Riding the tail.....

[ctsmith]

I'm at 15 off 28/30/32 mph. Run 28 most all the time, 30 sometimes, and best is 5 at 32 mph. My on side can not be described as good, but we'll say its not bad. My off side is terrible. I can't seem to get a stacked position out of 1/3/5 (RFF). The problem starts pre-turn and only gets worse. But first I need to get the foundation fixed. I am riding the tail through the entire course. You can see air between the ski and water under the front boot most of the time. Obviously I need to get more weight on the front foot but I seem to struggle continually with it. My only excuse is very tight achilles (tore both of them on a dirt bike huge flat landing). When I am in a good solid skiing stance over my front foot, it is nearly impossible to get my rear foot's heel on the ground. When my rear heel goes to the ground it pulls my balance from the front foot to the rear.

 

You guys know of any tricks to help me focus more on the front foot pressure, or overcome tight ankles/achilles?

[ForrestGump]

2 things....

1. video- hard to tell what your real problem is without seeing it

2. What is the ankle to ankle bone to ankle bone distance between your front and rear feet? And how tall are you?

 

If you can't stand flat footed with your front knee over the ball of your front foot then either your feet are too far apart or you need some serious physical therapy. Or yoga.

[Oldutskier]

Think about bending your front ankle and putting 80% of your weight on your front foot. I you keep your front ankle flexed forward it forces you to put more weight on the ski

 

I do not think it really matters if your rear foot is not flat on the ski.

 

 

[bogboy]

@ctsmith, when I get on my tail, it really brings me down course more, and puts me into scramble mode to salvage the pass. Someone told me a couple years ago at radar lake that your front foot is an accelerator. This also helps me to stay off of my rear foot more. I have to combine that with body and handle position though. I am just a baby at this. I find it helpful to hear what the good skiers think.

[ctsmith]

I guess video can only help but its painful. And yes I need yoga. BAD tight. 5'8" 185 lbs. Excuse the boat path and sound effects. My wife and 11 year old daughter (running IPad) only do this out of love and pity. Speed was suppose to be 28 on first and 30 coming back.

 

https://vimeo.com/68001264

 

[usaski1]

At least on my ski, I really need to make sure I am riding the tail, especially around turns, or I will wash out the take around the ball and be done. Its kind of a touchy thing... I want to get forward as I come around the ball to help me get the best acceleration for the next one... and to slow the ski down.. but if I do it too much I spin out... I'm almost all the way back already on the ski.

[Oldutskier]

Your front leg looks almost locked straight. See frame at :51 and :54 seconds. Flex your front ankle and bend you knee and it might help you.

[ForrestGump]

Back leg bent and front leg completely straight = recipe for tail riding. You can't get that front leg any straighter coming away from the second wake towards 1/3/5.

[ctsmith]

I'm hoping to ski this afternoon. Will focus on bent front knee and ankle. Of course, Albritton has been telling me that every time I'm fortunate enough to ski with him. Can't drill it through my thick skull. I was hoping you guys had lightning in a bottle. I mean, this is easy, right? 14 year old girls running into 38 off consistently. Surely I can do it.

[ForrestGump]

Don't focus on bent front knee. Instead focus on flexing that front ankle forward. If you tell 10 people to bend their knee, 9 of them will squat. If you tell 10 people to flex their front ankle forward, 9 of them will flex and bend their knee too. Boom! That's what you want.

 

In your case, it also appears your bending your back leg too much, as you can see your back knee go beside your front leg. So when you flex the front ankle, you can straighten the back leg a bit.

[ral]

@ctsmith, sound effects are the best thing in the video. Loved it!

 

Regarding flexing or straightening things, you need to be aware of some issues about action and reaction.

 

If you are bent forward at the waist and your hips are backwards, your front leg will be straight and your back bent for keeping you from falling. It is a consequence and not a primary position. It will be very difficult to bend your front knee and ankle with the same body position.

 

Now, the US$ 1,000,000 thing. Hips up and shoulders back (as Drew Ross points out so graphically in one scene on his DVD) is far easier to say than to do. When thinking about bending your front knee, think also about hips ups and chest up and shoulders back. If you do that, the ankle will bend by itself.

