Baller swc5150 Posted April 13, 2015 Baller Share Posted April 13, 2015 So my wife gave me the green light to get a new ski today. Historically I've bought the top end ski of whatever brand I went with. I'm thinking about a Vapor Lithium, but being realistic, I wonder if I really need such a high end stick this time around? I'm 42, ski at 34mph, and will likely never get enough course time going forward to run deeper than -35 (new baby girl at home). Should I still pursue a Vapor or would something like a Senate be sufficient ? Also thinking about a Helix, being a D3 guy, but there's something about the Radar products that intrigue me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Chef23 Posted April 13, 2015 Baller Share Posted April 13, 2015 I would say why not buy a high end ski. If you are running into -35 now you are a very good skier and won't be over your head. If you are going to be on it for 3-4 years why save $300. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 6balls Posted April 13, 2015 Baller Share Posted April 13, 2015 You will get a zillion opinions here...but I would go D3. Even their highest end skis are user friendly and position forgiving but still perform top-shelf for those who can get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller swc5150 Posted April 13, 2015 Author Baller Share Posted April 13, 2015 D3's have served me well over the years. I may still go that route, but I think I need to test ride a Vapor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller swc5150 Posted April 13, 2015 Author Baller Share Posted April 13, 2015 I'm still very happy with my X5 Pro, so I'm excited to experience what updated skis are like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller rawly Posted April 13, 2015 Baller Share Posted April 13, 2015 Why even start the thread ? You know you need the Vapor. The wife gave you the Green light , so get last years ski. Unless of course you like this years colors better. Very nice ski for all line lengths. Radar got this one right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller swc5150 Posted April 13, 2015 Author Baller Share Posted April 13, 2015 There are one or two '14 Vapors on SIA I've been eyeing up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 6balls Posted April 13, 2015 Baller Share Posted April 13, 2015 I'm no longer on a X5 Pro...but my ski partner is on mine. I had issues with my last ski transition and went back to the X5 Pro a few times that season before dialing in my current ride. Was like we didn't miss a beat right up to PB's out of the box on the X5 Pro. If she's not worn out that ski is well capable of short-line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ToddL Posted April 13, 2015 Baller Share Posted April 13, 2015 Vapor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller swc5150 Posted April 13, 2015 Author Baller Share Posted April 13, 2015 My X5 actually has very little use, due to some life circumstances, but it rocked right out of the box. It just isn't every day the wife says go get a new ski! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller GOODESkier Posted April 13, 2015 Baller Share Posted April 13, 2015 People would wonder if I didn't say you should try a GOODE....... you have nothing to lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller schafer Posted April 13, 2015 Baller Share Posted April 13, 2015 vapor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted April 13, 2015 Administrators Share Posted April 13, 2015 @swc5150 at 35 off you want the Vapor not the Senate. I can't seem to make progress on the H2 review because it's bad luck (sprained ankle and now the flu) not if you want to stay D3 I'm pretty sure that's a solid choice. Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller swc5150 Posted April 13, 2015 Author Baller Share Posted April 13, 2015 @GOODESkier I did like my 9100 way back when. The D3 just ended up being easier for to ski on for some reason. I think I'm going to order an H2 today, since I can just swap the bindings off my X5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporting Member Than_Bogan Posted April 13, 2015 Supporting Member Share Posted April 13, 2015 A bit redundant with the above but anyhow: I think the "too much ski for me" issue really only comes up for folks working at -15 and maybe a touch of -22, and dialing in form. Some really high end skis can hold you back at that point, by being a little less stable that you might like. After that, the advantages of the top-end skis definitely come into play. You don't "need" them, I suppose, but then again 99% of us are just doing this for fun and so none of us really a "need" a ski to do anything. But running more buoys tends to be fun :). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Chef23 Posted April 13, 2015 Baller Share Posted April 13, 2015 @swc5150 I don't think you can go wrong with the H2. They probably will work with you if you buy it from them and want to try a Quest as well. I think they used to have a deal where they would send you both and you could send back the one you didn't want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Jordan Posted April 13, 2015 Baller Share Posted April 13, 2015 I have not been on a whole bunch of the news skis, but I grew up on small, skinny, stiff top of the line slalom skis. Maheraja's, Taperflex Apex, HOs, Goodes etc and so on throughout the years. Last summer I bought a green Vapor....it is a much easier ski to ride than the skis of old....wider, more stable, better off-side AND somehow faster than the skis of yester year... I honestly think that the Vapor is so user friendly that it would be good for long line skiers. So go ahead, try one....you will love it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Jody_Seal Posted April 13, 2015 Baller_ Share Posted April 13, 2015 I watched a gentleman with a arm sling (not so good a shoulder) run 34 mph and most of 28 off on a Radar Strada yesterday. Have seen him run mid 32 off in the past on the same setup. The Strada is also a very forgiving ski and there are many of them in the used market. I too second the Vapor,,, If I can ride it anyone can!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller bishop8950 Posted April 13, 2015 Baller Share Posted April 13, 2015 Demo for sure. It's the only way to know. If you try D3 ride both at least for fun. Send one or both back if you don't like them. It's fun to try skis and feel the difference between them and it helps you get what is best for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippin_2 Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I am with Bishop - Demo, Demo, Demo... My skiing is much like yours, love it but not enough water time to go where others are going or have gone. Facing this fact alone requires us to ask why buy newer or better? Or - "Should I pay for coaching, ski school, ski vacation - new boat?" Should you buy? YES - not because you're wife gave you the "green light"... because "When was the last time you're wife steered you in the wrong direction?" nuff said What should you buy? YOU'RE SKI - My experience leads me to highly recommend the demo programs that are offered. Demoing is actually a fun process in itself. Although you too may find several skis you like as I did after testing, you will naturally lean toward YOU'RE SKI. It will also give you a comfort when writing that check. my experience in short... I skied 4 times last summer (boo, yuck, what's wrong with you?) . Last fall I demoed a half dozen skis and bought a new 2015 with boots. The new skis are not only better, they are way more FUN! I ski for the shear pleasure of skiing. The brand and model of the ski I like should not be as important to you as which ski you will like. Just so you know, I would have been happy with any of the skis I demoed, however by trying several I was able to easily pick a favorite. I skied more on demos last fall than I did all year on my own ski. Although, I may have tossed the towel on skiing with the 'big boys', I have not tossed the towel on skiing and I do not plan to anytime soon. And by skiing I mean chasing buoys. It's just that much fun, there are many other benefits but because I enjoy it is at the top of the list for me. here's to riding my new ski soon. Haven't ridden it yet? boo, yuck, what's wrong with you? good luck and have fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller swc5150 Posted April 13, 2015 Author Baller Share Posted April 13, 2015 @zippin_2 Now I have to ask...what ski did you go with? I'm testing a Vapor, H2 and perhaps a Quest. I know this hasn't been the most interesting thread you've all ever read, but I'm very appreciative of your advice...or justification for a top end stick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller GOODESkier Posted April 13, 2015 Baller Share Posted April 13, 2015 Gotta say again, 4 years ago when I was looking at getting into skiing seriously and taking on the course, I demo-ed HO, Radar, D3 and GOODE. I owe it to a guy skiing at a club in Canada that said something to the effect of, "you might as well see what it has to offer before you discount the benefit." You might fall in love with the characteristics of a ski you have never tried before. I am always thinking, huh wonder what that ski feels like? Wonder what the best attributes of that ski is? Could I get a better stack with that ski? Wonder if that ski could help me ski more technically correct? Every little advantage counts. You should try them all! Have a respected skier in the boat to watch. Get the ski set up to a place where it skis well or atleast a known starting point. If you are going to spend $1500 - $2000 you might as well get the ski that compliments your style and technique the best! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 6balls Posted April 13, 2015 Baller Share Posted April 13, 2015 The hard part sometimes is having the time to really demo effectively. I know I don't have the water time required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller markn Posted April 14, 2015 Baller Share Posted April 14, 2015 Mapple series T-1 or T-2, dependent upon your style. If unable to ski at the Mapple Training Center, you can get fin adjustment advice via e-mail. Fast, forgiving, well built and outstanding customer service and support. MWN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ lpskier Posted April 14, 2015 Baller_ Share Posted April 14, 2015 I have pulled and coached a skier the last three days as he has demoed skis on Orlando. He is a solid 32 off skier, recently returning from a three week water ski