Administrators Horton Posted July 20, 2015 Administrators Share Posted July 20, 2015 I am considering a project for the web site where I take an old boat like a 91 MC that cost $3,500 and update it to be good enough to be a daily training boat. The goal is to get a boat that cost $15,000 or maybe $20,000 and is almost as good as a boat that cost 3 or 4 times as much. Is this interesting? Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ALPJr Posted July 20, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 20, 2015 Do it. I miss our 92 MC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Orlando76 Posted July 20, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 20, 2015 '91? I thought you said old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Onside135 Posted July 20, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 20, 2015 You should be able to do this for significantly less than $20-25K. Some folks will always find reasons it ain't as good as a $60K boat, but personally I sleep better with that $40K in my bank account. I guess I'm biased because I own and train behind a TSC1 Nautique re-powered with a PCM motor and Zero Off. Best thing going... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Lovell Posted July 20, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 20, 2015 Very interested as I am trying to make sound decision when replace our even older boat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted July 20, 2015 Author Administrators Share Posted July 20, 2015 @Onside135 you are just ahead of the curve Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller gregy Posted July 20, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 20, 2015 I ski regularly on a 93 Prostar 205. That things ski great. I've seen were people put hooks on the back or plates to reduce spray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Ilivetoski Posted July 20, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 20, 2015 This sounds amazing.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller rockdog Posted July 20, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 20, 2015 Would love to see this happen and what the costs will be to do so. I'd be keen to hear what high level skiers who wouldn't usually ski behind something like this (or haven't for a really long time) have to say about the performance of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted July 20, 2015 Author Administrators Share Posted July 20, 2015 Ok this thread has been up an hour and I think I already have my answer. I will start working on this. Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Ilivetoski Posted July 20, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 20, 2015 This is really something good for people right out of college. Not have to put all $15-20k in at once (can't afford that right out of school) but still have something to ski on. Gradually make it a better boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Mateo_Vargas Posted July 20, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 20, 2015 A guy in our club put a PCM 5.0 and Zero Off in his '91 - '94 MasterCraft. I think the Harsch's did their MC with the same hull this spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ozski Posted July 20, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 20, 2015 I'm all in and living the old boat dream myself - 10 year old 196 converted to ZO and I'm happy. I won't ski any better behind a 200 or any other new boat... This is a good project Horton, Nautique or something else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ALPJr Posted July 20, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 20, 2015 A 91 - 94 MC redone with the 94 pro- tour hull mod/notch in spray relief flute that knocked down the spray for the 38/39 skiers would be a hard boat to beat. And one if the best boats for slower speeds and 15 -28 off skiers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Stevie Boy Posted July 20, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 20, 2015 It's nice to have a really nice boat but for every day use the Boat is a tool, what it looks like, what colour it is, state of the interior, it does not matter, if it's got speed control, the required amount of grunt and tracks nicely, it's good enough. Could even start a new trend "Rat Boats" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller BCM Posted July 20, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 20, 2015 I am looking into doing something similar within the next year or so. I have 3 thoughts. 1) Separate parts and labor costs. I would likely do 99.9% of labor myself(including motor rebuilds) while others may do very little. 2) I would shoot for a lower end cost. $20k will get you an early 2000s CC. I am looking at under $10k (boat+parts+$0labor). Maybe $10k for a good ski ride, then extra for things like nice seats and shower? 3) I would shoot for a solid motor with z-box. ZO would be great, but most people looking for a basic boat on a limited budget would probably go the z-box route, at least that is the route I would likely go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller oldjeep Posted July 20, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 20, 2015 With that kind of budget you could really go crazy. http://greatlakesskipper.com/mastercraft-zf-63-iv-ilmor-mv8-5-7l-inboard-marine-boat-engine-transmission-013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E_T Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 @Horton I think you need to outline what you want to do before you start. If you want to fresh it up and add Z box or repower and use ZO Update your original motor Throttle Body Injection $1800 or Multi-Port Fuel Injection $3000 Z-Box-$1500 Buy a DBW motor PCM Ex343 $9000 PCM Trans $2000 ZO-$1600 BTW I just rebuilt the motor in my tug this past year, now pumping 360hp and 420 ft/lb, Later this year doing Multi Port Fuel Injection and Z Box. Drop me a line if you to talk details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Jody_Seal Posted July 20, 2015 Baller_ Share Posted July 20, 2015 Cost break down provided that the donor boat is clean and un molested! Non cat Engine 5.7 with adapter hardware with out Transmission landed on the floor no tax $9,580, with series 80Trans add $2,500, Add another $4,500 if you want a 6 liter Zero Off $1600 Now this is where the unknowns start! 