Baller webbdawg99 Posted August 19, 2015 Baller Share Posted August 19, 2015 I just transitioned to M3. I don't plan to ski any more tournaments at 36. I currently start at 28 off. What speed(s) should I be practicing at to maximize buoy count at 34.2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller webbdawg99 Posted August 19, 2015 Author Baller Share Posted August 19, 2015 @MS MattP deleted due to an error and your comment was lost before I could read it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ The_MS Posted August 19, 2015 Baller_ Share Posted August 19, 2015 Ski at 34 and go back to 36 when you get in a slump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jayski Posted August 19, 2015 Baller Share Posted August 19, 2015 Stay @ 36...be a man :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 6balls Posted August 19, 2015 Baller Share Posted August 19, 2015 Everybody does it after you get over the "but I like skiing 36 and don't want to give it up" stage. Picking up a rope length helps you lick your wounds. My first tourney at 34 just a week after my speed dropped was my tourney PB for 6 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted August 19, 2015 Baller_ Share Posted August 19, 2015 This is what I have started to do. I have to say, I think it helps. I'm also learning that 35 is a nice speed. But only time will tell along with jumping behind a ZO boat in 3 weeks. Hopefully sooner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller webbdawg99 Posted August 19, 2015 Author Baller Share Posted August 19, 2015 @6balls your experience of skiing a PB and then not again for years is what concerns me. Why do you think that happened?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klindy Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Enjoy the slower speed. I remember when I went to 34, never missed a 35 all season practice or tournaments. It was an easy 4-5 buoy jump for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 6balls Posted August 19, 2015 Baller Share Posted August 19, 2015 Dunno, seemed so easy the first time...if it felt like that out of the box I figured I was on my way to running 38 all of the time. Maybe you are onto something, maybe there is a better way to train. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller webbdawg99 Posted August 19, 2015 Author Baller Share Posted August 19, 2015 And I don't think your experience is unique @6balls. Which is why I've been questioning what's best. If guys are skiing their pb's right after the transition, then fall off, there has to be something to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller thager Posted August 19, 2015 Baller Share Posted August 19, 2015 Train like you ski. Ski like you train! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 6balls Posted August 19, 2015 Baller Share Posted August 19, 2015 OK, ski 36 except for tourneys. I went into that tourney first time at 34.2 and all was in slo-mo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller webbdawg99 Posted August 19, 2015 Author Baller Share Posted August 19, 2015 I would love to hear @Sethski 's thoughts on the subject Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporting Member Than_Bogan Posted August 19, 2015 Supporting Member Share Posted August 19, 2015 I know one guy who stayed at 36 for a long time (by the simple method of lying about this age before that became legal). Now as a 34mph skier, he still trains at 35mph for -28 and -32, and then slows it for -35 and beyond. It's only one data point, but I don't feel this has done anything remarkable for him. But fwiw, he might be the most consistent 2 @ -38 skier on earth. Perfect conditions? 2 @ -38. Monsoon? 2 @ -38. I think the bigger aspect of what 6balls experienced is that it's really really hard to get better after a certain point. My practice top end has been 103.5 buoys for about 13 years, covering both 36 and 34. So you get that first-set 34-PB and you assume you can get a lot more once you train at 34. But in fact, it's damn hard to get more at this stage, regardless of how you train. I don't mean to be defeatist: It's always possible to get better with good coaching, intelligent practice, and time on the water. But I doubt the pattern of speeds you train at is a huge factor. So my recommendation is: Do whatever speed pattern you find most fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller MattP Posted August 19, 2015 Baller Share Posted August 19, 2015 I know @Chad_Scott and some of the other top big Dawgs train at faster speeds. I would like to hear his thoughts as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller webbdawg99 Posted August 19, 2015 Author Baller Share Posted August 19, 2015 I ran into Matt Heinz at Nationals. He told me that Ben Favret skis at 36 most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Razorskier1 Posted August 19, 2015 Baller Share Posted August 19, 2015 You just have to get used to the slower speed. You can keep your handle a really long time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ MISkier Posted August 19, 2015 Baller_ Share Posted August 19, 2015 In the trailer for 43@43, Jeff Rodgers starts off at 36 and dials it down as he goes shorter. It seems like it works for him. The worst slalom equipment I own is between my ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Onside135 Posted August 19, 2015 Baller Share Posted August 19, 2015 In tournaments are these guys skiing longer lines at 36mph, then dropping back to 34mph? