Another Baller Down - Arm Through Handle (ATH)

[MattP]

My hand got caught in the handle today falling around 5@32. Broke the skin but no other damage. I put some ice packs on within 5 min. It feels fine and no bruising yet. The way it got caught I think a handle guard would have let it go between the guard and the handle and not come back out. That's what scares me about having the guard.

[mwetskier]

@AB -who is the southern ohio guy who got hurt?

[A_B]

I don't know him that well, so not sure if he would mind people knowing or not. He was supposed to come up next weekend and ski with me, but sent me an email telling me he was done for the season. But I think it is important to make Ballers aware that this happens.

 

Years ago after I saw a video of a college girl putting her head into the bridle, I played around with some screening and stuff, and they were all too flimsy. TW came out with the AG so I bought one. It doesn't fit the USG handles so I took a shot at one today. I have to find the optimum gap between the handle and the guard.

 

[Ed_Johnson]

About 3 years a go I posted an article "My Handle Guard Saved My Life." It was how I never really thought it would happen to me, but one day at 38 it did, and really fast...My face went right into the V of the handle, and the knob on the end of the handle gave me one hell of a black eye...There is no doubt in my mind, that if I would not have had the Guard, it could have been fatal.

 

I absolutely would not ski without one.

[A_B]

Ed, I heard that story from you before, so do not know why it took me this long to rectify the situation. What is the gap from handle on your guard?

[ral]

It is unlikely to happen at 15-22 off, and not that likely at 28 off , the boat would tend to take the handle out of the way.

[mwetskier]

that college girl who put her head thru the handle was jumping so the rope she was on was longer even then 15 off. i dont think rope length has anything to do with whether or not that type of an accident happens.

[Alberto Soares]

One of my best friends, had a hand through handle accident at 35off in 2012 (no hand guard). He had to put a plate in his arm. When he got back skiing he decided to use a FM hand guard, last month his hand went through it again and got stuck on it, he had to do a hand surgery, probably will only ski again in 3/4 months.

[ski6jones]

@ral, happened to me at 28 off about 10 years ago. Detached bicep tendon and lots of soft tissue damage. Season ending.

[ral]

@ski6jones, not that likely, but possible @ 28...

 

Alberto, who was it?

[Alberto Soares]

@Ral - Rodrigo Botelho AKA the Rock Man...

[Brian_M]

@Texas6 & @Onside135 Is this the thread? ballofspray.com/forum#/discussion/comment/78341

[ral]

Alberto, the first time Rodrigo did it training for the LAST in Miami?

[Texas6]

@Brian M. - that's it

[A_B]

@Ral, it is Bruce55.

His shoulder sounds pretty messed up and will be looking for surgeon capable of repairing it.

He said he will come back with a handle guard.

[Stevie Boy]

@Bruce55 wishing you a speedy recovery, mend well.

[klindy]

Heel quickly and better than new @Bruce55.

[Texas6]

Thanks for sharing that story Bruce and helping promote making the sport safer

[aussiemc]

Hi Bruce, Shane From Australia here. Sorry to here about your injury, hope you heal quickly.

 

I was having a conversation at out lake on Saturday about ordering handle guards. Where is the best place to get them from? There is 6 members of our club that all use the same Masterline handle so a bulk order will be placed this week.

[Roger]

" i remember throwing the handle but somehow the handle "found" me and my left arm."

Exactly why I never let go of the handle until the boat takes it. At 35 and in, you're moving faster than the boat, so throwing or dropping the handle means you can easily ski past it or into it. Whenever I see someone throw the handle, I cringe.

[cwillygood]

vibes! i had an FM handle guard and it eventually feel off, all the zip ties broke but i felt very safe! i use ducktape now but hopefully i will get another fm guard with a new handle next season

[lpskier]

A lot of the guards will keep your head out of the bridle (which in reality is the most important), but probably only TW's will actually keep your arm out. Most of duct tape jobs are probably useless for protecting the arm. To give credit where it is due, TW thought up the idea and claims (i.e. I personally don't know whether he does or doesn't) to hold the patent. Whoever commented above that the best insurance is holding on to the handle for as long as you can gave very good advice, in my opinion.

