Big Dawg changes the rules.

[Wish]

Well, it just got tougher to make it to the finals in the BD series. Is this for the better? What say you?

 

2015 Rules & Regulations

 

An all-new points system has been introduced for the 2015 Big Dawg World Tour. Each skier’s top two finishes will be used to calculate their cumulative score for the overall Big Dawg Ranking List. The top 40 skiers from this list will be invited to the Finals in October. Please see the official 2015 Big Dawg World Tour Rules and Regulations document below for more information.

 

http://nautiquebigdawg.com/rules/

 

 

 

[ToddL]

Looks like those dawgs gotta travel (ski more than 1 stop) to make the finals, eh? Might be tough for skiers in remote countries where only 1 stop happens on their continent.

[gjohnson]

Who cares about a rule change that effects 30-50 people.

[Razorskier1]

I guess that means my dream of winning a stop and making the finals is over.

[RichardDoane]

it's actually a rule improvement when you think about it, now if you ski at a lower level but attend more than one event, you're chances of skiing in October's final are greatly improved IMO

[Wish]

@richarddoane‌ .....wait..what? ...(Scratching head)

[ToddL]

@Wish - his logic is:

- lower skilled BD who has money and time to travel and can ski in 2 or more events will beat out a higher skilled BD who is only able to ski in 1 event.

[ToddL]

I really expected this thread to somehow address night skiing and distractions.

[bishop8950]

Along with Greg Badal and Marc Shaw I sit on a committee with Correct Craft where we debate possible changes to rules, format, location, schedule etc. I think we have good discussions that will lead to good results.

 

In this case, one of the specific objectives is to create more participation incentives for the qualifying events. Exactly as @ToddL said, if you ski in multiple events you could earn an invite to the finals over a skier that skied only one event. The committee discussed different approaches and options and believe this is the best thing to try. We look forward to seeing what impact it has for the 2015 season. Only a few skiers last year went to multiple events. Most like myself went to one and I planned to qualify for the finals in one event. Next year, it will be more difficult to do that and how much more difficult will depend on how many skiers commit to multiple events.

[RichardDoane]

I'm hoping that the night skiing finals is a thing of the past. " Learn from your mistakes and improve upon them", is the cliche that comes to mind.

[skidawg]

It is a bit of a handicap for those w limited travel budgets!

[skierjp]

Night skiing has always been a huge success when it was held at Okeeheelee.

[bishop8950]

@skidawg I hear you. I personally like the option of earing the finals invite in one event. We can all place bets on how it will turn out in 2015 but its unclear. My guess is some but not a lot will ski 2 events. That will push the "single score cut" up. So if you ski one event and you make the top 8 or even better top 4 I am guessing you will still get to the finals on one score. Last year if you made any cut or were one of the first guys to miss the cut you got it. It really depends on the number of multi-event skiers

 

[klindy]

And the long laundry list of "exempt" skiers? They are automatically qualified for the finals or what exactly?

[RichardDoane]

@klindy - "protected skiers" have a score of 6 at -39, and are listed on the website

-

http://nautiquebigdawg.com/2015-protected-skiers/

 

 

Entry Procedure:

 

*Invitation Only Registration Period: From 1/15/15 to 2/15/15, skiers with an IWWF average (as of 12/1/14) of 6 @10.75 (-39’), including unadjusted scores for those skiers who are now age eligible from 36 mph divisions, are invited to register. Note: A skier who meets these criteria but does not submit registration during this period will not be protected during the Open Registration period. The list of protected skiers can be found on nautiquebigdawg.com.

*Open Registration Period: From 2/1/15 onwards, any skier who meets the age and professional status qualification may submit registration. Once all slots are filled, remaining entries submitted will be put on a waiting list.

Please refer to nautiquebigdawg.com for more information on registration and entry procedure for each qualifier and finals, as it may be different for individual events.

Refund/Cancellation Policy: No refund for cancellation will be given unless slot is filled. Waiting list entries will be refunded if the skier does not compete.

*PLEASE NOTE: Entries can be sent in at any time regardless of means (electronic or paper). Non-protected entries will be prioritized after March 1st, 2015 based on postmark or electronic time stamp.

[RichardDoane]

there's a grey area of between Feb 1 and Feb 15 for some reason which will probably not be an issue, we didn't completely fill BD Broho until July last season

[klindy]

@richarddoane‌ or @bishop8950‌ ok with the new points system how does the "protected score of 6@39" work? Is that then a score of 6@39 for one tournament or more (all?)? Does that mean if they enter one prelim and ski another 6@39 that they now have two scores for tfeir average?

 

I like the new scoring system too (not that I have a Dawg in the fight). I just wonder how it works.

 

Likewise, how are the night rounds ever record level tournaments. End course video would have to be worthless.

