BIG DAWG DRUG TESTS

[David Miller]

HERE IS COPY OF MY DRUG TEST THAT WAS DONE AT THE BIG DAWG FINALS. AS YOU CAN SEE IT IS NEGATIVE AND I CAN SKI 5 SETS BEFORE A BIG DAWG WITH OUT TAKING DRUGS!!!!

 

 

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3650 Westwrnd Blvd., Saflra Fosa, {]A 95403

Phoie 707 577 795S , 880'255 2153

rax /07-577 0365

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Laboralory Directorc: Mark J. DeMm, M.D.; Richard R. Wilber, l\,4.D.

CLIA License # 05D0707586

Final Result Summary

i None Detected; none of the analytes tested were detected.

ldentification: DAVID M ILLER

DOB:

Sex:

Collected by: SCOTT SMITH

Collected: O811412014

Received: 0811812014 3:56 PM

Reported: 0812012014 3:07 PM

Drug

Anabolic Steroids and Agents

1-Androstendiol, 1 -Androstendione or

1 -Testosterone metabol ite (s)

4-Hydroxytestosterone, Formestane &lor

metabolite(s)

6a-Methylandrostend ione metabolite

Androstendiol, Androstendione or

Testosterone (T/E Ratio)

Bolasterone metabolite

Boldenone metabolite(s)

Calusterone metabolite(s)

Clenbuterol (anabolic agent)

Clostebol metabolite(s)

Danazol metabolite(s)

Dehydrochlormethyltestosterone

metabolite(s)

Desoxymethyltestosterone metabolite(s)

Drostanolone &/or metabolites

Epitestosterone (masking agent)

Estra-4,9-dien-3, 1 7-dione metabolite(s)

Fluoxymesterone metabolite(s)

Formebolone metabolite(s)

Furazabol metabolite

Halodrol metabolite

Mestanolone metabolite

Mesterolone metabolite(s)

Methandriol metabolite(s)

Methandrostenolone metabolite(s)

Methasterone &/or metabolite

Methenolone &/or metabolite(s)

Methyl-1 {estosterone &/or metabolite(s)

Methyltestosterone metabolite(s)

Mibolerone metatabolite

Nandrolone, 1 9-Norandrostenedione or

1 9-Norandrost metabolite(s)

Norclostebol metabolite(s)

Norethandrolone metabolite(s)

Oxabolone &/or metabolite(s)

Page 1 of 2

Printed 8l2Ol2O14 3:46 PM

Account#: 111438

Requisition #: 900548

Accession#: 140818-12288

Specimen Type: Urine

Drug Tests

Result

Not detected

Not detected

Not detected

Not detected

Not detected

Not detected

Not detected

Not detecied

Not detected

Not detected

Not detected

Not detected

Not detected

Not detected

Not detected

Not detected

Not detected

Not detected

Not detected

Not detected

Not detected

Not detected

Not detected

Not detected

Not detected

Not detected

Not detected

Not detected

Not detected

Not detected

Not detected

Not detected

Clientl Austin Mobile Testing Services

402W. Palm Valley Blvd.

Ste. H

Round Rock, TX 78664

Phone: (512)507-5983

Fax: (877)301-0786

Tests Ordered

r 5550 - Anabolic Steroids and

Agents

Screen

Method Cutoff

Confirmation

Method Cutoff

GC/MS 2 ng/ml

GC/MS 2 ng/ml

GC/MS 2 ng/ml

GC/MS 6 TiE Ratio

GCiMS 2 ngiml

GC/MS 2 ng/ml

GC/MS 2 ng/ml

GC/MS l ngiml

GC/MS 2nglmL

GCIMS ZnglmL

GC/MS 2nglmL

GCIMS 2 ng/mL

GC/MS 2nglmL

GCIMS 200 ng/mL

GC/MS 2nglmL

GC/MS 2 ng/mL

GC/MS 2 ng/ml

GCiMS 2 nglmL

GC/MS 2 ng/mL

GC/MS 2 ng/ml

GC/MS 2 ng/mL

GC/MS 2nglmL

GCIMS 2nglmL

GCIMS 2nglmL

GCIMS 2 ng/mL

GC/MS 2 ng/ml

GC/MS 2nglml

GC/MS 2nglmL

GCIMS 2nglmL

GCiMS 2 ng/mL

GC/MS 2nglmL

GC/MS 2nglmL

DAVID MILLER

140818-12288 5T60

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REDWOOD

TOX ICO LOGY

TABORATORY"

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1650 WesMind Blvd, Santa e0sa, CA 95403

Pione 70,,.577 7959 ,4 800'255-2159

Far i07.577-0365

wm! redwoodtoxiaology com

Laboratory Directo6: Mark J. DeMeo, M.D.; Richard R. \Mlber, M.D.