 

I am not a fan of zip ties. They have the potential to cut your skin. I use narrow gauge bungy cord, start at the top on one side of the guard, loop around the bridle and through the hole on the guard, and so on to the bottom of the V. At the bottom, use a fid to pull the bungy through the ski line from one side to the other (you can probably do it with no fid). This will hold the guard at the bottom of the V and prevent it from slipping up toward the handle. Then loop around and through the holes on the guard from the bottom to the top on the other side of the bridle. Then go back to the starting point and snug up the bungy cord nice and tight. Tie the bungy off at the top on the second side and you are done. I use a figure eight knot that will not pull through the top hole on my guard. If laced properly, the connection will last as long as your handle. I strung my handle at the beginning of last year and it still is good as new.

 

My guard is neither a FM or TW, but I suspect my technique will work with either.

[Andre]

Zip ties are fines,just cut them real close with a nailclipper.No cutting edge,

I made my own arm guard and don t use handles that dont have one.

 

Bruce

Sorry for your injury.Hope you come back as good as new!

Good luck!

[jedgell]

If you have an Arm Guard from TW installed correctly you can't get your hands in beyond your wrists if youre wearing gloves. At least I can't, I tried today. That's the benefit of the stiffer plastic in the AG. At our tournament this past weekend, there were only a few handles with guards, mostly kids' handles.

 

@bruce55 - hope you have a speedy recovery. I know several guys that have come back from similar injuries.

[RLW]

@bruce55 - Sorry to hear about your injury. You referenced Dr. Andrews and your desire to see him. I did a sports medicine and shoulder fellowship with him about 10 yrs. ago. You should be able to call his office for an appointment. If he is too busy, you should try to get an appointment with either Dr. Lyle Cain or Dr. Jeff Dugas, both of whom are shoulder specialists and partners with Dr. Andrews. I would let any of them take care of me or my family. Good luck with your recovery.

[RLW]

For the record, I had a similar injury with my hand through the handle a few years ago. I was very lucky and recovered after about 6 weeks. I always use a handle guard now.

[Brady]

@Bruce55 Here is to a speedy recovery and a functioning shoulder. I don't mind breaks, because, as the picture suggests, they are easily fixed with pins and screws. But the tendon and cartilage and joint damage is much more severe. It is unfortunate it happened to you, but I know that thru this, better days will come for you! Hang in there my friend!!

[mwetskier]

i just googled ski handle safety device patent and this was the first link that came up

http://www.google.com.mx/patents/US7959481

[gregy]

@mwetskier that's Thomas Wayne's patent. TW arm guard.

[mwetskier]

@gregy -oh i see that now when i scrolled down the page its got the whole patent and all the history of it.

[SkiJay]

@AB the gap recommended by TW is 2¼" to 2½" between the guard and the handle. That seemed a bit tight to me when I first installed one, but it was a non issue within two sets, even with the Cincher type gloves I was using at the time.

[DW]

A zip tie gun will trim the zip ties so they don't have the sharp edges.

FYI: I made a guard using some netting type material so it is very flexible, a cord with a nylon cover at the handle end adds just enough stiffness to make it all work (for me). For the non tinkerers, the Arm Guard appears to be an excellent device.

[Skoot1123]

@bruce55 - hope you have a speedy recovery!

 

Now I'm going to have to invest in one. Had one injury not related to skiing already - which didn't affect my ski season, but I knew that if it had been in ski season I would be majorly bummed. Will be looking at some items in the next couple days to make it work.

[BillBarton]

{from @bruce55 "i will tell u all.....I was NOT out of control. I am not a wild "hair on fire skier", so that opinion about this type of injury happening to only those type of skiers is not true." }

 

I was driving the boat. What he just said couldn't be more true. Every pass that day was just like every other day; smooth, controlled, aggressive as you have to be if you ever hope to put the purple line on the pylon. The feel and sound of the fall, from the driver's seat, was completely benign and gave me no reason to mess up the lake by hustling back. That is until I saw the angle of his hand relative to his arm. I intend to ski with Bruce for a very long time so I'm already modding my handle before I get the lecture from him in person :))

[skinut]

Here is TW's email for the ArmGuard. twcues@gci.net I ordered my second one from him last year so as of then he was still making them. I honestly don't understand why people don't use handle guards.