[EricKelley]

Personally, I think the prize money is low. We are offering more than twice the prize money without any significant sponsorship. The Big Dawg has evolved into a very exclusive event for skiers at the pinnacle of their sport. The prize money is not at all, "what it's all about" but for sure it is low with all the sponsors they have.

I like the new scoring system. It will ensure high level attendance at the U.S. stops. The Big Dawg has been a great thing thing for us older slalom skiers and it continues to evolve and improve over time. Thanks to Greg Davis and Nautique for their commitment to the series. Kevin sounds like the committee came up with some good changes. I like the later October final with the Open.

[Kelvin]

@Eric Kelley, for the prelim stops the LOC is responsible for paying all the prize money out of the entry fees and any local sponsors they can drum up. Nautique provides nothing but the name for those events. At least that is how it was a few years ago.

[MattP]

Intersting note the BD Championships will be held in conjunction with the US Open. The finals the last few years have been held during the US Nationals which I feel like there was some push back to bring the US Open back to national and take the BD out or have both but whatever. The Open is a CC sponsored event. But I feel as though having the BD along side the US Open diminishes the accomplishments of the Open skiers as well as their legitimacy to have a event to themselves.

[RichardDoane]

@klindy - the protected skier list just gives them a head start on event registration, after that time period it's by postmark

[EricKelley]

@Kelvin You are correct about the LOC and the prize money. Nautique should be putting up some of the prize money. They are getting pretty good money from their other sponsors, i.e. Obrien and others.

[mshaw200]

@Wish‌ - The rules change doesn't make it harder, it actually makes it a bit easier in my opinion.

 

@MattP‌ - I'm more afraid of the opposite, that the BD Finals will sort of get lost in the mix of the open skiers at the US Open. I don't think this will diminish the open skiers accomplishments at all

 

@skidawg‌ - It certainly changes things but it doesn't mean you can't go to one event and qualify. I ran this system based on last years placements in the qualifiers and 23 of the top 40 only went to 1 event. That will probably change a little this year with the new system but I bet there are more then a few skiers in 2015 that will only go to one event and still make the finals.

 

This is a big change from the way the Big Dawg has been done in the past. But, if you think about it a little differently, I'm not aware of any sport that has a series of events culminating in a "final" championship event where you can only go to one event and qualify for the finals. On the PGA Tour, even if you win an event that won't qualify you to play in the FedEx Championships at the end of the season, Motorcross, Nascar, even all major sports have a regular season before the playoffs. It's just different. Honestly, I think that this opens the door for a lot of skiers

 

Just my 2 cents.

[ToddL]

@mshaw200 - that's what I liked about the old Pro Tour days. Repeated tour stops with the pros battling it out to see who would be on top at that stop. That's a fan-supported format where you repeatedly follow your favorite competitor. Maybe Pro Skiers need to have an assigned number and then bibs littered with their sponsors just like a NASCAR vehicle. ;-)

[Razorskier1]

I think it is great that the BD keeps testing the formula and trying new things. If I can hold of aging long enough, maybe I'll even get to ski in one someday.

[RichardDoane]

@razorskier1 - send us an entry, the July event at the Broho will be worth the trip. Bring @6balls‌ and @RazorRoss3‌ , and ski the class C event at the Ski Park the Thursday prior

 

http://www.usawaterski.org/rankings/View-TournamentsHQ.asp?pvar=TourInfo&TourID=15W154&olrds=enabled&rg=1&sl=on&tr=on&ju=on&wb=&ws=&wu=&bf=&kb=&hy=&sExclude=

[The_MS]

Kinda like the INT league.

[Wish]

Hmmm.. worth asking I think. Of the BD that post here... Who can make it to 2 events? Especially when 2 are out of the country.

[MillerTime38]

@Mshaw200 The only door this opens is for skiers who can attend multiple events. How many of those sports that you mentioned let you qualify for the championship after competing in only half the events?

 

Also, think about the events outside the US. I don't have the stats but I remember that the scores are usually lower (overall) at these events but the point system will be equal?

 

[dave2ball]

The BD has become such an elite event I don't see any advantage of accumulative scores. You are still going to be able to run 39 majority of the time just to be in the mix. You are still going to see the same top 8 in the finals. The guy who just makes the finals is still going to be out first round unless something unusual happens. I may be wrong but we will see.

[Wish]

Hmmm... Agree that the elite or best win or get the top 8 but just about any old guy can enter I believe. Yep on the 39 but all the others have a good time from what I've seen. And we have all seen top seeds get knocked out for various "anything can happen" reasons in just about every BD. I believe @mshaw200‌ can attest to that. Do wish it didn't take such a high score to get onto the H to H but the level of skill just keeps going up each year.