CLIA License # 05D0707588

Oxandrolone &/or metabolite

Oxymesterone

Oxymetholone metabolite(s)

Probenecid (masking agent)

Prostanozol metabolite(s)

Stanozolol metabolite(s)

Stenbolone &/or metabolite(s)

Testolactone (anti-estrogen) metabolite

Trenbolone metabolite

Method lndex

EA - Enzyme Assay

EIA - Enzyme-lmmunoassay

ELISA - Enzyme-Linked lmmunosorbent Assay

RIA - Radio-lmmunoassay

GC/MS 2 ng/ml

GC/MS 2 ng/ml

GC/MS 2nglmL

GC/MS 100 ng/ml

GC/MS 2 ng/mL

GC/MS 2nglmL

GC/MS 2 ng/ml

GC/MS 2nglmL

GC/MS 10 ng/ml

TLC - Thin Layer Chromatography

GC-FID - Gas Chromatography - Flame lonization Detector

GC/MS - Gas Chromatography / Mass Spectrometry

LC/MS/MS - Liquid Chromatography Tandem Mass Spectrometry

Not detected

Not detected

Not detected

Not detected

Not detected

Not detected

Not detected

Not detected

Not detected

Comments:

Analytical testing has been performed in accordance to all Redwood Toxicology Laboratory standard operating procedures and final

results have been reviewed by laboratory certifying scientists.

Director of Sports Testing: Victor Uralets, Ph.D.

Specimens are disposed of as followsl Negatives - after 2 days; Positives - after 6 months; Methadone Maintenance - atter 2 months

Page 2 of 2

Printed 812012014 3:46 PM

DAVID MILLER

140818-12288 5T60

Chain of Custody (On Site Drug Screen / Request for Laboratory Confirmation) aa< 3B

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[Chad_Scott]

Way to step up Dave!!!!!!

[eleeski]

I want the kids tested so they don't get cancer in 30 years, lose IQ points to pot or otherwise adversely affect their long-term health.

 

I don't care about a level playing field for old guys whose lifetime potential earnings are less than a practice team football player's first year salary. In fact, if there is something that really works to improve athletic performance and quality of life, old guys should be encouraged to use it.

 

Fear of drug testing did limit the treatment of my hip and the horrible disease Shingles. Lots of useful medicines are on the WADA list. I'm kind of bitter that the treatment options for an old guy are limited because I am a good skier.

 

I know Dave personally and I find that he has high ethical standards. That he felt it was necessary to dispel the rumors makes this a scary witchhunt.

 

Eric

[wtrskior]

Its got to be the Canadian beer then

[E_T]

Not sure what I just read , but the yelling at the top must have been good .....

[Horton]

This kind of topic is great for traffic and keeps things moving but I have very mixed feelings about it. I am not sure it is in the spirit of this community.

 

Instead of censoring this topic, I am going to demand that before anyone who posts in this thread MUST have their real name in their profile or signature.

 

If you cannot figure out how to do that message me with your name and I will do it for you.

 

@wtrskior‌ you first

[Horton]

We all know who @scotchipman‌ and @eleeski‌ are. Never mind @E_T‌

[TylerR]

It's sad that we care about the old guys more than the younger people. As @eleeski‌ said why are we wasting time limiting the treatment options for the old guys.