[oldjeep]

@skinut - as to why people don't use them. Until a couple days ago I had never heard of one, not to mention never heard of or imagined that people were getting their heads and arms stuck in handles. What surprises me is that if this is such a frequent occurrence, why don't the manufacturers include a guard or why have I never seen one in a shop or catalog? It appears that the entire commercial market right now is one mfg plus a guy with an email address and no website.

[mwetskier]

from what i am hearing a lot of pretty good skiers have had this type of accident or injury even some famous ones. my brother made me put a guard on my handle years ago and i honestly cant even tell its there when im skiing.

[oldjeep]

Don't get me wrong, I'm going to do something now that I know this is a possibility - even as bad as my skiing is. I've got one of those radar extended end handles, which has a really big opening in it.

[DW]

@oldjeep: actually a very infrequent occurrence. The problem is the severity of a single incident.

[Onside135]

Since I've read this thread, I began thinking that I've not noticed any pro skiers using these guards. I'm curious...@mwetskier, who are the famous skiers who you've heard are using these? Not doubting...just have not noticed them myself...

[mwetskier]

@onside135 -dont know what famous skiers use handle guards or whatever just said i heard of some famous ones who had head or arm through handle accidents. patrice martin broke his arm and retired chet raily got his head in the handle nicole arthers husband ruined his arm those are a few of them. my brother knows more about it then i do.

[SkiJay]

Pros often set bad examples. Decades ago, no professional hockey player would wear a helmet until they became mandatory, and professional race car drivers fought against seat belt rules for years.

 

Ego often trumps safety. Witness all the helmetless motorcycle riders in Florida despite high head injury rates.

 

Gordon Rathbun didn't use a handle guard while he was a pro, but he does now. Apparently having a dear friend die in his arms made the debate pretty much moot for him. That incident was sure enough to convince me.

 

The reason manufacturers don't install them is two fold. I know this because I've asked them. First, most skiers either don't know about or don't want a handle guard (shame on us). Second, if a manufacturer only puts guards on some handles, when a skier gets injured or killed with one of the manufacturer's handles that didn't come with a guard, guess who gets sued out of business because they've admitted they know about this danger by selling some handles with guards (shame on the legal system).

 

There are no guarantees with safety. Hockey players still get concussions. Ocassionally a seat belt will be the actual cause of death, and no arm guard can offer perfect protection either. But helmets, seat belts and arm guards are minor inconveniences that stack the odds significantly more in our favor. It's as simple as that.

[A_B]

If you saw the video of the college girl who landed a minor jump and basically went out the front and stuck her face into the bridle and was pulled through the water at the throat, you might see how such a simple fall could have turned deadly in the blink of your eye.

 

Some on the spot boat driving and crack medical crews saved her life.

[sunperch]

@AB, no doubt that the excellent driving by John Shull from Hartville, MO saved her life.

[jimbrake]

Apologies in advance to any of you who have read my story of my ATH fall because I'm going to repeat it for the many on here who probably have not. It's not the worst of the ATH falls by a long shot as I'm still here, but it caused me to miss effectively all of that season. The notable thing about it was is that it was one of those "oh, I'll just hold onto the handle until the boat takes it from me" kind of falls only it didn't work out so well like everyone thinks it will.

 

I had been to Gordon's in Acapulco in late April and shortly after I got home came the news of Brett Yager's accident as he was there the week following me. Holy crap. After the initial shock of that news I'm thinking I've got to put some sort of cover on my and my kids' handle. I covered theirs immediately, but just hadn't gotten around to doing mine, yet.

