Would you pay for a workshop where you build your own custom carbon ski?

[Horton]

Would you pay $2,500 for a week long workshop where you build your own custom carbon ski? You show up with a ski to use as a mold plug. Using the same basic process as @AdamCord is documenting in the thread “How to Build a Water Ski at Home” thread you would build your own ski.

At the end of the week you would own one finished ski and a mold to take home. More importantly you would leave with knowledge and experience.

Food and lodging not included. Materials included. Some skiing and bad coaching might be included. (Your original ski / mold plug is likely ruined in the process.)

 

[mwetskier]

i would certainly pay for it after i got home when i tried to explain where i was for a week where the $2500 went and how i ruined 3 pairs of jeans.

[RazorRoss3]

I don't know enough about ski properties to risk ruining my original, plus having a ski that could be worse than the original, plus being out $2500 and the cost of replacing the ruined ski. If there was a pre-workshop that gave us all a much higher level engineering knowledge of ski properties then I would consider it.

[Horton]

@RazorRoss3‌ do you own a ski that you love but is all used up?

 

When you get home you can build a dozen or more with different tweaks. ...

[gt2003]

Agree with RR3. Knowing I could buy a top of the line ski for that amount of money versus taking a chance on building something questionnable. Probably wouldn't do it.

[MattP]

@Horton‌ I think a question for @AdamCord‌ would be after the initial investment of $2500+ how much does it cost in materials to produce another ski at home from the mold? And how many skis can come out of said mold?

[zyokes]

I agree with @MattP‌ if the mold is still usable for making more skis and its not going to be a couple thousand dollars every time I think it would definitely be worth it

[MCskiFreak]

@Horton I would advise that you need to tread carefully in this situation. You are basically condoning people splashing skis which for a single person is probably alright...but you get into the gray area of intellectual property.

 

The fact of the matter is for me given my profession and the way people often view the designer/engineer/artists as not really having any right to the design once it is out in circulation I think for the best interests of both yourself and the sight that this idea is one that gets canned.

[JonB]

I'm thinking spending $2,500 on a trip to Ski Paradise, in the middle of a Upstate NY winter and skiing on my vintage F1 might be better for my "knowledge and experience" than building my own ski. Unless of course.......we are building them in Acapulco, Southern Florida/California :D

[Horton]

@MCskiFreak‌ this is s "what if" question and we are talking about hobby activity.

 

Now where can I get a LeeSki to copy?

[MCskiFreak]

@Horton It really isnt a hobby activity if someone is paying $2500.00 to learn how to do it. It is a commercial endevour on your part, and one that you are advocating the splashing of someone else ideas.

 

As I said I do not think that is a very good precedent to set for the site IMO.

[disland]

There is a very interesting article in Nov 2014 Inc magazine about this very same business concept. They look at surfboards, bikes, Cars, Furniture

 

Check it out

[Chef23]

I used to tinker with golf clubs but what I did was pretty simple compared to what Adam is doing. I don't have the time (or a ski I could wreck that I want to copy) and frankly it would likely wind up costing more than buying a new ski.

[Horton]

@MCskiFreak‌ how about if we excluded any current model skis from the process?

[gregy]

Sounds like fun but realistically I don't see it happening for me. I'm sure there are folks that have time and money and would do this.

[Skoot1123]

What if instead of making a used ski useless we had a blank that was already made by the man @adamcord. Each individual could then tweak a known/"proven" prototype to their own liking by listening to the advice of Adam based on preferences of how a person wants a ski to perform?

[GOODESkier]

Can I just come for the bad coaching?

[MCskiFreak]

@Horton unless the company is defunct you need to have the permission of the mfg. before splashing a ski.

[MattP]

Every party has a pooper.

[Than_Bogan]

My all-consuming hobbies ledger is already filled.

[RazorRoss3]

@horton, at the moment I'm sitting on and old Elite, I got off of it because I liked the Razor more, I have an old Razor, I got off of it because I like the Mapple more. If my choices are to bring an old ski and guess at trying to make a better ski than people with far more experience than me or spend the same if not a little less on what will undoubtedly be higher quality from a commercial manufacturer then it's damn hard for me to put my money towards that first choice.

 

Throw in the college kid budget and most things in this sport are a bit above my sight line at the moment anyways.

[MCskiFreak]

@MattP I'll wager that you've never designed/produced something and then either never been paid for services rendered or had someone rip off your ideas...

[MattP]

@MCskiFreak‌ I have. If AC was selling plugs of current skis on the market for less than the orrgional manufacture I would have a problem with that. But there is a difference in selling a process than there is in selling plugs of skis for a profit. I know it's a fine line. I have a number of skis in my quiver I would like to tweak.

[TylerR]

I would pay good money and then some to remake some of my old favorite skis

[Jordan]

Splashing? I don't think that is exactly what is being discussed here. I think it is starting off with a production ski (that is one's own property), changing it, then using that NEW design as a plug.

 

Don't think anyone would be selling those skis.

[Wish]

Is "splashing" like "smearing".

[Horton]

Ban you all

[ozski]

The time will come when we can print our own skis - or at least the mold.

 

I think this is an interesting and creative idea but I'm a realist and when push comes to shove the money is going towards that sexy looking new ski that I can have today and the rest goes on coaching and gear.

[The_MS]

I already own 3 Monzas. Now if I could go and make a new 9800 exactly like the ski test 9800 that @MrJones bought and only rode for 2 weeks, I would do it.

[Wish]

9800s were awful... not worth making a chair out of one let alone more of them.

[The_MS]

Not this one, I think Dave sent us a good one to test. I bought another a few weeks later and it was a total dog.

[Ilivetoski]

I dont want to end up with a mold of my vapor not use a different ski for 10 years. Skis tend to get better, no ski right now is perfect.