 

I guess it is easier to show it than to write about it...

 

 

 

[ctsmith]

Appreciate the comments. If no fires pop up in the next few hours I'll get the the lake and give it a go (only get to ski on average 3 sets a week). This time baby girl (8) will be in tow. If I can convince her to run the Ipad it will be interesting!

 

[crashman]

@ShaneH has anyone ever told you that you speak the truth! For the last two weeks I've been focusing nearly exclusively on my stance during the glide. Front ankle bend with tall stance= water breaking about 6 inches closer to the front of the ski and the next thing I know it's like I'm shot out of a cannon through the gate with about half the effort I'm used to.

[Than_Bogan]

@ctsmith: Don't stand in that position ... ever!

 

I'm trying to be funny (probably failing), but I have an actual point: You need to think about standing tall, with back leg straighter and front ankle bent ALL of the time. Get out of the water and adjust your stance to there. If things are going badly in the course, don't ski it wrong, take the time to get to the right position.

 

Standing in line? Get your stance.

 

Bored at work? Bend front ankle and straighten rear leg.

 

Making a fundamental balance point change like this requires a whole-scale effort to reprogram your mind and muscles. It's not easy. But in the end you'll not only run several more passes, you'll do so in a safer position!

 

GOOD LUCK!

[wilecoyote]

I couldn't have asked for a better topic, I'm just struggling to get to 3 ball@28mph so all this applies to me as well. Glad to have all the help. I'll be doing another lesson with my instructor in the very near future, and he keeps telling me to bend that ankle. Should be easy, but it's not.

[ctsmith]

Making a fundamental balance point change like this requires a whole-scale effort to reprogram your mind and muscles. It's not easy.

 

Truer words have not been said!

[ctsmith]

I'll be doing another lesson with my instructor in the very near future, and he keeps telling me to bend that ankle.

 

Roger that! If Kieth would have been in the boat in the video, on the gate glide he'd be shaking the rope and motioning to bend the ankle. If you start bad it doesn't get any better.

[ctsmith]

Yesterday was better. Most passes were successful with a little better form. Because of the setting sun and rookie videographer (my 8 year old), only one pass was adequately captured (maybe three, we'll see). I'll try to post it up tonight.

 

I did a slightly better job of getting the front ankle bent/knee forward. But in the apex of the offside turn I still completely straighten my front leg. Aint slow motion video cool! I can be told it 1000 times but it really sinks in when you see it.

 

 

[Hipsup]

The thought that works for me is trying to force my front foot as flat as possible. If your front foot is flat then your hips automatically move forward and you get the front ankle flex that Shane is talking about.

 

The other obvious thing that should help is making a conscious effort not to push on your back foot coming in to 1,3,5. Keeping your shoulders open and only turning with your lower body also really helps when trying to get your hips moving over your feet.

[PBD]

I have found that if I focus on feeling the toes on my front foot it helps keep me in a strong position. Focus on being able to wiggle those toes on right foot.

[Horton]

I take a slightly different approach to this. Front leg straight is not the best and some skiers move their center of mass forward by bending their front knee/ ankle but for me the focus needs to be one of the following: Back leg straight, back foot flat on ski, back knee behind front knee, or both legs straight.

 

If you think about it, any time your back leg is bent more than your front leg our center of mass is moving back.

 

Driving knees and ankles forward is perhaps technically the best but for most skiers it is the hardest. I know very few skiers who really drive their knees forward – Greg Badal, Andy Mapple, Marcus Brown, Bruce Butterfield, Terry Winter come to mind. You might note that these guys are all super shortline skiers.

 

For my personal skiing I spend a lot of time trying to be tall/straight legs. In reality my legs never get totally straight but by trying to do so I am more in the center of the ski.

 

May of us were told for years that we needed to bend our knees as much as possible at all times. I have no idea why. We were also told to be on our toes. This idea often leads to skiers lifting their back heel. This is a terrible idea except maybe at apex.