 

So, I'm at our lake skiing in a pretty strong head tail and was running a 35 upwind. I came off 5 hard and was going to be early enough to 6, but the head wind got me and I could tell I was either going to hit the ball with my ski or feet. To try and avoid a launch I just laid out on the water like a 1/4 buoy slide and was literally thinking "just hang on to the handle until the boat pulls it out of my hand". Seemed simple enough - no big deal. Except that my hand and handle hit the water (maybe a white cap/wind chop?) and even though I was sliding on my side by this point my hand kind of "stuck" hard. What happened next took about 0.0017 seconds from perfectly fine to done for the season. The water forced my hand to kind of curl toward my forearm and knocked the handle out of my grip. My arm went straight through the bridle and then the handle was popped back off my arm like "wham". Hit your desk with your hand. That fast. I thought "broken arm" because that's what it felt like. Now I'm standing on the bottom of the lake with my arm under water and thinking "here goes - have to look at it" and then lifted my arm out of the water. It looked sort of normal except for a weird shape at my elbow. I decided to try and straighten it and as soon as I did this it went "pop" and I realized my arm had been dislocated at the elbow and it had just popped back into place. Really didn't hurt that much and felt more like relief at that point. Problem was that I stretched my elbow ligaments so bad that my right arm had quite a bit of slack in the elbow. Like couldn't do anything with that arm type of slack.

 

I was actually lucky in that muscle damage was really limited and no bones were snapped. Got all appropriate medical/PT help and was mostly good to go the following Spring. That elbow is still a bit loose. I've lost some pop on my fastball and my curve and slider don't snap like they used to, but I can still ski.

 

Last note - I highly doubt that an arm guard/cover is going to hold you in and cause you worse injury than if the guard wasn't there in the event your arm went through the gap. The forces are far too great for even a rigid plastic cover to hold you in.

[A_B]

My intent of this thread was to just make folks aware that this is still happening and we should all make our personal choice to cover it or not. It is sort of like smoking or being overweight, or wearing a helmet while riding a bike or motorcycle. We all make choices, some are more difficult than others to implement ( I am trying to shed this insulation and thank God when I rode a motorcycle without a helmet, which was always, never had an incident. A good friend was wearing a full face shield racing helmet when a Dodge Ram turned left in fromt of him while he was going 50 mph. Broken hips, legs, wrist, etc., and one destroyed face shield. Dr said it would have killed him or made him unrecognizable without shield.

 

Awareness of information is critical to decision making. Some have a higher level of risk that they feel comfortable with, and that's what makes this country great. Choice.

[jimbrake]

Yeah, I don't think handle guards should be mandatory either. I just think some of the arguments against using them are pretty lame. I used to jump without a helmet when I was getting started and I still snow ski without one unless racing. That too is pretty lame. Freedom, man. I want to be free to ski with an automatic weapon, too, if I so choose.

[Skoot1123]

@bruce55 - great great great attitude! It is contagious! Wishing a speedy recovery. The PT is the key!!

[Marco]

@Buce55 - Good luck tomorow. I know what you are going through. 2 years ago I completely dislocated my shoulder in a freak (non handle related) skiing crash. Completly tore my labrum, biceps tendon, and shredded my rotator cuff. My humorus was stuck sticking out 90 deg at about armpit height.

 

I was in surgery for 6 hours, and rehabed HARD for 9 months, 1-1/2 hours every morning and every evening. Now my repaired shoulder feels much better than my old one.

 

A couple of tips: 1-Definately do the nerve block before the surgery. you'll be glad you did.

2- Don't do anything with your shoulder until your doc or PT says it is OK. It

is very easy to re-tear everything that got repaired in the surgery.

 

Good luck tomorrow, and hang in there. Every day will be better than the last!

[RLW]

@bruce55. As a shoulder specialist, I second marco's comments. He's spot on. Don't try to advance beyond your surgeon's recommendations. The strength of the repaired tissues comes from your body's healing. The surgery just places things in the right spot, but soft tissue healing to bone generally requires 3-4 months. Total healing time may be longer. If you stress the repair before healing, it can fail. Don't go too slow either or the shoulder can get stiff. You need just the right balance. Best of luck!