1. Will the engine fit under the older motor box with out modification??? 2. Will the engine frame or stringer accept the new engine with out modification? 3. re routing fuel and electrical. 4. Will the exhaust accommodate the new engine with out modifiction. 5. Condition of under water gear. It does not make a lot of sense to convert with out replacing sloppy rudder port and shaft strut bushing. 6. Steering cable? 7. Is the Transmission being utilized up to the task with out re-build? 8. Other unknowns, the Can of worms that alway's seem to manifest themselves. 9. The $5,000 in labor to do the re-power and the above work if the owner can not DYI! 10. upholstery interior ? 11. Gauges? 12. ?????????? Reminder the SBC non Cat marine engine may be on it's last couple of years of availability and then the engine cost exponent nearly doubles. Keep in mind that the above cost break down would be at a typical shop/dealer at market value of parts and $120.00 per hour.. And I still may be on the low side for other shops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted July 20, 2015 Author Administrators Share Posted July 20, 2015 @E_T I am considering a transwarp flux drive Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted July 20, 2015 Author Administrators Share Posted July 20, 2015 @Jody_Seal the issues above are part of the process. Is it practical? Is it economical? Is it worth the trouble? All things to be researched. (I have your phone #) Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ The_MS Posted July 20, 2015 Baller_ Share Posted July 20, 2015 All that work for spray in the face @ 35off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Intheday Posted July 20, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 20, 2015 Love following project builds, boats, hot rods, motorbikes. how could this not be a good idea for someone else to complete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted July 20, 2015 Author Administrators Share Posted July 20, 2015 @MS spoiled Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalor Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 My boat is an 89 centurion falcon which I converted to multi port fuel injection myself when I rebuilt the motor. While rebuilding the engine I increased the compression a bit and changed to a little more aggressive cam. Now makes well over 300 hp. The Falcon hull is one of the best for slalom.....and no spray whatsoever at any rope length. Will be adding pp stargazer with z box before next season. Only problem with this setup I can see is wood used by centurion in this era so hull must be chosen very carefully. Think they went away from wood a little later and kept the same hull shape..... So would try for one of those if I did it again. I've had this boat for 13 years and still love it.....tons of power....turns like an f1 car......no spray.....great wakes.....and investment way below 10k including engine mods 13 years ago.....I'm excited to get into the pp sg project soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller oldjeep Posted July 20, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 20, 2015 If you are not doing it yourself then the $$ isn't going to make sense. There is a cool thread on Malibu crew where a guy took an old malibu and swapped an LS motor into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Stevie Boy Posted July 20, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 20, 2015 So what is the cost of a secondhand Malibu ready to go compared with rebuilding something, how much do you value your labour per hour. Somebody did once say to me that I worked too hard and I would be better off working smart, so if you look at the many hours it is going to take, would you be better off doing something with those hours that not only pays well but is easier and just buy something that is ready to go ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller rodltg2 Posted July 20, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 20, 2015 Falcon windshield sucks though. Either look over it or duck under. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalor Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Haha @rodltg2 ya your right.....I've gotten used to it but you are right..it is a little annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalor Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 I look over it unless it's really cold! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller DefectiveDave Posted July 20, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 20, 2015 I'm very interested. However, what makes a boat good enough to be a daily trainer? Is it zero-off? Is it a upgraded motor? Are there hull tricks that make the older boats ski more comparably to newer boats? If you need all of the above then it will be expensive as @Jody_Seal has pointed out, and if that's what needs to be done then so be it. However, if you can get 90% there by rebuilding an existing engine (with more power), adding z-box, and maybe doing some "simple" hull mods that may be more accessible to the skier on a tight budget. Just some thoughts. Good luck @Horton! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalor Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 The time/money equation will depend on the individual.....when I built my boat I had plenty of time and absolutely no money so what I did made good sense. Now, all these years later I have no time and a little more money so my project would be different if I were contemplating it today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jackski Posted July 20, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 20, 2015 @ smalor Which multi point did you use ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller chris_logan Posted July 20, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 20, 2015 @Horton If you can incorporate a video documentary series on it, showing the reality (every PIA headache detail) of this project, it exponentially increases the value of this project as a whole to every baller potentially interested in doing the same/similar project (myself included). