Resurrecting a Neglected Slalom Course

[DefectiveDave]

Right now I'm trying to resurrect my old family slalom course to use over the coming winter. My father has agreed to drive the the boat so long as he doesn't have to come up to my lake. It's surprisingly hard to find people to ski in North Carolina over the winter. :-)

 

This particular course is an old Accufloat installed in 1978 by my father and most recently used in 2004. It is primarily stainless cable and PVC construction with some poly rope attaching the mainline to the 100 lb anchors at each end. The course sits under about 14 feet of water. The only problem with the course during the first 26 years of its life was when my mother got the mainline stuck in a prop and ended up cutting it in 1990 or so. The mainline was spliced back together at this point using a stainless joint which should be more resilient than the rest of the line. This course is totally manual, theoretically we just find the mainline, follow it to the nearest attachment point, and install the buoys one-by-one. It's an old design, but very simple and robust.

 

We know almost exactly where the course is along the shore, including both anchors, and we know within 100 ft or so where the mainline should be from the shore. Generally we just drag a small grapnel-anchor/grappling-hook along the bottom until we find the mainline near 1 ball. So that's the course that I'm trying to bring back from the depths.

 

Right now I'm simply trying to see if the course is salvagable, but today we weren't even able to find the mainline using the grapnel anchor after dragging it along the bottom 20 or 30 times. It has been common in the past to drag multiple times, especially at the beginning of the year when the course had been sitting all winter, but never more than 3 or 4 times. The way I see it there are 2 possibilities:

 

1. The mainline is buried under plenty of silt as we are near the entrance of a small river

2. The mainline has been broken

 

Given that the course survived 20 years of heavy use and 5 years of intermittent use with few issues before going into its current hibernation, I am hopeful that it is still sitting there on the bottom waiting for someone to come along and ski. I only have 2 ideas right now for proceeding forward:

 

1. Get a bigger grappling hook to get deeper into the silt

2. Pinpoint a mainline anchor (should be easier to find in the silt and I know very closely where it is) using a fishfinder and dive down to see if I can follow the mainline from the source

 

Both those ideas may very well be stupid, but I would greatly appreciate any ideas, anecdotes, or suggestions from the ballers out there. Please help me try to bring the course back!

[wtrskior]

Www.ez-slalom.com not worth the time or money getting that old thing going again. Buy new (or used off sia).

[mwetskier]

assuming it hasn't been taken out by someone else in your absence you have a better chance of dragging for an anchor line. poly rope typically stays buoyant just about forever and is likely to migrate up ward even as settling silt has been burying the sinking cable center line. plus the poly attachment point to an anchor is probably above the bottom grade by some amount making it an even easier target for your grapple. go out one more time and this time aim for an anchor line.

[TylerR]

I second @mwetskier‌ comment. If you can't find the line ez-slalom is the way to go

[Razorskier1]

If u know how to scuba you could dive and drag your hand thru the silt like a hook and see if you get it. Problem can be that sometimes there are objects on the bottom that can cut or harm you. Could hire a recovery diver, but that's probably $200. At that point you are better off to start over. You may also have warped or sagging PVC at this point.

[gregy]

I pulled up an old course that had been abandoned. Got a buddy that scuba dived to find it. Most of the stainless was in good condition, it had a few place that had to be spliced. Couple of arms were broke and had to be repaired. We did it on a budget, I used plastic jugs for boat guides.

[Edbrazil]

 

If you or a friend does the Scuba deal, wear gloves. Would be nice if there was good clear

visibility, but probably not. Should use a dive compass so you're not going in circles. If you

maybe want to use a real grapple, Atlantic & Gulf in Miami is a source: www.atagulf.com

 

If it has just been sitting there on the bottom, it is likely intact, short of vandalism or

something rusting/breaking. Best as I recall, the "Accufloat" design with stainless

components and PVC doesn't deteriorate.

 

I would keep on trying, at least for another set or two. Could drop a temporary "marker"

anchor where you think a course anchor is, or the poly leader line, so a diver has something

to work from. At least, it is not very deep there.

