What time of binding system were you using when you were injured.

[bfreeski]

My recent injury, followed by some deep thought has led me to this poll. I have heard about a number of Achilles, or Lis-Franc (midfoot) type injuries which seem to occur in OTF type type falls. The ankle fractures seem to come from more rotational falls, or single-foot-release crashes, and seem to be most common in single binding release type falls which include more of a cartwheel motion than a the anterior/posterior motion of a true OTF. If you are interested please take the poll and feel free to add a description of your fall and subsequent injuries. I know these posts have been done before, but more of us seem to get injured every week, so anything else that can be gleaned for our fellow ballers' mishaps might be helpful.

[Lahey]

Jumping... Shattered the ankle while a little too late on double wraps?

[Rez]

Managed to kick the ski into the back of my head when having a OTF into the first wake, unusual thing to happen I'm sure! Left me with a little cut and a head ache

[ral]

Post tibial tendon injury, took 4+ months and 2 cortisone shots to recover. Switched to front Reflex after that and never looked back.

[A_B]

Too much dual loc with hardshells. Released, but tore the interior side of my ankle up enough to end my season weeks before Regionals, the ONE year that I was planning to go to the big show and have a shot at running deep 38. Best season of my life. Never have been at that level again.. Dr said he only saw that kind of damage in a car accident.

[Roger]

Double rubber O'brien (the ones that lace up the back, can't remember the name). Stall on offside turn, half out of the rear binding; torn calf muscle.

 

Double rubber Wileys. Got in front of the ski coming out of onside turn and went out the front; broken middle toe (spiral fracture).

 

Moved to Radar RS-1 when they came out and then to Stradas, no injuries so far.

[Patrick]

Broken ankle on a mid level lace up binding & rtp. Was new to anything but cottage skiing on adjustable bindings. In retrospect I probably had the bungee too tight but didn't know any better at the time. Strada's at least come with a card that says the tension shouldn't be above 35 lbs (but who has a tension gauge?) most others don't come with anything. Maybe it's common sense to most of us now to run those loose, but it's not to people new to skiing that think it should be on there pretty tight.

 

Was on strada's for a while after that. No major injuries but had a number of partial releases even with them loose. One really tweaked the ankle. It was short of a sprain so not that bad, but decided to to stop gambling on them and just bit the bullet and moved to reflex. Pretty happy so far but know it's not perfect either.

[MattP]

@roger more than likely the Contact binding.

[Horton]

The problem with this poll is that is ignores how the skier used the binding they were hurt in. What settings and or how tight?

 

The results so far show that “double boots mounted directly to the ski” is the most dangerous. I would say that is not the most dangerous but the most common.

 

How about all the skiers who have not been hurt?

[ral]

Skiers that have not been hurt? Are you serious???

[boarditup]

Been skiing for over 40 years - separated rib - not broken - only injury so far. Not even a sprained ankle. Granted, I am still skiing at novice levels, but enjoying every set behind the boat.

[MattP]

Also does not take into account the level of skier. If they were on their opener or hardest pass. Was the skier on their 1st 2nd or 3rd set so were they fatigued. What were the conditions high wind or glass calm. Lots and lots of variables.

[ral]

Actually, my worst injury was not binding related either... But I think that, due to the speed and dynamics of this sport, not having injuries is the exception and not the rule.

[Than_Bogan]

There's also the severity of the injury to consider. I have been very fortunate (knock on wood!!) to have avoided severe fall injuries so far, but I did twist my angle pretty good last August and lost some ski time.

 

Still, I'd hate to equate that with folks who shredded Achilles or pulled muscles off the bone, both of which happened to MA tournament skiers in 2012.

 

AND, I think the binding system I was using (double T-Factors) proved itself to WORK because it could have been a LOT worse. Sometimes, getting injured is a relative win for the binding system, because a less safe setup could have resulted in much worse injury.

 

So those are even more factors that are hard to control for when considering the results of a poll like this!

 

Personally, if safety of binding system trumped everything else, I'd use a Fogman style pin release with a Gatormod. That gives you lots of degrees of freedom for a release, and the 'mod saves you in one of the most critical cases where that binding system can't. Unfortunately, I don't ski very well in hard shells, even after giving them an entire season. And safety does NOT trump all: Easiest way to never get hurt while skiing is to never ski. So I aim for a balance of results and safety that is acceptable to me.