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalor Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 @jackski Built my own.....here's a picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted July 20, 2015 Baller_ Share Posted July 20, 2015 Been kicking around the idea of a repower with a lightly used PCM and adding ZO for a while now. Would not be able to find a boat already set up for less $$ I am sure of that. But, still not cheap. My reservation is training. It seems much easier to ski when I get behind a ZO boat then my Clasic PP by far (once I went through all settings and found what works). Typically I run up to or past my pactice scores in tournaments. It is a different pull by a long shot. But if I'm training behind something that's a little more challenging and find things easier at tournaments, why spend the thousands. Being a skier on a tight budget comes into play as well. Zbox is an option. But still not the same pull. But would love to hear the process of anyone going through the upgrade. All the more info to factor in to a large investment like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted July 20, 2015 Author Administrators Share Posted July 20, 2015 @smalor One of the problems in the sport is cost of entry. If you can afford a $40k to $80k boat this project is likely not directed at you. Bottom line is we want more skiers to see that they can be involved without a new boat. Not saying it is easy but nothing worthwhile is. Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller dstone124 Posted July 20, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 20, 2015 This has been my dream project for several years now. Absolutely my answer to whenever someone says "if you could do anything, what would it be?!" I'm all for transforming that series of hull with a modern drive train and some additional amenities. My idea (without giving it completely away), think of the Nautique Paragon from the mid 90's, combined with the sweet luxurious look of the old barrel-backed Chris Crafts, but still a fiberglass hull and efficiency enough to pull an interested skier into short line... Someday... Someday... Speaking of that, if anyone in the midwest is looking to offload a 91-94 MC Prostar hull on the cheap (I don't need anything except the lower section of the part line, just the hull for now) let me know! I'm excited to see your one arm efforts during your downtime @Horton !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller rodltg2 Posted July 20, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 20, 2015 @Horton if someone is just looking to get started in the sport , there is no need for all those upgrades. For $9000 one could easily find a suitable boat with speed control . Does one really need ZO to be competitive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jhughes Posted July 20, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 20, 2015 Is boat cost really the main barrier to entry? I'd imagine that by far the problem is access to consistent, nearby, flat water with a course. Unfortunately no boat upgrade is going to help that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller tigadunner Posted July 20, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 20, 2015 For something different....maybe try an old school/early 90's Tige 2000 slm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ALPJr Posted July 20, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 20, 2015 @"Mateo Vargas" that 5.0 is a nice set up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted July 20, 2015 Baller_ Share Posted July 20, 2015 @OB even payments can be tough. Not a lot of banks are gonna loan on a 40k toy...I could be wrong. This idea does put another option on the table for a lot of skiers that have a great deal of "winter" time to play with a rebuild. Whatever "winter" is.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller oldjeep Posted July 20, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 20, 2015 @wish - banks are more than happy to loan on 150K toys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted July 20, 2015 Author Administrators Share Posted July 20, 2015 @jhughes one problem at a time Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted July 20, 2015 Author Administrators Share Posted July 20, 2015 @rodltg2 there are endless options Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller rodltg2 Posted July 20, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 20, 2015 like this one ! one get get into skiing the course on the cheap. http://www.ski-it-again.com/php/skiitagain.php?endless=summer&topic=Search&category=Comp_Boat&postid=29700 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller rawly Posted July 20, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 20, 2015 @rodltg2 that is my neighbors boat. He is giving it away at that price. Is my favorite boat to drive and ski behind. Boat was replaced a year ago only because he wanted ZO. He is thinking about raising price , so people won't think its a junk boat. Has lived at Ski West it's whole life ,so 2/3 of hours are at idle , started out as promo boat. Someone will score big with this find !! Hey @Horton , weren't you gonna buy this at one time ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E_T Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 @smalor interesting set up, what controller are you running? Can we have some more details on that intake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted July 20, 2015 Author Administrators Share Posted July 20, 2015 I know that boat well. I considered it as a trick boat. Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.webp.3cd841288e23e58f209509e0bce4937d.webp)
.webp.a30f66e5f4553a0ea06e4fe12520951c.webp)
.webp.8497384650ada8a3e4f1fd5dd6c3fb2a.webp)
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now