[behindpropellers]

For future reference:

 

We have subs on all of our anchors. The subs are 4' above the floor of the lake and far below the surface. When something breaks and we need to find them we just drag a chain between two kayaks and it is relatively easy to hook the subs to find the anchor.

 

Tim

[DefectiveDave]

Thanks for the ideas guys. The visibility is very poor (1-2 feet) and unfortunately I don't know anyone who scuba dives. At 14 feet I can free dive down for a bit, but not long enough for a good search.

 

I think searching for the anchor line might be a great next step because it requires no new equipment (or cost) and can be done relatively quickly. If that fails it looks like there is a dive service at my lake so that will be an option. Of course, if the dive service is too expensive I will definitely consider a new course, but like @gregy I am also on a rather tight budget.

 

@behindpropellers,

That sounds like a good idea and I wish I already had some attached. Once/if I find the course, attaching a sub to at least one anchor is probably a must.

[gregy]

I hit up local auto repair shops and dug out antifreeze jugs from there dumpsters. Clorox jugs work well also.

[oldjeep]

I'd try dragging a box anchor if you have one. They will really dig if you can get it near where you think the line is.

[DefectiveDave]

@oldjeep,

 

I'm a bit hesitant to try a box anchor in this case. The main problem is that we "know" where the line should be give or take 100 ft. It's far enough out in the lake that it's difficult to eyeball the distance from shore. With a box anchor I'm a bit afraid I wouldn't be able to tell when I caught the line, breaking it in the process.

 

@Razorskier1‌,

 

I found a recovery diver in my area for $85/hour, does that seem like a comparable rate to what you were expecting?

[oldjeep]

@DefectiveDave‌ - yes, I think you would have to drag until it caught and then pull the anchor up - and then repeat. Things won't let loose until you get right above them, so it should be pretty obvious once you start pulling it up. At least where I anchor, there is no way you would drag a box very far at a time - definitely not 100 feet.

 

We lost a portable course for 3 days a few years ago and it was really difficult to find with a grapple - the one we had just wanted to roll. Ultimately we did wind up hooking it with the grapple, but I think we just finally got lucky.

 

Good luck

[A_B]

We have been actively using our AF course for about 20 years or more. the only thing that degrades are some of the hardware that attaches to the stainless diamonds on the pvc. The pvc could be cracked, but if it has been sitting undisturbed on the bottom, they should be ok.

 

We drag an anchor for ours when the tracer line from shore comes off. (snap hooks eventually break). If you think the poly anchor line might be easier to snag, then start there. Have a 30 foot piece of rope with a snap hook on it and a buoy to run down the mainline once you find it.

You will need to go real slow and work the cable out of the muck, and the pvc pipes will probably be real heavy with sludge and will need to be wiped off.

 

We have a small fluted anchor and drag that across. We have muck on the bottom of our lake, so it settles in a little over winter. We leave the mid course buoys on and it sinks with them, but helps float it once we get going in Spring.

 

Good luck!

[TylerR]

@DefectiveDave‌ if you want someone to come dive for it and can wait a few weeks i could probably make a trip your direction, but I would recomend trying to drag for the anchor lines first. And most recovery divers are in your price range

[mwetskier]

if you do find a diver to help send him down with a boat hook or gaff hook. as a diver dragging a hand through silt of unknown content with or with out gloves sounds like a good way to find your self in trouble. let a tool you can let go of find that old car hood or tangled fishing gear.

[Edbrazil]

Good advice above. I have had some close ones. You always want to have something like

a knife, scissors, or snips with you. Even doing Scuba. A couple of years back, at a job in

Maryland, my Scuba diver got caught in some old lines. Had to drop his gear to get free.

 

One Tour waterworker doing work under a ramp got a fishhook stuck in his hand, and had

to rip it out. That was breath-hold work, so a real emergency.

 

There was a posting here or on Ski Fly about a guy who went out to do some work on buoys,

on his paddle-board, and then free-diving. Got stuck under water and died.