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 6balls Posted August 20, 2015 Baller Share Posted August 20, 2015 I think what it all means...from a physics perspective...is that at short lines, the line is more the enemy than the boat speed. Certainly 36 is harder than 34 mph, but 38 off, 39 off and beyond present certain angle propositions regardless of speed that are very challenging and create an asymptote for many of us in terms of bettering performance regardless of speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller webbdawg99 Posted August 20, 2015 Author Baller Share Posted August 20, 2015 @6balls I think I remember you and @Razorskier1 talking about preparation for weight lifting competitions. Something about just holding a weight heavier than you plan on lifting. My assumption is that when you simply hold a heavier weight, it makes your actual max weight "feel" lighter. To me, this seems to be a very similar parallel. It's about tricking my brain into thinking that 34 is slow....instead of normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 6balls Posted August 20, 2015 Baller Share Posted August 20, 2015 True we did static holds with ridiculous weight at times. We also did board presses with stacks of 2 by 4's on our chests...come down touch the boards and up...with way more weight than we could take to the chest...all a mind game. Given I'm on PP my buddy Bob runs me hot most of the time so I don't feel as fast on ZO at tourney's. Maybe just running strong side ZO is worth it at all lines in practice knowing you will get ZO actuals in tourneys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted August 20, 2015 Baller_ Share Posted August 20, 2015 I've been skiing with the Italian over 35 record holder for the past 3 weeks. He skis 35mph most of if not all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller MrJones Posted August 20, 2015 Baller Share Posted August 20, 2015 Than. You don't have to lie about it. You can ski 36 as long as you want, you just have to tell the driver. I skied 36 until I was 41. All practice and non regional, national, or Big Dawg events were at 36. Dropped to 34 for those "competitive" tournaments. Talking with KLP at a Big Dawg convinced me that the timing factor was a big deal, so I slowed down for practice. 34.2 is girls speed. I'm still getting over being embarrassed about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller webbdawg99 Posted August 20, 2015 Author Baller Share Posted August 20, 2015 So for a guy that just graduated, what's your vote @MrJones ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Drago Posted August 20, 2015 Baller Share Posted August 20, 2015 It's all timing. Ski at 34.2 and Own it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ozski Posted August 20, 2015 Baller Share Posted August 20, 2015 Stargazer has the ability to deliver both speeds during the one pass. True. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller MrJones Posted August 20, 2015 Baller Share Posted August 20, 2015 If you are going to ski 34.2, ski 34.2. I don't think a little faster, like 35.0 is that big a deal to change from, but unless your name is Andy or Jeff switching back and forth from 36 to 34.2 is hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller LeonL Posted August 20, 2015 Baller Share Posted August 20, 2015 I, like @Than_Bogan don't mean to be defeatist, but expect a short adjustment period and then maybe pick up 4-5 buoys. Here comes the downside.....lots of skiers, over time lose 2-3 of these gained buoys. Sometimes over the winter layoff, for those who winter applies to. As @horton once said, changing speeds messes with your timing. I can address personally moving from 34 to 32( if anyone really cares about real old guys). I picked up 4-5 buoys in practice and kept that for the next full season. Then the next year I lost a couple, and by the next year no extra buoys at all consistently. For me I had a tournament average of 2 @35 off at 34. I improved to a tournament average of 5@35 at 32. Now I'm back to a tournament average of 86.33. I can however run 32 off much more consistently (meaning about 90%) but 35 is just a crap shoot now. You have to also take into consideration something that I fear....old age maybe has had an impact. You can't keep the same performance forever. Having said all this, @webbdawg99 , you're only 35 and you can dismiss the last 2/3 of my rambling! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller MrJones Posted August 20, 2015 Baller Share Posted August 20, 2015 I agree with Leon. If you aren't careful, that new easy speed feel goes away. I've taken a couple of weeks off since Regionals. May have to speed up a little this weekend for fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Sethski Posted August 20, 2015 Baller Share Posted August 20, 2015 As a Skier: So, personally (and I don't know if I am a good example because I have been struggling at 39 lately) I ski at 34.2 because I want to know and trust things at that speed and know where I can be atient and where I need to pick up the pace. For me, there may be a time when I need to ski 36 in practice, but right now, most of my issues are based around trusting I can get to the next buoy without overworking it. My mentality is still based on 36 mph so I rush turns when I don't need to. That's just me as a skier. As a Coach: Now, as a coach, I would say there is no correct answer. I feel like on this forum everyone always seems to look for the CORRECT answer. I think we all know, there really is no perfect equation. Jeff Rogers may start at 36 and dial it down as he goes and that works for him. IF you have ever spent time skiing with him or just being around him, you would also know that it probably wouldn't matter. He knows he can run 41 at both speeds. Some people may need to challenge themselves in practice so it feels like slow-mo in a tnmt. Some people may not get enough of an opportunity to practice a specific line length by doing this. Still others, may need to learn the speeds. I think there are a ton of great thoughts on here. Don't pigeonhole yourself by picking one way. The same goes for technique. Keep an open mind and find what works for you. Sorry for my ambiguous post...but that's my two cents...not that anyone asked. I hope you are all having a great summer and it continues well into the fall. Now I am going back to work so I have time to go take a ski set so I can learn how to start skiing well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad_Scott Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 My choice to ski 35 mph has more to do with extending my season. As you know you can get away with much more at 34. However after back surgery, my back would disagree. If you can ski 34 I think it is better. The gates at 39 and 41 are very important as is the timing. Skiing fast has an adverse effect on the gates as you slow down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Razorskier1 Posted August 20, 2015 Baller Share Posted August 20, 2015 I feel like it is a timing thing. I ski some 36mph just because it is fun -- primarily 28 and 32 off. However, the cadence at that speed is very different than 34.2. Like @Sethski, I am better off to learn what I need to do and how to stay on time with the boat at one speed rather than two. It does take a while to learn that you don't need to work so hard to "make the ski go". The ski will go if you just set an edge and stay on top of it. Because it takes more to build from lost speed, I think it is more important at 34.2 to maintain speed throughout rather than speeding up, slowing down, speeding up, slowing down. At 36 if you lose speed the boat gives it back to you. At 34.2 when you lose speed, you are kind of in a hole in the water, and it is tougher to get moving again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporting Member Than_Bogan Posted August 20, 2015 Supporting Member Share Posted August 20, 2015 @Sethski Well we certainly can't trust anyone who is struggling at -39. I mean I can run -39 every time ... on the minicourse! And btw, the original poster (@webbdawg99) actually did request your thoughts on the matter. Thanks for sharing them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Sethski Posted August 20, 2015 Baller Share Posted August 20, 2015 Haha...thanks Than. Maybe I should have phrased it as, "I may not be the best guy to ask because so many people seem to be kicking my a__!" Ha...but not for long. I am relearning some things... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller drewski32 Posted August 21, 2015 Baller Share Posted August 21, 2015 I love how so many people on here like to say that 36 isn't that much harder. Now everyone is talking about how many buoys they picked up. I've only seen 6 ball at -35/36 once before and didn't get out the gates, but I can run it all day long at 34 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporting Member Than_Bogan Posted August 21, 2015 Supporting Member Share Posted August 21, 2015 Who the hell said 36 isn't that much harder? Either delusional or never tried it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted August 22, 2015 Baller_ Share Posted August 22, 2015 Been attempting to stay at 35mph for 28 and 32. Cannot imagine 36. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller webbdawg99 Posted August 22, 2015 Author Baller Share Posted August 22, 2015 One thing is for certain, 34 is harder on the body! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Razorskier1 Posted August 22, 2015 Baller Share Posted August 22, 2015 @webbdawg99 Once you adjust to staying connected lighter for longer 34 won't hurt so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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