[Chad_Scott]

First of all, I was one of the ones that brought up the drug testing for the Big Dawgs and for the 35 plus worlds. I brought the topic up to protect the brand we have created with the Big Dawg Series. No one as made any accusations about anyone, merely introduced testing to keep a level playing field and keep it clean. I get randomly tested all the time, it does not mean the DEA thinks I am doing drugs!!! It is to make sure no one decides to test the system and start doing things they shouldn't do. This was a preliminary test that all of the skiers in the Big Dawg Agreed to do because we all want to protect this event. Most PED's can not be found through a urine test so we look to conduct future testing to include a more comprehensive blood test. These will be more comprehensive and include PED'S such as HGH and EPO. This was a trial run and everyone who skis the big dawg agreed to do this in order to protect the event we have created. That is why we formed our own association to protect OUR event. Hats off to Dave for being the first and only one to post his results. Hopefully I will be fortunate enough to get tested as a member of the sweet 16 and I will follow Dave's lead and post my results immediately. Instead I was on the shore drinking crown royal and wearing dark glasses to protect my eyes from flashing lights. LOL

[JC McCavit]

In order to protect the Big Dawg brand, it might be beneficial to perform criminal back ground checks, psychological evaluations and IQ test. Anyone who has broken the law, including speeding tickets should be banned to protect the brand. Banning the health benefits of legally prescribed life saving medicines is getting a little carried away.

[Than_Bogan]

Darn Canadians!

 

(Hey Dave, keep kicking ass please, because you have to win the Goode Bracket or else I'll be embarassed forever by losing to @Horton...)

 

Btw, I'm about 50% with Eric on this one: I really question the value of PED testing in this context. But I understand that theoretically somebody could take a whole lot of something very dangerous (but temporarily advantageous), and then the equilibrium state becomes that you can't compete if you don't.

 

So I have very mixed feelings on the entire topic.

[ripa38]

@Chad_Scott, Thank you for pointing out that HGH and EPO are not tested for with urine samples, and require a blood test. Both are extremely hard to detect accurately and have comparatively short half lives. Just ask Lance Armstrong, or the NFL players association. I applaud your efforts, and love that @David Miller posted his test. Fun to see the list that is tested. I think most would agree that a big cardboard check and dozens of fans is hardly worth hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. I look forward to the progression of what is an important discussion initiated to protect the integrity of the Dig Dawg series.

 

In keeping with Hortons rules for this thread.

Real Name

Dr. Todd McBride

[Horton]

@JC McCavit‌

You totally miss the point. It is not about the dangerous drugs or legitimately prescribed drugs. This is not about the drugs your orthopedic Dr gives you for your injury or whatever.

 

If one skier uses PEDs to ski more or gain better fitness => that skier has an advantage over the skier who eats right and works on fitness without PEDs.

 

It is also not about the old bodybuilder “Juice”. The PEDs that are the subject of conversation are NOT for getting HUGE. These drugs are for faster recovery and perhaps augmented blood oxygen.

 

Unfortunately the assertion is win at all cost even if that means PEDs. Is anyone on PEDs? I don’t know but it is a bummer to see fingers pointed….

 

[Razorskier1]

I wasn't really worried about PEDs in the BD. If, as a group, the skiers feel this will help maintain the value of the BD brand then they should do it. I love the BD -- can't believe how consistently great all of you ski! I hope to be able to make it to an event so I can take my qualifying rounds and then sit back and watch y'all ski in person.

[Jody_Seal]

Flashing lights !!! That's a PIP!!

[skidawg]

Where do we get our results? I will gladly post mine as long as no one laughs at the abnormally high amounts of hops and barley or elevated cholesterol levels!!!

[JC McCavit]

@Horton - Maybe, but my point is if you're willing to break the law or a rule, whether for speeding or anything else, you have demonstrated you do not feel the need to follow rules and therefore do not provide the character standards representative of the Big Dawg brand.

[eleeski]

The whole idea that what is important is the sport or the brand and not the health of the athletes is horrible. At any level.

 

This testing is all wrong. No mention of therapeutic use exemption for the drugs. No consideration of the special needs of the sport. Just a jump onto the "clean" bandwagon.

 

When we become old guys, PEDs can become performance Enabling drugs. 35 is a long way from 59, hopefully you young old guys will still be around to play the game in a couple of decades.

 

Eric

 

PS The TUE process is difficult and certainly beyond the normal scope of most primary care doctors.

[Horton]

@JC McCavit‌ should we measure handles?