 

Also a good idea to have a co-person, whether in water or in a boat.

 

When we did work at Disney for the Ski Supreme event many years ago, they wanted to

add 2 divers to our work diver. 1 down and 1 surface. That was a bit overkill, as they got

in the way more than helped.

[DefectiveDave]

@AB,

I haven't even thought of how to clean out the PVC yet, but it doesn't seem like it would be easy. It's very likely that sludge will have infiltrated and need to be cleaned out of the interior. It just helps to remind me that I'm still working on the first problem of what is sure to be many. :-)

 

Could you also elaborate on the tracer line concept? Seems like it might be useful once I've found the course. Thanks!

 

@TylerR,

I really appreciate the offer, but I wouldn't want to be a burden. I don't mind hiring a local diver to go down there and check it out if it comes to it. If they find it, get some of the line out of the muck, and are able to get a buoy attached then it will be money well spent in my book.

 

@mwetskier and @Edbrazil‌ ,

I was a bit worried about that as well, but the diver I spoke to didn't seem to think it was a problem. He seemed quite used to digging through the muck look for anything from wedding bands to dropped anchors. This guy even has a metal detector which can probably be used to find the stainless mainline directly. I'll make sure they wear hand protection and I'll be there as a surface spotter, I would feel terrible if someone got hurt looking for an old course. Hopefully it doesn't come to that though!

[DefectiveDave]

@scotchipman,

Great idea, but couldn't find it in the historical data so either it wasn't up when they shot the image or the resolution just isn't good enough. GPSing will be a good idea if we can ever raise it.

[markn]

Did this very thing this week-end. We left our second course un-used for at least 6 years because the gators kept taking the buoys. To locate the main line, we used an 18 lb. mud anchor (the type that rotates a portion into the lake bed.) In three drags, we snagged the main line. Not certain what your lake bed composition is, but if sandy or silt, this type of anchor works very well. Good luck. MWN

[DefectiveDave]

@markn,

 

Could you point me to an image of a mud anchor? I'm not familiar with that type and google is returning lots of different anchors when I try an image search. Thanks!

[A_B]

Dave, the tracer is used to snap onto the main cable. A good swivel clip is tied onto a rope with an old buoy on the end. Someone sits on the back of the boat as we idle along the course until it reaches the next diamond. We stop the boat, pull the course up and snap the buoys on. A good boat hook about 10 or 12 foot is a handy item to have along also. Pulling the course up with a lot of gook on the pvc will be a challenge for a guy in the water using a USCG vest, forget about a slalom non CG vest. It will pull him under. A good stiff brush will get most of the gradu off the pvc. As far as inside, you can move them back in forth in the water if you have the tension off and a lot will come out that way. Maybe a 1" diameter pvc pipe with capped ends can be jammed into it to move some mud out. Not sure about that one.

 

As far as the land to course tracer, we use cable tied off on shore a few feet deep and run it to the pre-gate, with a snap hook. Each Spring we pop the tracer line on the cable and then run the boat out to the course and pull it up. Easy unless the snap hook breaks. Then we are fishing for the main cable with an anchor.

[alex38]

i do this alot, if you go back out to drag for it try these two things, 1. make your line to the grappler very long and let it out so you know its on the bottom and wont lift up or miss anything, 2. (and this can be difficult) try and drop the grappler as close to where you think the mainline is as you can.

 

find it, and it is super easy to fix, you can get replacement parts from ez-slalom, or make your own.

[6balls]

You couldn't pay me to dive for it in low/no visibility...not worth it to get tangled up in something I can't see or evaluate and hope my knife gets me out of it. Hopefully you snag the line...if not buy a new course.

[BraceMaker]

A length of heavy chain will help any snagging. Keeps the shank of your grapple on the ground while dragged.

[Ed_Obermeier]

@DefectiveDave I've been following this discussion with some interest. Having a little bit of experience with the subject I thought I'd throw out a couple of thoughts, for whatever they may/may not be worth to you.

