when you get there, LEAN away from the boat...all the way through the wakes

 

3) you appear to have your arms bent when you are "pulling". You have to get your arms straight, hands down by your waist...hips forward. This allows for a lot more lean, this will make crossing the wake much easier

 

Try to feel the movements, or body position that creates speed through the wakes. Take a look at your body position as you pull out to start your gate. You are in a much more stacked position than

when you cross the wakes.

 

When you finish the turn, you start to lean, then you give up on it and hit the wake with a flat ski. You need to increase your lean as you approach the wake. I know that it seems counter to your survival, but it is way easier and safer to cross the wake on a deep edge.

 

 

[bogboy]

Aswinter05, I'm feelin the love. Get that ski on edge, and pull your guts out. Change edge, glide, kiss the inside, hold your fall, and repeat. It may not be pretty, but it gets better. Keep your weight down, stay in shape, and go for it.

[ToddL]

Eliminate the word "Pull" from your slalom skiing vocabulary. We don't "pull"; we LEAN.

 

Also, you have to get the ski moving side to side faster than the boat is going down the lake. Let that sink in for a second... Right now, that might not be obvious, but as you speed up and the rope gets shorter, this becomes key. LEANING with the ski pointed across the wakes will generate more speed, more angle, and an earlier path to the buoy line.

 

Also, your most effort while LEANING is through the 1st wake (white water to boat center-line). This starts off easy at the completion of the turn and builds as you approach the wake. After the center-line you maintain the lean until you are sure you have the speed and path early to the buoy. At slower speeds and longer lines, this is past the 2nd wake. You should be leaning and feel the first wake (bump), the second wake (bump), and a bit of water after the wake (smooth) before your edge change.

 

Visualize the goal: You don't want to ski towards the buoys to start the turn. You want to pass them while on the way back inward to the center line at the finish of the turn. Thus, you want to get over to the other side sooner and continue out wider and earlier than the buoy. The target point of your lean is about 15 feet early of the buoy and about 4 feet wider than the buoy line. Aim your ski and LEAN in the direction of that point.

 

Do the next bits the whole time you are on your ski (as soon as you are up, around the turn at the ends of the lake, after the exit gates, and during the pass):

Push with your legs to make you taller. You have to push with your legs to make them lengthen. This makes you stand taller on the ski which fixes the sitting issue. Standing taller makes your LEANING more efficient. Also, stand on the balls of your feet. Try to feel no pressure under your heals. Focus on having 75% of your weight on the ball of your front foot and 0% on the heal of your back foot. This gets you more stacked.

 

Turning...

The turn is the ski's job, not yours. Your job is to get the ski enough speed across the wake that you can make a early and complete edge change so that ski has enough momentum to carve on its inside edge with some speed. That will make the turns rock.

 

Some more basics...

* Standing tall and strong on the ski even while leaning, crossing the wake, turning

* Weight (hips, shoulders, head) centered above both of your feet (stacked)

* Carving the turn until the ski moves back around between you and the boat

* Starting across the wake with easy effort, then progressively adding counter-effort as the boat's force increases

* Arms straight with elbows tucked to the vest while leaning across the wakes

* Legs strong and tall with your rear tucked up and in while crossing the wakes

* Stay fluid and smooth with all of your actions and movements

 

Maybe watch this video while noticing the early approach to the buoys:

[Jim Neely]

@aswinter05 I'm optimistic we'll both see improvement by the time we leave Coble's next week.

[bogboy]

@toddl, very well said, and nice, smooth skiing. Nice carbon pro.

[Greg Banish]

@ToddL - I can't believe someone on here dug up one of MY videos as an example of how to do something correctly! I came into this thread looking for tips for myself. I am humbled and proud all at the same time. Thanks! I have some work to do to recover from our long winter and get some semblance of form back again so I can shorten this rope.

[bogboy]

I mean Caron v.

[lhoover]

aswinter, hate to admit OB having said something worthy, but indeed he did. You might mosey on over to fifteenoff.com at your leisure and search "Professor". Read "The Professor" diatribe for further enlightenment, apply correctly, and be prepared to shorten that rope.

[ScarletArrow]

I agree with @MattP Pullout sooner, with a little more intensity to get wide for that gate shot.

 

You're setting yourself up to be narrow right from the start.

 

I don't think your turns are your main issue...you need more intensity behind the boat.

[ToddL]

@bogboy - that's a borrowed vid (not me). Now, I know it is @eficalibrator! eficalibrator - I was searching specifically for a GoPro video that wasn't at extreme shortline and had a good, early path to the buoys. I wanted that for an instructional page on my club's web site. Your video was the one I chose!

[ral]

Complementing what @OB stated, crossing the ski on edge and not flat will result in less falls. A flat ski at the wakes is the best recipe for a spectacular crash.

[aswinter05]

Awesome tips. I will be focusing on more ski angle and "lean" this weekend. I had better get off my flat ski before ski school considering those 197 wakes aren't NEAR as forgiving as my 200's wake and slower speeds.

 

@OB , as always, thanks for the "gentle" advice. I can assure you that I will be working on those pointers. Can't wait to show you up one day when you visit S.K.I. !

 

@Jim Neely , Can't wait for next week. Ski school couldn't come at a better time for me. I'm starting to get frustrated early in the season. Time for a relaxing vacation and great food to rid of frustration.

 

@ToddL , love the reply. For a beginner skier like me, it's nice to read ideas put into simple terms. I'm still a bit confused about "pushing with your legs to make you taller" . Obviously I need to keep soft knees while doing this, however, the two ideas seem difficult to combine.

 

@MattP , The next video I post I'll be sure to pull out wider/earlier/longer. I have realized that some of my better passes started with a wide and early approach to 1 ball.

[ToddL]

@aswinter05 Forget soft knees. You want bent front ankle. With a bent front ankle, the knees will know what to do on their own. The pushing with the legs bit is most important as you feel the force from the boat during the first half of the wake crossing. FYI - pushing with the legs while leaning will also cause your hips to come up, too. That taller lever body position will make your lean more effective and efficient.

[ForrestGump]

I'd be careful in saying push with the legs. I think a better term is resist. If you push on the ski, it will bounce at the wake.

[ToddL]

@ShaneH - I get what you are saying. But, I can be in a squatty, butt-dragging, overly-bent-knees position and still be resisting...

 

I guess a better way of saying this is: If you have issues with being squatty while crossing the wakes, you have to use your leg muscles to make yourself a taller/longer lever while leaning. I also think about "put distance between your shoulders and your feet". This thought also addresses broken at the waist. If you are bent forward, you don't have distance between your feet and shoulders...

 

 

BTW - I think "Hips up" is useless thought if the skier is still squatting with their legs. I see many newbe skiers who come into the first wake and almost make a sitting movement in an attempt to absorb the wake. This is probably appropriate to some degree with skiers at less than 26 MPH. Above that, the skier should be leaning and slicing through the wakes. BTW, the wake never totally disappears at -15. The wakes are always felt by the skier. However, the bump is no big deal when stacked and on edge.