[David Miller]

Thanks Chad!! I like your last sentence. Anyone can get copies of their test from George Levien.

[Ilivetoski]

It is a sad day when skiers have to post their drug test results to gain others trust....

[thager]

Ridiculous!! Hope I don't test a false positive because I got my rabies and parvo shot's.

[TylerR]

@Horton‌ @wtrskior‌ I love how some people have time to dislike some peoples posts but not the time to post their real names. For those who can't take the time to click on my name my name is Tyler Reynolds. I ski at the last Openwater course in north Alabama and I put my name behind everything I post.

[Ilivetoski]

@chad_scott back up for a second about a fair playing field. Is there such thing as that in this sport? If I live in Minnesota, and I am going up against people from Florida, do they not have an unfair advantage in being able to ski 365 days a year? What about people who can afford ZO boat vs. those who have to settle for perfect pass (still think that the timing of USAWS mandating that ZO as the only speed control was a HUGE mistake). Dosent being able to practice behind what you will be skiing behind in tournaments give you an edge? What about being able to find time to take a week off work to go down to ski school? I honestly dont think there is such thing as a "fair playing field" in this sport. Way more variables than running down a court and throwing a ball in a hoop.

[kstateskier]

Is there any way the next person can post their results as an abridged version?

[wtrskior]

@Horton‌ If you can't read the humor and sarcasm in my post, I don't know what to say and how my name (which is that of a nobody in the waterski world) changes anything. My name might as well be John Smith (close enough)..

 

Seriously though, what exactly do you find offensive about my post? no more jokes allowed on the forum, or only your friends can make them?

 

@TylerR‌ lighten up, and I don't care who you are or aren't.

 

BTW I have done ski deals with other members here, so I'm not anonymous at all, they not only know my name, but phone number, email and home address as well. I'd prefer a few thousand strangers not know my name, or bots be able to search me out - call me crazy?

[MrJones]

livetoski is correct. As I tell the kids all the time "life is not fair". Run what ya brung and get on with it.

[MrJones]

Just to clarify. I don't agree with PED use of any sort, but the "level playing field" does not really exist in any sport. Access to coaching, time, weather, equipment, etc. is variable.

[Than_Bogan]

@MrJones And thank god for that. Give me something with some barriers to entry and maybe my dedication to it can give me a fighting chance!

[Stevie Boy]

@Dave Miller, in my mind it was never in Doubt, basically it comes down to the fact, that you a great athlete and able to compete at a high standard, something the finger pointers are unable to do, do not let them mess with your head, ski on Dave, you are a pleasure for us to watch.

[Texas6]

I don't think Dave had to post anything to gain anyones trust - His character is backed up by many - People often times draw circles on the backs of those in the front, simple as that - PED's are a reality in all sports, and there is nothing unique about ours that would make it immune from cheating, or better if we allowed it - its simply an unfortunate requirement for the highest levels of fair competion in any sport.

[JC McCavit]

So this thread is really about someone accusing Dave Miller of using PEDs? Who was it? If that is the case good on Dave for posting his results. Thanks to one a-hole, now all the Big Dawgs have to bare the cost of PED testing. How much does one test cost?

[eleeski]

@Ilivetoski‌ Life is not always fair. I'm OK with measuring handles and speed. There are standards that define the sport and tolerances for the real world.

 

Drug testing and rules began because East German Olympians were getting cancer and other problems. Cyclists were dying during races. Somehow things morphed into sanctity of sport and from there into witchhunts.

 

Old water skiers gain little reward from skiing. It's just for fun. And to stay healthy and active as they age. No compelling incentives to damage oneself with drugs.

 

My arthritis means that no drugs will ever give me an advantage. My body is not on a level playing field. As an Old skier, the rules (and brand) need to reflect that. Adopting WADA rules without AWSA blessing is misguided. Because the "legitimately prescribed drugs" are still regarded as cheating without the TUE AWSA oversees.

 

A further thought, if a PED improves the quality of life for an old guy and is safe, maybe we should embrace the proper use instead of criminalizing it.

 

Eric

 

[Jdubs]

It may or not have been posted, but lots of folks have talked about guys using enhancement drugs. At least where I ski - people have many suspicions that the big dawg is full of the stuff.