[gator1]

You guys need to cut poor old bfreeski some slack. He's only in the 5th stage of mourning:

 

1) Shock:MOFO!!!!!This hurts like a bastard. Owww

2) Discovery:"Sumbitch doc, you mean this is gonna take MONTHS to heal??!!" followed by discovery from ballers: "Its gonna take YEARS to get back close to normal??!!!"

3) Fury: "godammit, I followed the instructions on using these TO THE EFFING LETTER, AND I'M LAID UP FOR TWO YEARS?????"

4) Confusion: "you mean there is no good answer? And people get hurt like this all the time??"

5) Problem solving: I'm gonna get some data on this and fix it.

 

There's 3 more stages, then he can loop back to #5 with a better poll.......

 

[skihard]

I hurt my left ankle. I am a LFF skier and have hurt the same ankle in the past. (6 years ago) Up until this latest injury which was suffered in an onside OTF crash I used to pull the strings on my bindings TIGHT. After some chatting with a pro rider I am going to re look at how I tighten my bindings. I also think I am going to look into a binding change.

I haven't skied for over 3 weeks and I hope to at least get back on my ski this weekend when I get home from WV. My ankle will be heavily taped I know that as I learned how to do that 6 years ago as well so I could get back skiing!

 

The S*IT we do to keep enjoying the fun we have! :)

[jcamp]

None (knock on a large piece of wood). Just wanted to be able to see the poll results.

[bfreeski]

A simple poll will never be able capture all the data and nuances, I get that. Getting into a true statistical analysis is well beyond my intent......people break an ankle every day just stepping into a hole, they don't even need a massive OTF. Mainly I was interested in a broad strokes look at what injuries were being seen and if there was anything that could be gleaned relative to the types of injuries occurring with different binding types, which may well be beyond the capability of a simple poll as well.

[Waternut]

Double Connelly Sidewinder bindings last year. They only felt secure when they were tight and an OTF did something to my IT band when I didn't release. Thankfully was only skiing 30mph but still bugs me. My biggest problem was not being able to feel the difference between too tight and secure. When I went to Reflex, I no longer had tightness issues, and have always released when I felt I should allowing me to keep skiing immediately. Crank it down as tight as you want and you still come out.

 

I fully admit the bindings were used incorrectly when I had my injury but if I had to continue using a binding that requires proper feel to properly release, I'd quit skiing.

[Zman]

Double high wraps, torn front foot Achilles. Won't get into brand, but just note that I had safely used the same model boots for over 10 years, but had just installed new boots, same make, model and size. But, new front boot felt like a clamp on my heel - no give. Third pass, first set - I stuffed the tip some coming out of three ball (weak side) and pop!

Changed to double Stradas - all good so far.

[mlange]

Wiping out my response now that I've seen @Horton's.

[Horton]

@mlange don't want to stop you from voicing opinion. I just try to be voice of reason

[mlange]

No worries. I was actually typing up the same thing you did and then went back and read the whole thread and saw your post.

[Drago]

Very tight connelly drafts. Didn't come out of either. Always thought 2 feet in was safest, like a snowboarder. Turns out I had an injury just like a snowboarder:(. crushed front foot, after score of 1. no one thought I was hurt, no twisting, powdered bones and ligaments and tendons. Both feet in may be still the "safest "

[RLW]

Double boots on single plate with mechanical release set too tight - broke both ankles

[Rico226]

2nd pass (32 off) beginning of season, bad gate, late one, thinking be patient out of one, got into a kodak moment lean, eyes on the back of the boat through the wakes, changed edges & went oh sheet, hit the 2 ball, back leg came out cuz I run the binding loose, front foot locked in gorilla tight, broke the front left ankle, & had tendon sublux, way too much fun for one summer followed, by surgery, crutches & waking boot, only positive is you find out just how tough you are mentally, 4 months of captivity does have me wanting to wait till next year to start back to ensure the ankle is at full strength & I am back at gator1's 5th stage of mourning !