 

You said the course had been in use for basically 26 years and has then been sitting on the bottom since 2004? That's 10 years of sitting in/sinking into the muck for already pretty old cable and PVC pipe. That any of it would still be in good enough condition to not end up being an ongoing maintenance headache (assuming it's still in basically one piece) IMO is asking quite a bit of a now 36 year old system that's been buried in the bottom muck for the past 10 years. Not impossible but I'd be pretty surprised to find it to still be in functional condition.

 

At a minimum I'd expect that even if the cable is still serviceable the crimps will likely be either badly corroded or some could perhaps be pretty much completely gone requiring they be replaced. Stainless steel cable can and does eventually (but very slowly) corrode and being in contact with the bottom muck will only accelerate that process. Especially over that long a time frame.

 

Unless the bottom is perfectly flat the likelihood of the PVC not being bent or warped IMO is pretty low. Plus it gets brittle with age. Happens slowly but we're talking about 36 years in the water here. Most likely it's filled with the muck and covered with heavy stuck-on funk. It would cost you maybe $300 to replace the PVC and save the time/labor/headaches of trying to salvage 36 year old PVC. I know you said you're on a budget but everything has a point-of-diminishing returns. To me 36 year old PVC wouldn't be worth the effort.

 

If you do find it and pull it up please post some photos, I'm sure we'd all be interested to see what it looks like after that long in the water and on the bottom.

 

----------------------------------------

 

Rereading this before I posted it, I fear I'm coming off like some sort of Debbie Downer. It's not my intention to be negative and I'm certainly not trying to talk you out of giving it a go. Just trying to offer a bit of insight based on my own experience. If this comes off as being negative I sincerely apologize, certainly not the intention I came to this with.

[DefectiveDave]

@AB,

Thanks for the description of the shore line. If everything works out this seems like a really good piece of insurance to prevent the current issue from recurring!

 

@BraceMaker and @alex38,

I'll take any help I can get to let the anchor sink in a little deeper! I'm also currently in contact with www.atagulf.com (as suggested by @Edbrazil‌) to get a bigger grapnel anchor to help dig a little deeper in the muck. I think the limit of my current grapple is that no matter how much weight I apply it can't get much deeper than 2-3 inches.

 

@Ed_Obermeier‌,

I'm trying to stay optimistic, but I realize the odds are probably stacked against me. One thing I do have going for me is that the bottom is relatively flat in a local sense. Even when this course was being used all the time we raised and sunk it every time we skied (local rules). So of those first 26 years it was still sitting on the bottom 98% of the time with no noticeable warping. I just hope that if I find the mainline intact that I don't pull the course apart trying to raise it from the muck. I'm also very worried about the connection points.

 

I'll keep this thread updated as I try to make progress. I'm flying back into Charlotte on Wednesday evening (I'm currently on a business trip) and I plan to go directly to my parents place and drag for the mainline near the anchor. I'll be alone and using their waverunner to drag so I won't be able to do too much even if I find it. However, if I get lucky I can at least pull it out of the muck up to the gates and bring the boat back out next week.

[BraceMaker]

Dragging is the same as anchoring.

 

The length of the rope goes longer - which means the angle is "flatter" so the tines of whatever you drag are pointed more down.

 

If you have say 10' of chain in front of your grapple those 10' drag in the muck pulling the grapple along the bottom in a way which even 200' of rope won't.

 

The disadvantage of the chain is that you won't have the "feel" you are more likely to be destructive after catching the course since the relative weight and drag of the chain will not let you feel your catch.

 

At the point that you go to paying a diver I'd just buy a new course, dragging a rope around in the evening is beer drinking work and as such fully doable.

 

[markn]

Evidently I used the incorrect term for the type of anchor used. Just checked the Overtons catalog and they are called "Fluke-Style" anchor. Can't believe they list for $100.00. I would think once you see the picture, you could just borrow one!

Good luck and sorry for the incorrect terminology!