Glad to see your not Dave, (even though I have no clue how to read what you posted)

[Ilivetoski]

@eleeski completly agree. Just because I am from Kentucky instead of Florida, Texas, or California doesn't mean that I should be at 34 instead of 36. Or that they should give me Perfect Pass instead of ZO. My point was there is some s**t that you cant control.

[Horton]

@eleeski‌ I should know better than to try to reason with you but I am not real smart.

 

Let’s say there are ten trickers. All of about equal age and health. They all want to be National Champ or Local Champ or whatever. Normally the winner is dependent on luck, genetics, talent, commitment, hard work and factors like work and family.

 

Then one of the trickers discovers that if he takes “Magic Trick Juice” he can overcome some of his natural limitations. He has better balance & strength plus can trick twice as long every practice set. The trick juice is illegal so it is not really available to the other 9 trickers.

 

You and the other 8 guys train as hard as you can. You ski as much as you can and sacrifice as much as you can short of drinking the Magic Juice.

 

Here is the key question: After the guy who is on the Trick Juice moves to the front of the pack are you discouraged? Does the competition become less fun? Is the spirit of event tarnished? Don’t you want the playing field level enough so the guy with the most commitment and talent and maybe some luck is the winner?

 

In the end I do not know if the testing will ever prove anything. HGH is one of the PEDs I hear about and you need a blood test to catch it. Sports like cycling have created an industry around masking PEDs. Look at how long Lance Armstrong was in the Juice before he was busted.

 

[jipster43]

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin.

 

No job or sport should trump constitutional liberties. I compete to bring out the best in myself. When that happens titles and victories are meaningless.

 

 

[Ilivetoski]

@horton you contradict yourself. You say 10 trickers are "equal age and health" but then when talking about using PEDs you say one has natural limitations? I completley understand using them if it means leveling out the playing field (e.g. one person has a certain reason that they cannot physically compete at the same level-- when I say leveling the playing field, I stand by my statement about you cant have a level playing field.)

[gregy]

My father took HGH under the care of an anti-aging specialist for while. He wasn't looking for any advantage, just wanted to continue staying active and pursue his passions. He was pushing 70 at the time. He was a competitive sailer which can be really demanding and the people he competed against we much younger. Never thought much about it until this thread. My dad is a very righteous type of person but he also competitive as hell.

[Horton]

@Ilivetoski‌ we all have natural limitations. If we did not we would all feel and look be like 20 year olds.

 

Do I understand that you think we should be able to take all the PEDs we want?

[Razorskier1]

We all have limits. I've had 4 shoulder surgeries, 3 knee surgeries, biceps tendon surgery, cervical spine surgery, and a ruptured disc in my lower back. What can I do to keep skiing? Train my ass off in the offseason and ski smarter during the season. At 51 I honestly don't think any of those things have limited me. My passion for the sport and to keep picking up another buoy is the only performance enhancer needed.

[eleeski]

@Horton‌ I support drug testing for younger athletes. Strictly for health reasons.

 

If there were no health consequences, I would support unlimited PED use. I also support allowing boron fibers in skis and ZO in boats.

 

As we age, our bodies change. Our ability to heal from injury declines. We get diseases. Our natural hormone levels decline. Drugs have been developed to address these real problems. WADA classifies many as PEDs. What is a useful drug for an old guy is dangerous cheating for a kid. Judgment is needed - not the WADA Olympic paranoia.

 

There is no magic elixir. I hope we find one. And I hope we are allowed to use it.

 

The Tour was more interesting with Lance. If things were truly in the open we might know if his drug use caused his cancer.

 

Drug testing old guys is ridiculous. Especially the way it is being done to the Big Dawgs.

 

Eric

[LkSamm196]

Drug testing Big Dawgs!!!

 

Ha ha ha....get over yourselves!!

 

Nobody gives a shit about your esoteric sport!

 

Figure it out and ski for yourselves

[eleeski]

@Horton‌ I had to pull over on my drive to ask you: do you want to compete against me healthy? I am getting a shot in the hip before Worlds. It might make me test positive. The doctors don't know (and don't care as it's medically needed). If the shot works, I might be able to do RTB. Do you want me clean or healthy? Beating me because I'm crippled sucks. Medaling despite being DFL because there aren't enough MM also sucks. Anything that makes the event bigger is good.