[hammerski]

Trying out a new ski... Tail of ski lifted off the second wake and crossed up, when it touched down, the double rubber boots didn't release, breaking my tibia, tearing my achilles and lateral tendon. Two surgerys later, I can finally walk without a limp, thanks to Dr. Scott Woll, rebound orthopedics in Portland. That guy's amazing! Running power shells now, I've taken a couple goofy falls, rope break etc, ski came right off. I'm a believer. NOTE! After talking to Suyderhoud, he said that's why he always puts Vaseline in the heel on rubber boots, to make sure you come out. If I'd done that on my rubber boots, I would have been ok.

[hammerski]

Ps right after that my neighbor went out the front, reflex too tight, snapped his Achilles. So what's the deal, I've been skiing for 30+ years, I don't remember crazy accidents like these!

[bfreeski]

@Than_Bogan, I certainly agree with what you said, their does have to be a balance between safety and comfort/rideability. I have certainly skied a lot of sets on various bindings, falling more than occasionally, and often spectacularly......and until last week without injury. My curiosity and the point of the poll, as @Gator1 understands, is to attempt to gather information about other possibilities, other peoples' experiences, and see if there is something I can try or look at that makes sense to me. I may change my set-up, I may not, I am just trying to evaluate the options. I would love to run an in depth poll and/or study controlling for every possible variable.......but I am not sure that is a realistic goal. The one thing that does seem apparent is that you can get hurt on any binding system you can currently buy. The ideal binding system would be comfortable, provide you the perfect amount of control, and always release when you wanted it to yet never release when you were riding the ragged edge, deep at a ball, etc.,and it would do this regardless of skill, experience, ability, or operator mis/use. If only I could invent that!

[Skihack]

I think Zero Off and the more powerful engines coupled with the boats being bigger, thus not moving due to skier load, is a contributing factor to alot of injuries. If you don't have your technique together when you go against the ZO, be prepared for the pain dished out. I think alot of folks need to slow the speed down, get some coaching and really get their techniques down pat before they start pushing with the shorter lines. Get to where you ski in control and you will progress much faster and hopefully without injuries.

[RichardDoane]

I've been hurt in Wiley's, Animals, Powershells, Fogmans, Approaches, Phantoms, and RS1's/Stradas, it all boils down to operator error, with laces too tight, or tensioner set too high, and/or hitting an air filled buoy, but if you're gonna ski and shorten the line, it can and will happen eventually

[Marco]

Front reflex, rubber rear. Running hot and late into 2 @ 38, hit the buoy and blew out my front achilles when the ski came down after becoming airborne. I think no conventional binding would have helped as the force was straight down through the ski. I wish I was using the Gatormod, as that is the only thing that could have prevented the damage if it works as advertised.

 

Note to self: If you are running hot and late, especially in practice, stand up and live to fight another day!

[andjules]

Tight, stiff, old-school KD rubber bindings on my old KD7000, free skiing in October (colder = stiffer bindings), fairly gentle OTF in a turn... torn achilles.

 

Wasn't long after I switched to my beloved RS-1s, which are awesome and feel very safe.

[BRY]

Need an all of the above option. I've been lucky, no laid up injuries but some decent sprains over the years on the various types. Was on PS w/velcro for last couple years and worked surprisingly well. No pre-releases and came off fine in OTF or big skip-outs. Did sprain my ankle pretty good at last years regionals with a back-side-of-ball stuffed tip where I fell "through" the front of the ski, no forward over-the-front movement so front heel couldn't come up. Back on Reflex recently and took similar fall a week ago, that fall seems to happen every couple years but not often, Reflex released no issue.

IMHO I believe the Reflex with RTP or "type R" rear is the safest, most consistent release system to date. Seems the Gator1 may be on to something and adding that to the Reflex better yet.

 

Like all speed sports it is inherently dangerous. Best way to be safe is to understand, properly adjust and maintain your chosen system.

[jipster43]

I broke my ankle on the third pass of the season. I was on RS-1's that were overly tight on the rear boot. I knew it before I started skiing, but I was too anxious to ski to do anything about it. I've since gone to new Stradas that feel way better and even safer than the RS-1's, but @Gator1 has convinced me to go back to my Fogman's with a Gatormod. Once you've broken your ankle, safety starts to trump money spent and/or convenience. I'm really attached to my Stradas though.