MWN

[Edbrazil]

Best of luck, Dave. Just remember:

If they could find the Titanic in 13,000 feet of water....

[oldjeep]

@markn - typically called a Danforth anchor

[DefectiveDave]

Yesterday evening I dragged the hook many times near where the south anchor should be located. I also went up and down the course a few more times just to see if I got a bite. I've had no luck yet. I also tried a Danforth anchor we had lying around but it really bit into the mud and could hardly be moved with the jetski.

 

A bigger grapnel anchor (with a larger diameter and hooks) is on order so I'll have to wait for that to arrive before trying again.

[lcarnes]

The Lake Lure Ski Club pulled out a Wally Sinker this last weekend that had been sunk for 2 years. It was ugly. But some stuff is still usable, and the Ski Club has no use for this anymore. I've sent you an email message with the number of the person to contact about it.

[WBLskier]

I'd say look for a used one over the winter or buy a new cable and build your own PVC, particularly if you are planning to leave it in place again. In that case you could just bolt the PVC together and it would be really cheap.

[DefectiveDave]

Found the course! We were able to snag it with a 12 lb grapnel anchor from atagulf on the first pass. The gates are thoroughly entrenched and we spent about 10 minutes trying to get it out of the mud. Unfortunately the sky fell and we weren't able to raise the course today or even determine if it's still attached to the anchors.

 

Any ideas on the best way to dig it out? Given the age of the course, I'm worried if we just try to tug it out we could break something.

 

 

[Edbrazil]

 

Yay! I would watch the heavy pulling. Maybe you or a friend have some water worker capability

to help the thing get free of the mud. Scuba is the best, but breath-hold with a dive mask and

fins could work, as long as that person is competent. Faced with a similar situation with a

WallyCourse, I did use a Scuba-certified friend a couple of years ago.

 

With free-diving, you always need to worry about getting snagged and trapped under water.

 

Lets hear it for Atlantic & Gulf in Miami. Even though they are a fishing supply company, they

do understand water skiing a bit and will work with us. I have bought a lot of things from them.

Good source for subbuoys, for example. And, of course, the grapple.

[DefectiveDave]

@Edbrazil, @Ed_Obermeier‌,

 

Alrighty, this project is now officially on hold until it warms up again next season. I tried the free diving approach and managed to dig up the gate and most of the 1st buoy. Overall that was about 5-6 hours of diving and digging while miserably cold over 2 weekends (I didn't want to ruin my nice wetsuit or risk ripping a drysuit so I used a crappy wetsuit from the shed).

 

Current condition seems serviceable with the southbound anchor still being attached. The gate PVC was in good shape, the cable appears quite strong, and crimps did not appear to be rusting through. However, the cable was attached to the PVC using Nylon zipties for some reason and at least 2 of these are no longer intact, one at the gates and another at 1 ball. Luckily this was easily repaired at the gate and I will be happy if they are the extent of my problems raising this course.

 

Until next year!

[6balls]

5-6 hours for a gate and one buoy? What do you make an hour(you don't have to answer)? Divide cost of new course by that amount and see how many hours you need to work your day job to cover it...are you dollars ahead working to make money for a new course or dollars ahead putting in 40 hours to dig up this one? Keep in mind it was cold and miserable work, too...is your workplace cold and or miserable?

I'd be ordering a new one come spring, installing it over an hour and then skiing.

 

[A_B]

Heck, how much better can you get if you spend 40 hours behind a boat skiing through a new course instead of diving for the old one? We put 40 hours on our boat this summer, so my whole season!!

[oldjeep]

@DefectiveDave I get it, sometimes it is just about the challenge.

[Wish]

I'll defend @DefectiveDave‌ a little here. When my SS course was cut up and destroyed by vandals, it would have been easier to buy a new one. But sometimes our jobs don't allow more $$ to be earned simply by spending more time at them outside of a 9-5. I don't even want to count the hours myself and friends of mine spent recovering and rebuilding it. (thank you @Ed_Obermeier‌ at EZ-Slalom for all the assistance). But the idea of dropping that much coin on a new one was not in the cards. If he has found some of it, the rest will not be hard to bring up if it is all still attached together. Crimps are the weakest point so that will determine it's usability. Best of luck to you @DefectiveDave‌ in the spring. Hope it all works out.