[Wish]

@MS I bet it was a 9700 (ran 1@41 in practice..I know does not count) with a 9800 skin.. Now that would be worth remolding.

[RichardDoane]

Radar does all my heavy lifting, I just want to ride the thing

[bogboy]

I respect, and admire the fantastic skills shown here in ski building. I have learned to slow down and not rush so much into my new ski selections and "honeymoon" process, and to work more on my own skiing progress instead. I personally would rather demo some of the variety of skis offered, and take my time.

[webbdawg99]

"As with Florida’s invalidated statute, the VHDPA intended to curb the practice of “splashing” boat hulls. Splashing occurs when a manufacturer takes a finished boat hull and dips it into some mold-making compound to produce a mold of the hull. Imagine filling a pan with modeling compound (such as Play-Doh® brand), sticking your hand into the compound to create an impression, and then filling the void with resin to create a duplicate of your hand – you have just “splashed” your hand."

[gt2003]

Here's a thought if it comes to fruition. Take a modified ski from @adamcord so no ones panties get in a wad, let everyone ski it on day 1, decide the tweeks they want to make, have an expert help them with adjustment then proceed with the ski building. For what it's worth...

[gregy]

I'm looking at this as a former hobby related business owner.

 

There is an argument that a workshop like this could help new ski sales. 1) a person is going to see the work and effort that goes into a new ski and gain an appreciation for the value of a new ski. 2) The process of designing and building plus discussions amongst fellow skiers will result in a more educated consumer. It might be something a manufacturer would want to embrace and possibly sponsor.

[RazorRoss3]

I might try that but at the end of the day I'm pretty sure I have a lot more to fix on top of the ski and with just the fin and bindings there are more than enough variables for me.

[skiray]

I think its a great idea. Coordinating it with my calendar is the maybe.

[rab]

Going off what @gt2003‌ said. If whoever was doing this workshop had an original ski they designed and let everyone ski a production version of it. Everyone could be given an non rideable version of that ski made cheaply from low grade foam and a small amount of fiberglass. This nonridable ski could be their plug ski to make their mold from. The plug ski could cost very little compared to the whole program and people could then alter the shape of their plug ski before making their mold. You wouldn't get to choose any ski you want but no manufactures would sue the program and I feel that people that would pay for this are more interested in the experience and pride from skiing something they made rather than having the perfect ski.

 

[bbirlew]

The wooden kayak building world has a version of this where you participate in a week long class and end up with a boat. However, it is the kayak designers who host the classes and you build one of their designs with their tools/materials/instruction.

 

I'd love somthing like this for waterskiing, but couldn't commit the time at this stage in my life. Hopefully by the time I'm at that stage someone will make it available.

I'm imagining custom graphics too!

 

I've already got spare cedar/fiberglass/carbon sitting around from my last kayak build that is earmarked for a surf or wakesurf board, but my free time is limited now with a little one and another on the way. The only way I see that project getting off the ground is convincing my wife that I'm building it for my daughter!!!

(Or maybe some cedar beginner waterskis!)

[eleeski]

@MCskiFreak‌ is completely right. Copying skis is wrong on many levels. If you want another production ski, just buy one.

 

So @Horton‌ 's plan is flawed in the details. But the basic idea is great. Perhaps the build should have a few molds ready and some skis to demo. Chose the one you like best and go build it. Adapt or tune the build to make the ski that best suits you. Enjoy and learn from the process.

 

This is a common practice in the aircraft homebuilding. People love it and the planes get properly built. Could be fun to bring it to waterskiing.

 

Eric

[skialex]

It's a great idea, if this from “what if” becomes a real plan counts me in. I do a lot of modifications and repairs as a hobby mostly on my equipment. I know building a ski is a different world and I would really love to be able to build my ski and experiment with the design!

 

Alex

 

[AdamCord]

From a feasibility standpoint I think what @skoot1123 and others recommended would make the most sense. There are a lot of tools and additional equipment that go into properly building a ski so even if you had your own mold it would be tough to take it home and use it.

 

You could ride the available skis, decide on the one you like best, then go build it either as is or with recommended modifications, usually flex or rocker changes. Believe me flex and rocker changes make a big enough difference. Goode would do well with a program like that since they have a lot of ski choices and a lake nearby. Radar too possibly?

[ForrestGump]

I don't think you can compare splashing a ski to splashing something like a boat hull. In a boat hull, the shape is pretty much all of the design and intellectual property. With a ski, the silhouette is only a portion of the design. Some say it's not even the most important part. You also have the layup which leads to torsional and longitudinal flex, and the rocker. Especially if you have an idea for a change to the original, as a lot of manufacturers do, I see no problem with it. I'm guessing Cord and Coldwell didn't start with nothing. They more than likely started with some other ski and then cut and modified it, too.

[webbdawg99]

It's the Indian, not the arrow.

[bbirlew]

@webbdawg99‌,

Sure, I don't think anyone is arguing against that, but you can:

1) have lots of fun

2) build something unique & cool

3) probably learn something about your own skiing.

[skiray]

@ShaneH‌ is right. The shape is just a starting point.

 

Two other points:

I'm not interested in starting a ski company. At best, I might build a ski for me.

 

This would be a bigger issue in my mind if I could call HO or Radar and order a custom flex/rocker. That's not their business model. So if I want a customized ski, I've got to build it.

[Chef23]

With the caveat that I am not an IP attorney I don't think you would have an IP issue with using a ski you own and purchased to create something new for your own purposes. If you decided to use that as the basis to create a new ski company and go into business you might have an issue. However if you started with a basic shape and changed the rocker, thickness, layup or something else I don't think you would have an IP issue. Skis look largely similar with minor variations I think it would be a difficult position to defend that your ski is shaped like my ski.