[Golfguy]

I know this has probably been discussed before, but I am curious to hear about any injuries, whether to the lower extremities or elsewhere, when both feet stayed in the bindings. It seems like the most dangerous situation is when only one foot releases?

[Waternut]

Guy I ski with blew the tail of his ski about 3 months ago with double animals. Both feet stayed in and he's still not able to ski because he messed up his ankles so bad. He didn't break anything but it was probably a month or more at the age of 19 before he was really walking without limping. My injury was both feet in as well but I went out the front.

[RLW]

@Golfguy. When I broke both ankles, both stayed in the bindings.

[footloose42]

@MattP I guess we just have to do a controlled test. We'll put your binding on the tightest setting and ski you until you hurt yourself.

[MattP]

@footloose42 no.

[Golfguy]

Interesting, thanks for the input. I believe in the scientific method, but that experiment is too much for me.

[Smokey56]

Double rubber rear-lace-up boots laced up too tight. Leaned too hard against the rope while crossing the wake and went down on my shoulder. Snapped the bottom of the tibia and sprained everything, especially the posterior tibiate tendon. Both feet stayed in. Screwed the bone back together, and at month 6 the tendon is starting to heal. Shopping for new bindings now.

[skidawg]

I would like to add....I had way to much dual lock on my set up, could barely pry my plate off the ski when I checked it. You can teach an old dog new tricks!

[Chef23]

I haven't been hurt but I wanted to see the results. I do follow @OB's mantra at least in practice though I tend to give it up if I think I am going to get pounded. I can't really afford to be hurt.

[DavidP]

A well known legend of our sport told me a moto X mantra, "You've got to know when to let go of the handle bars".

 

I am fortunate not to have had any leg/ankle injuries - Double rubber (15-35off); double Stradas (22-38off) two seasons; and now on Reflex with R style. My new philosophy on bindings - the tightness of fit should not impact the ability to release.

[OKSkier]

I would love to have those details soon since I'm looking for a new binding system. On the Exo's for two years. wondering if HO is coming up with a new Exo type system?

[OKSkier]

thanks for the info

[jipster43]

@OB did you ever give the GatorMod a go?

[OKSkier]

dont know much about Gator Mods. Thinking about Apex boots next time. Exos are crazy heavy.

 

[ThePantsManCan]

I damaged my front left ankle in an OTF in 2009 with double animals. Tweaked the same ankle again the next season with double Phantom Bindings. Moved immediately to HO EXO's that very month. I have not had any other injuries since. That being said, I have bent three rail bars on the original setup (when HO had a problem with that/long since fixed) I have changed boot liners, ripped off the overlays, changed laces to ratchet straps, replaced original ratchets, and removed the cuff on the right rear boot.

 

After removing the rear cuff I decided there was no way I would stay in the rear boot. So I had to add an ankle strap from a snowboard binding to keep my heel from lifting. Worked a little better for my hips as well. Well, one day I was chasing my 5 year old down to the cabin, stepped wrong on a crack or stick or something. Rolled my right ankle something fierce.

I did try to ski that day anyway. I shoehorned my foot into the rear EXO boot and got up to ski. As I rolled into the gate I got the ski sucked behind, where the wake met the tip of my ski. I took a flipping over the front where my rear foot slid right out of the boot!!!!!! NOOOOOO!!!

Fortunately, nothing happened. I came to a rest in the water and felt totally freaked out. My foot came out because my ankle was getting swollen from my unrelated mishap earlier that day. I couldn't strap my foot in as tight and was having too much pain.

 

What am I trying to say? Don't ski hurt, and I will NEVER let my rear foot come out again. It was not the fault of the EXO System when I slipped out of the rear boot. But there was then NO WAY for the rear release mechanism to work with just the front foot in. With a rear cuff this would not have happened, but I no longer like having such a rigid rear boot. I HAVE ENJOYED GREAT CUSTOMER SERVICE FROM HO, AND I HAVE STILL NOT BEEN INJURED WITH THE EXO BOOTS. But from a performance standpoint, I'd like to shave off a bunch of that weight. I feel its time to make a move to Reflex front with R-Style rear.