[DefectiveDave]

@6balls, @AB, @oldjeep,

 

The 5-6 hours did include hot coco breaks, but I get what you're saying. I was really rethinking some of my life choices out there on the bottom of the lake. Unfortunately, there is no way in hell my wife will let me buy a new/used slalom course. When she added up my costs for skiing this year she almost had an aneurysm (it included new engine heads on the 92 nautique and lots of little maintenance things that added up, so I can see how it was a bit surprising). I'll be lucky if I get away with buying a new impeller next season.

 

I'm evaluating my options, but I'm hoping that once I pick up the effort again next year in warmer water it will go smoother and faster. Lots of the time on the gate and one ball was just getting comfortable with the components of the course, and getting comfortable with working under 14 feet of water with zero visibility (for a while there I was working in 5 second spurts before I got used it). Now I kind of know the geometry and how everything is attached so I know what to look for and can find my way around.

 

All that being said, a new course is looking pretty good right now.

[Skoot1123]

@DefectiveDave‌ - sometimes it is about the "chase" - you'll be very happy when it is done and you'll have a sense of accomplishment too. That - you can't put a pricetag on.

[6balls]

Adding up costs of recreational pursuits is never a good idea! Seems all the fun stuff is expensive.

[mwetskier]

pretty sure you can buy reindeer sausage at any butcher shop, but for some reason financially comfortable men still go out and hunt for elk. nuff said?

[LeonL]

I'm gonna assume that once you got a gate up you were able to pull the main cable up easily, all the way the one ball diamond? I see the major problem to be freeing the pvc at each location. How deep in the muck did you find the pvc to be? Does it seem feasible to pass a rope under the pvc and from the surface pull it toward the turn buoy, sliding under and hopefully breaking the muck suction and then pulling up from maybe two surface points?

[DefectiveDave]

@LeonL‌,

 

Yes, once I find the mainline it is easy to follow to each PVC section. The PVC itself was under about 4-6 inches of muck and could not be forced out. I had to manually dig along the length with my hands until I could force it out. This was easy with the gate, not so much with the turn buoy at one ball.

 

Passing a rope underneath and working it from one end of the PVC to the other sounds like a great idea. It could at least be used to work it loose without all the diving. One rope between the guide buoys and another between the guide buoy and turn buoy.

[klindy]

@DefectiveDave‌ wear really tough gloves when you go down the length of the cable or PVC. Fish hooks and cable burrs can slice you up pretty badly.

[Wac]

@DefectiveDave‌ 14 years ago my ski partner and I went through months of effort to permit and install a bottom anchored course. It was tons of work, lots of cash, and not easy. To this day we still have a wonderful place to ski and teach the next generations. Many new ski friends have made it their place to ski and our skiing circle is growing. My son made his first full pass this year and now loves the sport. Don't for a minute get discouraged about resurrecting a bit of family history!! Congrats on your efforts of carrying on a great tradition of passion for a wonderful lifestyle and sport!!!

[DefectiveDave]

@Wish, @Wac,

 

Thanks for the support! There's always the chance it won't work out, but I'm more excited about bringing the old course back rather than putting in a new one.

 

@klindy,

 

Great advice. Luckily I was wearing ski gloves from the beginning and my hands came out unscathed. However, it turns out feet are just as vulnerable and I snagged my right foot on a cable burr pretty much immediately. It was just a scratch, but I also put on neoprene booties afterward. No problems after that.

 

I have also been a bit worried about getting snagged and stuck at the bottom. My solution to this has been to wear a really buoyant vest. Since the course is stuck in the mud, it turns out to work pretty well as an anchor. I just pull myself to the bottom using a buoyed cable and then simply let go when I'm done. I work away from the boat so I don't pop up and hit my head.