[disland]

There should be a Div 1 and a Div 2 Big Dawg

 

Ok Only kidding

[bishop8950]

@wish Skiing the Big Dawg H2H is the most exciting thing I have ever done and likely will ever do water skiing. A H2H is fun no matter how its set up (handicap am for example). But on that stage against those guys the Big Dawg H2H is an awesome experience. A few years ago both @Sethski and I made the cut in the finals at Okee. We both lost in the first round in match ups that I think we could have won. Right after he said to me "the hardest part of loosing in the H2H is that it stops there and you cant keep going. Its so much fun you don't want to stop!" and that is so true.

[skierjp]

I can think of a minimum of 10 Big Dawg skiers that will ski Broho and Okeeheelee, and 5 or 6 of them will also go to Rathburns.

[skidawg]

For me to make 2 qualifiers is impossible. Two kids and a wife that ski tourneys trumphs my personal desire to travel, unless it's an affordable family affair. It will be interesting

[RichardDoane]

@skidawg - bring the wife and kids, a ski ride at Radar lake is calling their name whilst in the Seattle area

[lpskier]

If the US open returns to Lake Ivanhoe, will the Big Dawg final be on a four buoy course?

[skidawg]

@richarddoane‌, will prolly bring the wife and make a trip out of it! Gonna need a few sets on the cool H2O

[bishop8950]

@lpskier the details regarding the Big Dawg Final and the US Open for that matter are still being planned.

[Wish]

If it is at Ivanhoe, it WILL be a 4 ball. Alternative is just up the road 9mn away. Central Florida Fair Grounds and Parks. It is very well known as you can imagine and they have everything for an event like US Open and a BD. Used to ski tournaments there yrs ago. Great viewing and 6 ball course can be tucked so close to the straight shore line, you'd feel the spray.

[skiboat38]

@Bishop8950....exciting for the competitors and exciting for the spectators. The first time at Nationals I was amazed how many people lined the shore to enjoy the tournament. When was the last time so many people gathered at Nationals to watch one event???? The In His Wakes Bikini Pro's vs Joe's had the same atmosphere, there were people out there until after 1AM both nights enjoying waterskiing....that does not happen a lot. My opinion......

[mshaw200]

@wish last year 16 skiers went to 2 or more events.

 

@MillerTime38‌ I ran last year's qualifiers using this points system and 24 of the top 40 only went to 1 event. Granted with this new rule more people might opt to go to 2 events but we'll have to wait and see. As for the scores being different between the US and International stops, there was a decent size difference between the MS and Broho stops. In MS last year it took a combined score of 211 to make the sweet 16 (a 3 & 4 39), in Broho it was 204.5 (a 2 @ 39 and a 4.5 @ 38 for a .25 @ 39 average). Would you agree that the difference in those 2 stops was sizable? Do you think those 2 people shouldn't get the same amount of points? I won't disagree that the cut to make the Sweet 16 is traditionally lower at International stops versus US Stops but of the Europeans that usually qualify most of them don't make the trip. I would venture to say that will be even more true this year with the Finals being in October.

 

[RichardDoane]

@ob - it was unfortunate that our Broho weather kinda sucked that weekend in July, but it could've been considerably worse if it had been raining....it is in Seattle, BTW, glad to see your still lurking at least....

[MillerTime38]

@Mshaw200 as OB pointed out the wind played a huge factor in the Broho scores so we can assume under the same conditions for round 1 the scores would have been more like a 3 @39 which would not be that sizeable

 

 

[mshaw200]

I guess only time will really tell but I truly feel like international skiers won't take up as many spots in the Finals as you think as I don't think they will actually come.

I also feel strongly that this new points system will open the door for a lot of skiers that are in the low to mid 39 category.

[MillerTime38]

@Mshaw200 I don't have a dog in the fight as I still ski M2, but I see this phasing out the working family man that may only be able to attend one event (of the two total in the US) and give an advantage to the guy that has alot of money and time to travel all over the globe to qualify. What is next, they will require everyone to attend one international event to qualify?

[mshaw200]

@MillerTime38 Nautique still wants the best skiers in the Finals however they are also interested in rewarding skiers for supporting the series. If I'm still on the committee next year then we'll review what occurred in 2015 and look at tweaking it if it doesn't produce the desired results. This is new and different way of approaching the Big Dawg series, until the season is complete we (you, me and everyone else) really has no idea how this will impact the series. Last year only 16 skiers went to multiple events, there's no way to know if that will change this year. Maybe it's less maybe it's more, who knows. I think it's cool of Nautique to look at how to reward skiers for supporting their events. Qualifier hosts will appreciate it as well if it helps to fill up their events. If Broho gets 45 skiers this year versus the 37 last year, I'm sure they'll appreciate the extra $1,600 in entry fees they'll get.