trip in Chile, so he is in shape and skiing well. He is coming off a Goode 9700 that I did not suit him well in my opinion. He is LFF, 6', 200 pounds. His upper body moves around a bit on the ski, meaning that his weight distribution is variable. If you have a super quiet upper body position, your experience may be different. He first tried a 66" Lithium. I would have preferred to see him on a 68". I thought the Lithium was erratic and at times dangerous for him. We got numbers from Matt Rini and reset the fin. It was WAY out of wack by 20/1000 in DFT and length. The ski was much better after the reset, but still erratic and way over turny on the 2/4 side. The front binding was set at 29 3/4, which I though was way forward, but that seems to be the recommended placement. In fairness to Radar, this fellow really should not have been on a 66" in any event, although (I think) his Goode was a 66. A ride on a 68 may have been a different story. We next got an H2 in a 67". This ski was much better with a nice on side turn and a bit of an over turn on the off side. Again, I recommended a 68" (later confirmed by Seth Stisher), but Perfski's 68" demo is out with a different skier. They do have a 68" Helix that we'll try tomorrow. According to Seth, if you like the Helix, you'll love the H2, but not necessarily the other way around. He described the H2 as a more user friendly version of the Helix. I ran an up the rope to 5@35 on the Helix last summer the one and only time I tried it and was very favorably impressed with the ski. Just for fun, I put my demoing friend on my 2014 68" Prophecy (using my Fogmans instead of his Reflex bindings) for a third set this afternoon, and frankly I thought that worked the best for him, but we'll have to wait a few more weeks to get a 68" GT to try, and my young friend may want to make a purchasing decision and move on before then. Anyway, my two cents is that from what I have seen in the last three days, I prefer the H2 over the Lithium, and the (now discontinued) Prophecy over them both. Lpskier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller MattP Posted April 14, 2015 Baller Share Posted April 14, 2015 @lpskier Sounds like he needs to be on the right size skis! Also that binding measurement for the 66" Vapor sounds way off. Should be closer to 29.125 +1/8 for RTP skiers. The 29.75 sounds closer to the 67" binding settings. That .625 difference would make a ski do some erratic things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skihard Posted April 14, 2015 Baller Share Posted April 14, 2015 I demo'd 2 different Radar skis. I PB'd much farther down the line than I ever have. Look what just showed up at my place on Saturday! No question the right ski for me. I'm 5' 9" 203 pounds - 68" Lithium Vapor - LOVE IT!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skihard Posted April 14, 2015 Baller Share Posted April 14, 2015 Oh ya the gray one in the bottom of the bottom of the second picture just got sent back today. It was a Graphite Vapor. Good ski too but not a Lithium!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Chef23 Posted April 14, 2015 Baller Share Posted April 14, 2015 @lpskier I don't think that is the best comparison because the only ski the guy skied on that was the right size was your Prophecy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller bassfooter Posted April 14, 2015 Baller Share Posted April 14, 2015 @skihard - I like your ski. Looks just like mine, except an inch longer. I'm skiing better than ever after only 8 - 10 sets on it, coming off a 2011 X7. Have fun! @swc5150 - I think you should at least try one of these using factory settings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller swc5150 Posted April 14, 2015 Author Baller Share Posted April 14, 2015 I've also decided to let the water warm up before testing. It's another conversation, but I don't think 40 degree water is optimum for testing. More great insight too. That what makes this site so awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller aupatking Posted April 14, 2015 Baller Share Posted April 14, 2015 Gotta say a correctly sized, and boot positioned Vapor, and I'd be really surprised to hear the word "erratic". I just picked up a 2014 67 to spend my rehab time on. Rossi fin numbers and boot 1/8 back of standard (reflex plate wanted to be there) and it feels great, like a trusted, well tuned stick. I've only played with it at -22 and -28, and slow until I get my strength and and form back. No, none, zero erratic anything. I loved my buddies 66.75 Goode N1 before the ankle break, but at my current speed, I'm too big for my 65.25. Wrong size = wrong ski. @Horton it smells like a green fig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodeski123 Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 @GOODESkier I agree I love my goode xt. its very smooth and quick but once you get to the buoy it slows right down, I love it. I found instently that I don't have to load and put in as much effort when I cut , the only thing is is that im only 12/100 lbs, I only slalom into deep 28 off and I was trying a new sized ski so that may have reasoning for the effortless cutting. Perhaps you should go for the xtm. ive noticed that the 34 mph short line skiers and big dawg skiers go with the xtm, as it sits