Back Problems

[coskier]

Hello,

 

Every summer around this time I get lower back problems from skiing, I think it is from getting up out of the water. I was wondering if anyone has ever had issues and tried a skiing with a back brace like power lifters use? Also I was thinking a wider ski might get me out of the water faster? I have a HO CoX was thinking of trying a Radar Senant or??. Any other advice would be much appreciated.

[Ed_Obermeier]

A wider ski will help, a back brace will help a little, but ultimately you need to be working actively and regularly on your core strength. Planks and crunchs are a good place to start but truely balanced core strength requires more than that. I've been where you are now. If you want to keep skiing into older age (I'm pushing 58) ultimately you have to make a serious investment in building good solid core strength. Google core exersizes for starters.

 

Ed

[ToddF]

I get it more during ski season. I had an MRI done not just for that, but it turns out that I have some arthritis down there. The worst is backing the boat in the garage after skiing.

 

I tried a Velcro weight belt, just made it harder to breath at the end of the pass, didn't help me.

[Wish]

Wider ski did help me a lot. Went from a traditional Goode to an S2. I wear a weight belt. My Ortho Dr. refers to it as the squisher. It does give some suport but as said, it's gotta be tight enough were breathing is done at chest level. As you tighten your abs when needed, it does support the back by squishing everything around it. You may want to have an MRI done to rule out bulged or hurniated (sp) disks. Especially if you have any pain running down either leg. Lots of life style changes for me helped. I get in and out of a car different. I sit different, I use a sleep number bed, I keep my hamstrings and glutes stretched. I use an inversion table. I suck at keeping my core strong through alternative exercises but that is key. And I DO NOT hang on to any substantial slack line....ever. I toss the rope often. Not worth the extra half buoy in practice just to find myself on the dock for the next week. And if my back feels week or tweaked before a set.... then it's just opener passes and maybe one line shorter.

[billb]

I have two heriated discs in my lower back (L4-L5 and L5-S1). I used to use a RTP and the ups would kill me. I switched to double boots and the difference is incredible. It'll take a few weeks to get used to double boots, but you'll never want to go back.

[rawly]

I also have the herniated discs and ski with a back brace.The one that I and a few of the other guys I ski with use is the Valeo classic waterproof 6" belt.My back flares up if I put too much pressure on my back foot on my starts(pushing the ski forward)or bad position out of the turns.Take care of your back.Good luck my friend.

[baja]

All good advice above. Also try the yoga "child's pose". Really works for me in stretching the lower back muscles and spine. Google it.

[The_MS]

Foam roller and a Tetter hang ups has eliminated my issue.

[bogboy]

Another exercise to consider, IMO, is lap swimming. I think it strengthens all your muscles, and helps a great deal with flexibility.

[JackSunsetLakes]

A lot of people ski with a back brace. It helps keep your hips in place. Shiek makes some great ones. They do take a set or 2 to get used to, but be patient and it will make a big difference.

 

Stretching before and after skiing is essential too. Inversion tables, and yantra mats help a ton as well. Just remember to stretch and do exercises that engage your core.

 

Good luck.

[jwroblew]

I agree with @bogboy, just want to add if you swim and look forward to much you will arch your back and that may cause your back muscles to become tight, you want to keep your chin down and look at the bottom of the pool

[ToddL]

My chiropractor does this technique called Graston. It was created by a guy who had knee issues due to water skiing. Anyway, my lower back was jacked up for a week or more. He worked on it on a Monday with this technique, it was good as new in a few days, and I skied in a tourny that weekend.

 

The technique is deep tissue manipulation and it is not terribly comfortable. In theory, the tools are used to work out adhesion in the soft tissue to restore normal function. Used improperly, I guess it could further the injury. However, the practitioner must be certified in the technique to use it. I think it is similar to Active Release but using tools...

[ral]

Back belts are not a good strategy for sports in general (other than weight lifting), you just get addicted to them. I would say that back problems are recurrent in slalom, and after a certain level usually not related with waterstarts but with slack/tug of wars with the boat. Core strenghtening and stretching/yoga are the best strategies IMHO.

[ral]

Back belts are not a good strategy for sports in general (other than weight lifting), you just get addicted to them. I would say that back problems are recurrent in slalom, and after a certain level usually not related with waterstarts but with slack/tug of wars with the boat. Core strenghtening and stretching/yoga are the best strategies IMHO.

[eleeski]

Goode Powervest? Hopefully I'll get healthy enough to retire the thing but it does help. Slack shots (why do I get one at every buoy?) are softened. Starts are truly magic. But the pull is weird and I think it has cost me a few buoys. It may have moved the load onto a different part of my body - now my hip really hurts...

 

Eric

 

PS Foot out deepwater starts are easier on my body than double boots. Core strength and flexibility are always good.

[A_B]

http://www.activerelease.com/

 

Find one of these guys near you. Ours is also a Chiro and licensed acupuncturist.

If none available, see a good Kinesiologist.

Cured my low back issues when nothing else worked.

 

Then buy a slalom ski to run the course, and not to fix your back issues.

[coskier]

Thanks for the advice! It doesnt help that I work construction and Crossfit a few times a week. Would you recommend a ski other than the Co X? Is the Senate a wider ski?