 

[thager]

@Horton You will never be tall and I think you may be bow legged like me! : )

[Horton]

Vertically challenged yes. Bow legged no

[GOODESkier]

Watching people ski like Dave Miller and Regina Jaquess, it is amazing how much their knees are "bent". Search their names with world record and you can see some of the most bent knees I have ever seen. Also reminded me to try and "lead" with the hips.

[Chef23]

@Horton thanks for posting your thoughts here. We have a ski partner that looks a lot like @ctsmith and we have been struggling to get him off his back foot and your advice is different than anything I have tried.

[ctsmith]

@Horton

for me the focus needs to be one of the following: Back leg straight, back foot flat on ski, back knee behind front knee, or both legs straight

 

Back leg straight seems to feel natural and get me in a better position that anything else. I'll give it a shot.

 

@Chef23

I've heard it a million times but until I watched slow motion video it didn't ring home. The light bulb finally came on. If your struggling partner hasn't seen himself on video lately its worth the effort. I am 100% focused on this now and I'll get it worked out!

[Chef23]

@ctsmith the guy we ski with has seen video. Frankly he looks a lot like you but left foot forward rather than right. I have been skiing since I was a kid so I have a hard time explaining how to get in good body position at times it got drilled into me when I was 8. I still think about and work at it but I am coming from a different base.

[ctsmith]

Not the best video, but here's a few passes from yesterday.

 

https://vimeo.com/68815296

 

[bogboy]

@ctsmith, nice skiing! I will practice the "front ankle down flex" tomorrow. Lot's of fun!

[ForrestGump]

Rear knee bent, hips way back, shoulders forward. Those are the things you've got to concentrate on.

[bogboy]

@ShaneH, uh, ya, I didn't just fall off the humus truck yesterday. Your kidding, right? Do you like your slalom rope attached to a wake board tower?

[Than_Bogan]

Thinking he meant "concentrate on fixing."

[ctsmith]

I think what bogboy is saying that all that stuff is heard ad nauseam. Finding what works for you is the quest. For me I think the back leg is the key to the hips and shoulders. On the few occasions that i get my weight on the front i notice a much more stacked position out of the turn.

[bogboy]

@Than-Bogan, thanks, some times there is only one way to skin a leaping leopard.

[ForrestGump]

I actually think the back leg is a byproduct of the hips back/shoulders forward/but squatted. Humor me and concentrate on pointing your chest at the tree tops for a set. See what happens. In doing that, it moves the hips forward, shoulders back and pushes the knee forward. Right now, your chest is pointing down to the water and all sorts of bad things happen as a result.

[bogboy]

Alrighty, thanks.

[gregy]

As soon as I saw the new video I thought the same thing as Shane. You get out to the glide at the gates in descent shape but as soon as you start to pull your hips drop back. Start in you glide flexing you ankle a little more and pushing you hips forward just a bit more. As you make your turn to the gates push your hips up to the handle and keep hips and handle glued together until your through the second wake. It's going to take you out of your comfort zone so it will feel weird at first, you wipe out even. You have to learn to get in that stacked position and trust it will get you across the wakes.

 

As long as your hips are back and trailer shoulders your weight going to be on your back foot. Try when you read this by standing hips back and shoulders forward like you are in the video. Your weight going be on your back foot. I think your worrying about the wrong thing right now.

[ctsmith]

Disclaimer: Everything I say is probably wrong. Right or wrong, this is how I feel on the ski and what must be overcome.

 

Greg, I appreciate your comments. No doubt I am dropping my hips back on side. What you are saying definitely applies to my on side. The problem with off side is that I can never get them up in the first place. Off side is not just a matter of doing it. It feels like I am being pulled head first out of the turn and no matter how determined or strong, I can't get my shoulders back and hips forward. This is why I am trying to focus on something else. I know that the position is the ultimate objective, but the "thought" of doing it isn't getting me there. Check out the 11-12 second mark in the most recent video.

[GOODESkier]

While I don't practice what I am about to preach......... Maybe a few open water runs, only working on that off side pull (I ski about 2 sets open water a year-first two of the year).