higher in the water and at 34 sometimes you just need that little bit more speed through the wake which gets you nice and wide. I find goode skis a very consistent, smooth, effortless ski. this is just my opinion though @sws5150 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodeski123 Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Also testing skis are a good way of finding your perfect match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller rawly Posted April 14, 2015 Baller Share Posted April 14, 2015 @swc5150 we would have to write you a 5150 citation if you were to seriously test skis in 40* water. That is not an other conversation, would be crazy man. Get back into the swing of things , get to where you were last fall , then test em out. Remember that we have on and off days as well , so find a shop with a performance guarantee (Performance) that sells the short list you get from us , and ride them for a while before you pick . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller swc5150 Posted April 14, 2015 Author Baller Share Posted April 14, 2015 @rawly Agreed, that would be a 5150 move testing skis right now! I almost jumped the gun, being that it was 75 degrees on Sunday, and the wife said order away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller swc5150 Posted April 14, 2015 Author Baller Share Posted April 14, 2015 @skihard What do you find different about the Lithium versus the Graphite? Just speed, or any stability factors in play? I'm also kind of curious about the Alloy compared to the other two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodeski123 Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 @swc5150 I recommend to choose a brand and then just choose the best and the top end ski of that brand. you are at shortline=good so you need the best possible ski you can get. Im not sure if its different where you live but in Australia here everyone who is in 12 or 13/35 or 32 they have the top end ski of a certain brand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller swc5150 Posted April 14, 2015 Author Baller Share Posted April 14, 2015 I'm testing a Lithium for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller eddie_roberts_jr Posted April 14, 2015 Baller Share Posted April 14, 2015 At 6' and 200 pounds a 66" Vapor Lithium is way too small and front boot at 29.75 is way too far forward. That size ski with the bindings that far forward for this gentleman sounds dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller dchristman Posted April 14, 2015 Baller Share Posted April 14, 2015 @horton sprained ankle skiing? If so, what binding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted April 14, 2015 Administrators Share Posted April 14, 2015 @dchristman I was wearing Oakley flip flops Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller dchristman Posted April 14, 2015 Baller Share Posted April 14, 2015 Yeah, not much control with those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller dchristman Posted April 14, 2015 Baller Share Posted April 14, 2015 They should release pretty easily, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller gt2003 Posted April 15, 2015 Baller Share Posted April 15, 2015 I think maybe @Horton was taking the cover off the Centurion again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippin_2 Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 @swc5150 vapor tested Q45, Helix,T1, T2, A3. H2 and V-TYPE were not available. I really liked the Q45 too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skihard Posted April 15, 2015 Baller Share Posted April 15, 2015 @swc5150 the difference in the skis was major. While I am far from the level of many others on this site both ski's have helped me improve to levels I haven't been at before. The Graphite Vapor was heavier and rode well into 28 off for me. When I put the Lithum ski on my first 28 off felt like 22 off and no effort. Speed and it turned on rails with stability. It's lighter and accelerates quicker out of the turn. From load point to edge change was less work. I have ran my PB of 3 @ 32 on it and I know that I will achieve 32 on it soon. My old ski took me to 28 a couple times but the Lithium is taking me there almost every set now without a whole lot of work. Just my 2 cents! But again listen to the guys on here who are good skiers! Hope that helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller swc5150 Posted April 15, 2015 Author Baller Share Posted April 15, 2015 Thanks @skihard It sounds like your skiing around the same level as me, if you're at 34mph anyway. When the stars align I can touch -35. That's great input you've provided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ lpskier Posted April 16, 2015 Baller_ Share Posted April 16, 2015 As a follow up to my post of April 13, my friend settled on the new Mapple Torque. @Chef23 and @MattP As far as demoing the right size ski is concerned, you can only demo what is available. If you are only here for a week, you may not have time to wait for the right ski to come back in the shop. @eddie_roberts_jr , thanks for confirming my strong suspicion that the front binder was way off on the Lithium. Lpskier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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