[A_B]

I would take care of the back first and make sure you have no muscles that are tied up. Any ski you get on will cause problems.

 

Could it be from working more construction in the summer?

 

Heck, my back would lock up when I got out of the car.

[Wish]

You may want to look at how you do your job from an erganomics standpoint and figure out what strains the back and find alternative positions to do the same job. I basically had to do this. Help emensly. My physical therapist went through verios alternatives to movements I was doing at work among general life alterations. The COx is a great ski for the back in that it has low drag and can potentially lesson the load needed to accelerate the ski. My reasoning behind purchasing the S2. Crossfit is good for the core and construction could be similar, but it's how you make the movements and the awareness of what is putting the strain on your back. So finding alternative movements to work the same muscles or do the same job could also help.

[Steven_Haines]

@AB, were your back problems related to muscle issues or disc problems? I have problems with L5 S1 and my muscles are always tight. I try to stretch which helps but probably don't get enough water as I find that I cramp up easily. Water is probably the answer. Why don't I drink more?

[A_B]

Steven, the event that we think caused problems for several years until fixed by a Kinesiologist, was a muscle pull. I was going to play basketball in the winter and slipped on the ice. Feet flying straight in front of me and I caught myself on the trunk of my car with my left elbow. Immediate pain. Went in to the gym tried to lossen up and couldn't run at all. It quieted down weeks later and eventually didn't feel bad at all. But, every once in a while, it would lock up and I couldn't even stand up straight. I went to a regular Doc, a couple different Chiros that have helped with other issues over the years, but the Kinesiologist un-torqued my muscles that were traumatized and never relaxed. He used Rolfing, deep tissue massage, traction on a table, and after a few weeks, I felt like a million bucks and NEVER had a lockup again.

 

The ART guy I see now is much more aggressive with his treatment, but I would go to either Kn in town.

 

If the muscles are not in balance and firing properly, it strains joints and nerves.

[Steven_Haines]

@AB, Thanks! I'll do some research in my area for those types of Docs. I'm a lot better but still have an area that is "smoldering" that I've just gotten used to. It'd be nice to feel some what normal!

[cragginshred]

For perspective a kinesiologist is a bachelor level degree, Physical therapists are phd's these days. Chiros do not work in hospitals for a reason so, who do you want to get advice or treatment from?

Yes a PT. 1# think cause versus symptom. Getting 'adjusted' treats a symptom (and we do many grade5 mobs too), but as AB pointed out core strength is key. Plus stretching hip flexors, hams piriformis ect also crucial. Thoracic spine mobs into extension key as well. And finally ICE -it works!!

[A_B]

The guys in Toledo area have both been around a long time. They are both Chiros and Kn. One does passive and one does ART, both are successful. Nothing against PT's, but I have been hit or miss with PT's in my area, with me and my kids who play sports. The PT that I liked, and thought was spot on with some sports injuries, moved out of the area. What I don't like is going to a PT in obvious pain, and they say we will run your insurance and see how many treatments you are covered for...so let's schedule something for next week. I told them I would pay cash on the spot, but their "protocol" was to get the insurance approved first before treatment. That did not sound like they had my best interest in mind...

 

My ski partner is getting his shoulder worked on by the ART guy as a last ditch effort to avoid surgery, after months of PT. He stopped skiing last July after messing it up and struggled playing basketball this winter. He actually has skied 3 times this season and said the ART is what has got his shoulder moving pain free again.

 

I know about the degrees, as I look at those when evaluating physicians. I went to the Kn for my back years ago with much skepticism and continual urging given from a friend who had his back fixed. These guys won't be in your insurance plan, so plan to pay out of pocket. But, what is it worth to ski or get out of your car without pain?

[lff]

I used to have chronic pain in my lower left side by the end of the season(left foot forward) that seemed to be aggravated by skiing. I found one of my wife's yoga dvd's and gave it a shot out of desperation and it fixed the problem almost immediately. It seems to originate from my hamstrings and working on those really makes a difference.

[Rich]

I have Spondylolisthesis and had suffered from back problems from age 15. I tried everything and was able to keep it at bay with exercise. (This meant I had 1-2 major back spaams per water ski season) About 4 years ago I was able to really pin it down and started to stretch my psoias. If you look at the muscle and realize we stand on a ski in a way that will really tighten this muscle keeping it stretched is very important to skiers. Also make sure you are HYDRATED, keep your core muscles strong, you are only as good as your weakest link. Also about 4 years ago I stepped up my BIKRAM Yoga practice from 2-3 times per week to 5-6. That made a huge difference in both my back injuries (I have not had one the last 4 years) and my performance have improved. Learn about yourself, find your weakest links and improve them! Good Luck!!!

[gump]

@rich,thanks a lot.because of Cold weather And water i had lower back muscles problems.i have try your pictures stretching And it works very Well for me

 

[Than_Bogan]

Psoas is indeed super-important and problematic to us slalom folks. I have a great massage guy (named Larry so I amuse myself by calling him Larry the Massage Guy) who knows how to work the psoas. Very strange feeling, but BOY does that free things up.