 

MM injured no shows at Nationals: Paul, Randy, Stan and sort of me. Every one on the starting dock wants everyone there and healthy. Except those who value having the sport "clean" to the extent that they would sacrifice the sport.

 

I hope you welcome me and my cortisone aided hip on the starting dock. Because I'm skiing against you, you MM star!

 

Eric

[Horton]

@eleeski‌ if you will scroll up to a bit you will see I wrote the following

 

this is not about the dangerous drugs or legitimately prescribed drugs. This is not about the drugs your orthopedic Dr gives you for your injury or whatever.

[Horton]

If you have an injury and your sports dr or ortho shoots you with Cortisone I do not know anyone who has an issue. If you have low Testosterone take AndroGel if you can afford it. If you have Gingivitis I recommend a Sonicare.

 

If you are otherwise healthy and you are taking meds to get an advantage over your rivals you are a cheater.

 

Before you launch into I tirade about what is and is not tested I realize that standardize testing may pick up things like Cortisone or AndroGel. I am not sure how the testing should or should not be done but I can not ignore the fact that some chemicals are for health and some for athletic performance. If the test at Sr Worlds would flag you for Cortisone I disagree with that. Holy Crap we may agree on something.

 

Lastly I have been shot up with my share of shit. I have perpetual tendentious and the cortisone just gets near me to pre injury condition. I now take Mobic periodically. Mobic is not a PED in my book.

 

So for the last time ....This is not about the drugs your orthopedic Dr gives you for your injury or whatever.

[Ilivetoski]

@horton Noooooo but if someone has a legit physical disability (not something like being small but a medical condition level of small like muscle not being able to form (not sure if this exists just using as a hypothetical situation)) then why not use something like this to help said person have a better chance at competing. There is a difference in my mind between natural limitations (which I would think would be something that actually limits you to compete at a normal level) vs. normal aging and body deterioration. I do not defend the use of PEDs when we want but I agree with @eleeski in the fact that there is a time and place for them. If someone who is a fully healthy individual uses them purely to gain an advantage, they should be kicked out. If someone uses them to be able to get up on a slalom ski and be able to have strength to pull behind the boat then I am in all favor of letting them do that.

[Horton]

if anyone wants to know more about my drug of choice

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meloxicam

[Horton]

@Ilivetoski‌ so we agree (mostly) but you are arguing anyway. I give up. Anyone know where I can buy some Dianabol

[jcamp]

I'm far from a good enough to ski in the Big Dawg, so I won't ever have to worry about getting tested. But if I was a Big Dawg, I'd be very concerned about the accuracy of testing, the chain of custody and even the potential for tampering.

 

Reputations and careers could be ruined by false positives, accidentally taking something they weren't aware would trigger a positive (like over-the-counter medications or contaminated supplements), or more sinisterly, someone wanting to purposely harm them by rigging the tests. You wouldn't even have to rig a test to impugn someone, just start a rumor or two that there were "some issues" with someone's test and it'd eventually get around and be quite damaging.

 

There are ski school owners, ski manufacturers, world renown coaches, "sponsored" skiers, and even law enforcement officers who compete in the Big Dawg. What would a false or honestly mistaken positive do to their careers or the companies and products they are associated with?

 

On a side note, I think that a long education process should be involved in any testing, i.e. you can take this kind of cold medicine, not this one, etc. Most of these guys haven't been part of a testing regimen before so they probably aren't familiar with the ins and outs of all this. It can't be easy to keep track of because we hear all the time about Olympic and pro-level athletes accidentally taking something that triggers a positive test (at least that's what they say). Springing a test on skiers with a week's notice doesn't seem very fair. What if they'd been battling a cold and took a bunch of over the counter medications?

 

I'm on the fence on whether Big Dawgs should be tested, both sides of the argument have their merits. But if they are tested, there needs to be very rigorous education and testing controls. I'm not familiar with what's currently in place so maybe this is already exists (I assume that's the case with testing controls), but the quickly implemented nature of these first round of tests does raise questions.