 

Glide out slowly. Get slightly free of the boat. Then lead with the hip and just work on getting that stacked position. I know that I am earliest and widest for the ball, when I am pulling white wash to white wash and allow the turn to happen before I get back on the handle and pull through the wakes. Just a thought. I too think it is a stacked issue. Once you get it, you'll likely be able to bump that speed up and feel real confident doing so.

[gregy]

@ctsmith got it. Your really doing well, we've all have been through what your going through, some still struggle with it like me, so don't feel bad. You'll start feeling more comfortable as you get more time on the ski. At some point it will really start clicking for you.

 

I've done exactly what @goodeskier is talking about and it really helps me coming into spring.

[ctsmith]

Thanks guys. I'll try some open water off side drills before my next set in the course. As mentioned before, I feel it.....I get it, on the "on" side. I've yet to feel the off side. When I do, watch out! :)

 

On a side note, how does my spray look? :) The first video posted was on a 68" Strada. The second video was on a 67" Coefficient X SL. I like the spray of the 67" Co X SL better. All kidding aside, I think I need to be on a 67" ski. I'm 5'8" and 185 with 175 in the crosshairs (started the summer at 205). I REALLY like the HO. I'd like to try a 67" Strada but unless its a lot different than the 68" I'll stay on the HO (not that the Strada is bad, but me and HO click).

[ForrestGump]

@ctsmith That is why I'm saying attempt to point your chest to the tree tops. You can't pull your hips up if your chest is pointed down. But if you point your chest up, the hips will naturally move up and the shoulders move back.

[crashman]

I've decided that my only hope in this hips up thing is to generate enough speed across the wake to get around the buoy and about half way back to the white wash before I take any load from the boat- when I do that magic seems to happen. Otherwise I get pulled forward before I'm decent position and the rest of my pass is shot. I definitely can't get my hips up by just trying to get my hips up except for in the glide and through the gate. As the gate goes so goes my pass.

[klindy]

Something that works with some people is to squeeze your butt cheeks together. Really hard to have your hips back if you have those muscles engaged.

[ctsmith]

ShaneH, I'm with you. I'll focus on the chest and see what happens.

 

Crashman, I feel your pain, except I've yet to feel the magic.

 

Klindy, I've tried that a while back. Maybe I should re-visit.

 

 

[GOODESkier]

What about a GOODE Nano ONE........ your off-side might become your 2nd on-side......

 

All kidding aside, if your looking for a new ski, you should try a NANO ONE and a D3 QUEST........

 

Plus, you can pull the "I need to ski more cause I have this really important decision to make about the future of my skiing." My wife and I like to joke that it is "testing" and we both ski more when we are testing!

[Than_Bogan]

@ShaneH @Chef23 I'm very intrigued by this idea of trying to face your chest toward the treetops. I goofed around with that briefly in my living room, and it seems to really correlate well with the ideal position. I'm gonna try that out myself a bit, and it's definitely worth a shot for our club member who is really struggling with body position.

[ctsmith]

Than, I did the same goofing around with the chest towards the treetops and its really does seem to stack me on land. Anxious to try it on the water. Hopefully this afternoon.

[ctsmith]

Goodeskier, send me a Nano One and let me try it out for a few months.

[SkiJay]

@ctsmith +1 for ShaneH's chest to the treetops. I came across this key last summer and it made a world of difference for me. I saw a girl skiing with an exaggerated chest up style and my first reaction was "wow, this girl has the sexiest skiing technique I've ever seen!" She proceeded to run into -38 like that. My analytical brain then took over from my Neanderthal brain and I resolved to try it. I'm pretty sure I didn't look nearly as good as she did doing it, but my stack, control, and results improved immediately.

 

For me, the key to making it work was making sure to move into what feels like an exaggerated chest up position while releasing the handle during the pre-turn. It makes you stand tall, it forces you to extend your rear leg moving your butt forward and putting you more over your front foot, it helps keep your shoulders open to the boat through the turn, and if you maintain it through the turn, it sets up a beautifully stacked cutting position. But it has to "feel" REALLY exaggerated at first to be anywhere near correct.