 

-Than

[allycat]

i am with bogboy lap swimming is good a visit to a good physical therapist is a better idea worked for me when my back went a few simple exercises and all was fine (these exercises had a similar action to freestyle swimming) .the best thing i have found for my back and general health is watersking a good excuse to do more of it

[Zman]

What @allycat said - more skiing is therapeutic. I swear by it - but my wife thinks I'm crazy.

[cragginshred]

AB , Agreed billing is a sticky issue in this economy. I cannot speak for your state or region. But to reiterate Kn is the study motion and does not include treatment. Anyone who has a career in this could not get into a PT program. For instance this year Loma Linda Univ had something like 700 applications and around 200 got in. That leaves you 500 Kn undergrad students with zero training in evaluation and treatment more than willing to treat you for cash pay. I could go on but will not, just trying to bring folks up to speed on the reality that *most* Physical therapy clinics are or should be treating patients from an evidence based perspective. Keep in mind there is level 1-5 evidence out there. I will let you do some homework to figure out which has the most validity to it.

@ Rich your on the right track, the hip flexor is a major culprit to back pain. Look up 'tri plane stretching illiopsoas'!

[A_B]

Just saying what worked for me after conventional medicine, including Chiros and PT failed to help. This was over several years. Had muscle relaxers prescribed and PT from conventional medicine and saw both manual and mechanical manipulation Chiropractic. After Kn determined the muscles that were out of balance, and got them firing again, it was welcome relief.

 

As anything, it probably depends on the actual practitioners, as I have had good and bad PT, as well as an Orthopedic Surgeon who seemed late for a tee time tell me he wanted to scope a tumor in my knee, and a lengthy discussion with a second opinion Ortho saying it absolutely needed delicate scalpel surgery and NOT a scope.

 

To me, it makes a lot of sense to have the muscle movement working correctly, no matter how you choose to use the various disciplines available.

 

 

[cragginshred]

Agreed. To me I have worked with many 'old school' PTs I would never seek advice from as well as many many up to date evidence based PT's who stand alone n this field for musculoskeletal knowledge and treatment. Same is true with MD's. People think MD after a name means they are going to continuing education courses and have the ability to assess musculoskeletal disorders. The main script we get from family Docs is 'back pain' , if they get bold it says 'low back pain'.

Then you have orthopedic Docs who if sports trained Rock! It is up to the patient to be armed with information and seek those practitioners most knowledgeable to help them. And don't forget nurse practitioners who run Dr's offices are just nurses who went back to school for a few semesters and took a test with no internships and such. Not slamming anyone, just providing much needed info for those who want to know!

[Waternut]

@billb I'm very curious how the RTP hurt your back? I specifically went from double boots to a RTP because starts were easier and it didn't load my back every pull up.

[billb]

I learned and used to get up dragging the foot that went in to the RTP. That seemed to cause a huge load on my lower back. With double boots, I just curl up in a ball and feel no pull on my lower back at all.

[bhs]

I recently switched back to a RTP so I could come out with one foot. Found out in fall through MRI i have degenerating L4L5. Interesting because I have the opposite feeling RTP = less load. With double boots and a rounded back I felt a lot of strain. Not sure this is right but, loading the back rounded is a bad idea and by dragging a foot I'm able to keep back more erect. It also takes less throttle.

[billb]

I guess this is another lesson in different strokes for different folks. I guess there is no single method that works for everyone.

Just curious, are you a lighter guy? I'm bigger - 6'5, 245lbs.

[bhs]

Yeah it's interesting...6' 2" 190 so maybe your on to something.

[rawly]

Thanks Rich. Didn't even know I had a psoias muscle. Missed two ski days this week and was gonna cancel this weekend because of low back issues. Did those stretches yesterday and my back started feeling better right away.Got in a ski ride today. Thanks for the tip

[Deanoski]

I ditto the Roger Teeter easy up inversion boots !!

[Ed_Obermeier]

Thanks Rich, your post was definitely enlightening. I stretch a bunch and some stretchs I do kind of hit that area but not as specifically as what you posted. I now encorporate 2 - 3 stretchs a couple of times a day specifically targeting the psoias and it definitely helps. I also have a Teeter inversion table @Deanoski, also a big help.

[rawly]

Teeter inversion table as well for me. The interesting fact is Roger Teeter invented his inversion table to deal with his back pain to be able to waterski at a national level. From what I understand he was also the owner of EP skis back in the day.

[gsm_peter]

Same type of problem. Tried many cures. Not found a working one yet.

 

I train reguarly on intermadiate level.

The more I train the harder I ski.

 

I do not know how fix it. My last years training:

- Bike to work T/R 10 miles per day 180 days per year (even in snow)

- Gym (Core, Cross Fit, Yoga, Body pump etc) 2 times a week (1 time when sking)

- Snow sking type 25 days this seson (GS and SL and free sking).

- Open water swiming 20 times (half mile up to almost a full mile)

- Water sking 50 sets

- Streching daily

 

So my lower back pain remains the same (or get sligetly worse).

 

=0((

 

[A_B]

See my posts above. I wouldn't recommend something that did not work for me and some of my friends.