Chris Taylor Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 I have heard everyone rave about the older MC's early 90's up to 97, and it seems like a lot of people like the new prostar. However I haven't heard or read much about the MC 197. Whats the pros/cons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ MISkier Posted August 28, 2015 Baller_ Share Posted August 28, 2015 If you are not a trick skier, there are better boats. The 22 off wake is not good at any speed. Some of the very early 197s were even worse. I believe they added a hook to the hull in 2004 or 2005 that made it better. I think the Tournament Team versions had the hook earlier. What year are you considering? The worst slalom equipment I own is between my ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Taylor Posted August 28, 2015 Author Share Posted August 28, 2015 Just researching newer boats besides my 92 comp, to hopefully upgrade in the next season or 2. I know the Nautique 196 seems to be everyone's favorite. I like the RLXI, and have a lot of skiing behinde a sunsetter lxi. I want something with open bow, for when I have the family out with me. I just think as far as visually a 197 is one of the most beautiful boats I see, but looks aren't everything. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ MISkier Posted August 28, 2015 Baller_ Share Posted August 28, 2015 Since you list wakeboarding as one of your interests, the 197 might be for you. They had a version called the X7 with wakeboard tower and ballast. The looks of the 197 and wakeboard capabilities. Just be aware that you sacrifice the slalom wake at 22 off. The worst slalom equipment I own is between my ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Taylor Posted August 28, 2015 Author Share Posted August 28, 2015 I mostly slalom and barefoot, but occasionally will wakeboard with my boys when the water is choppy. Hope I don't get hung from the oak tree for admitting that on here. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller gregy Posted August 28, 2015 Baller Share Posted August 28, 2015 One of my ski partners has an 08 197TT. 22 and 28 have a noticeable bump especially if you want slow the boat to 30 or 32 to work on form. If you like wakeboarding you can put some fatsacs and it through a monster wake. RLX and RLXI much better. The 197 or built well and there are some deals out there on zero off boats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Jordan Posted August 28, 2015 Baller Share Posted August 28, 2015 My ski partner has an X7 and his usage matches yours well...he has really enjoyed the boat and it has a great wake 28 off and deeper. What I would say is, make sure that you ski whatever boat you consider. There are differences even between boats that are the same model and the same year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fox197 Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 I have a 2013 197 and couldn't be happier. Like others have said, there is a slight bump at 22. But apart from that exact spot the wake is to me amazing. I don't think they get the credit they deserve compared to some of the other boats. If your looking for a tournament boat that you can have a day with friends in at a public lake then the 197 with a mini tower or the 200ob gets my vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikegile Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 I have an '06 tournament team. It is one of the better skiing boats in my opinion. I believe the bow seating is absolutely useless. The nose rides about 8 inches above the water and it is a constant battle to keep the boat dry in rough water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Texas6 Posted August 28, 2015 Baller Share Posted August 28, 2015 I had a 2003 197 and it was a decent boat. The big wake thing is a bit overblown; it's a very good wake but there are better. Having owned a 197 and a196, the Nautique wins hands down in every department. Craftsmanship, seat vinyl, drive ability, chine spray, slalom wake, reliability, etc. If you want the most versatile boat that is great for slalom and good enough for WB, look at a LXi/TXi with a wedge and a tower. If you want a badass slalom boat from that era, get a Nautique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ MISkier Posted August 28, 2015 Baller_ Share Posted August 28, 2015 I actually preferred my old 2000 MC 205 (based on the 95-97 Prostar 190 hull) to any 197. Better wake, better tracking, roomy, usable bow seating, decent freeboard. I only sold my 205 to get ZO. +1 on the TXi with a wedge to get the best compromise. I now have the Response LX with step over open bow. The worst slalom equipment I own is between my ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 6balls Posted August 29, 2015 Baller Share Posted August 29, 2015 @texas6 is spot on. The 197 was a cool boat. Good space, good tracking, and for anyone opening at 28 off, 34/36 mph wakes were outstanding there and deeper. Most wake complaints were slower speeds/longer lines. Barefoot wake better on the 'Bu. Trickers seemed to like the 197. @MIskier the 205 was a decent boat in those years. A buddy had one and I skied it open water, course, and barefooted. Cool thing was if the water was really crappy, you could barefoot that thing at 22 off and be so snuggled into the wake that it mashed all the crap down. It was a very solid boat all around for the size...kinda like the Sunsetter was for a bit there...I'm pretty impressed with those as well...perhaps more so as a bigger boat with higher free board and an open bow that doesn't dunk. The right sunsetter on PP with a tower and wedge would make a pretty interesting all around boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Bill22 Posted August 29, 2015 Baller Share Posted August 29, 2015 One prostar you never hear anyone mention is 195. Maybe it was only made for 1-2 years or in limited numbers. My friend has a 2001 195. The 195 must have become the 197 after 2001? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller eleeski Posted August 29, 2015 Baller Share Posted August 29, 2015 The 197 might be the best all around boat ever built. Slalom was fine behind that boat. Lots of pbs were made from beginner to deep shortline behind my boats. Might be hundreds with all the college kids it has pulled. The wake was never a factor at my slalom level (a few at 35off) or for my guests who were a couple passes better. I'm not a jumper so I can't analyze the jump pull but it was pulling world records in jump. The trick wake shape and the smooth table were the best I ever skied behind. We have fat sacked the boat for a maxed out wakeboard wake to make the serious wakeboarders happy (the coaching was more important than the wake). We've surfed the wake and had fun. Even done some boat specific surf board evaluations. The biggest problem with the 197 is that the production run was too long. Nothing degraded the boat, but people want the latest - even if it is inferior. Maybe in a couple years MC will reintroduce the 197 as the most versatile boat possible. Which it is! Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller eleeski Posted August 29, 2015 Baller Share Posted August 29, 2015 Good boats both for sure, but the MC wake is steeper. This means you can do more with less weight or water depth. Plus that steepness is why the MC trick wake is the best. At least you can get the Malibu's nice wake in a new boat and draw it in tournament - even if you can't use the wedge for tricks. Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ The_MS Posted August 29, 2015 Baller_ Share Posted August 29, 2015 Junk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Ralph Lee Posted August 30, 2015 Baller Share Posted August 30, 2015 Nautique 206 is a far better option then the 197. I love the looks and the comfort of the boat, but Mastercraft really dropped the ball on the wakes. I think the wakes suck all the way till 32 off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller slow Posted August 31, 2015 Baller Share Posted August 31, 2015 Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller eleeski Posted August 31, 2015 Baller Share Posted August 31, 2015 The Koolaide is strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ The_MS Posted August 31, 2015 Baller_ Share Posted August 31, 2015 I hate driving them and the wake at slow speed and -22 and back suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller oldjeep Posted August 31, 2015 Baller Share Posted August 31, 2015 At 30mph, 15off I prefer the wake on my vtx to a 2012 197 WTT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Taylor Posted August 31, 2015 Author Share Posted August 31, 2015 Thanks for the input, as I am not into 28 yet, definitely sounds like this boat is not for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller rodltg2 Posted August 31, 2015 Baller Share Posted August 31, 2015 It's really not that bad. At 32mph and up 15/22 is very skiable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller eleeski Posted August 31, 2015 Baller Share Posted August 31, 2015 The Koolaid drinkers are completely full of crap. A lot of the guys who pick on the boat also won't ski if there's a crosswind instead of the private lake glass. They also think that islands will make you ski better. Don't listen to them. My 04 MC 197 just pulled practice for the Alumni Regionals. Kids just barely figuring out the course. Two PBs out of the group of slow speed but skilled skiers. What exactly is not for you about a boat that rocks at every level where you can still improve? It is world class when you get to world class levels. The 197 is a great boat and certainly worthy of your consideration. MCs hold their value well and are still in demand so you might not get the best deal on one. But if the right boat comes along, jump on it. You will love it! Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Taylor Posted August 31, 2015 Author Share Posted August 31, 2015 I also have to consider that coming from a early 90's inboard, how bad could the wake be? I am used to a sloped nose so that doesn't bother me a bit, even after taking 4 waves over the windshield on Lake Michigan this year during the air show. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inland Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Honestly, either a 197 or a Response LXi will serve you well. I agree that the 197 is a super nice looking boat. Having been in and skied them both, all I can say is that the bow space in the LXi is slightly better than the 197 but there is little difference in how easily you take take water over the bow. If anything, slight advantage to the LXi if you plan on doing any wakeboarding. I own a Response LXi, but I can't tell you I'd be any less happy if I had a 197. They're both great boats and deeper than -22, I'm not sure the differences are all that apparent. As said, longer line the RLXi or TXi are better. Otherwise, drive them both and ski them both and make a decision. You can't go wrong either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller swc5150 Posted August 31, 2015 Baller Share Posted August 31, 2015 Taking the business side of the 197 out of the equation, make sure you take your wife out in one before buying. My wife won't set foot in an MC, due to the bone-jarring ride. As a family, we've owned 9 Prostar's throughout the year, and every single one was just brutal on bumpy, public water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Wolfeie Posted August 31, 2015 Baller Share Posted August 31, 2015 I had a 2004 X7 (197 with tower and ballast) and couild not have been happier with the boat. Had a great slalom wake which at 22 I felf was softer than SN196 22 (as long as you do not overload the boat.) Would have kept it but Zero Off upgrage would have been very costly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ The_MS Posted August 31, 2015 Baller_ Share Posted August 31, 2015 That has to be the most preposterous statement of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller rfa Posted August 31, 2015 Baller Share Posted August 31, 2015 Interesting discussion...obviously somewhat subjective, by nature. Here's my (also subjective) input. Just sold 2008 LXi ( Monsoon, 500hrs) that i had for 5 years and absolutely loved. Bought a 2013 197 (Ilmor, 200hrs) on which I have put about 20 hrs. Initial impression not too favorable...thought the wake was a bit bigger at 32/-22, liked the immediate throttle response of the LXi better...LXi slightly roomier (no question bow is bigger). 20 hours later the throttle is a non-issue (got used to it and it's just fine), wake also non-issue at 34/-22 and beyond (for me that 's only -32). Pull some skiers at 28-30/-15 mph and they tell me the wake is soft... Very happy with it. if someone put two similar hour/condition boats in front of me and i had to choose...probably the LXi...but not without much "head scratching"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ MISkier Posted August 31, 2015 Baller_ Share Posted August 31, 2015 I stood on the dock at multiple tournaments and listened to kids and women skiers express their displeasure at the 197 when it was drawn for the round. I never liked it at 34/-22 and certainly wouldn't have wanted any slower. Some may say it's subjective. But, if enough people share the same opinion, when does it become closer to fact? I'm not drinking any Kool Aid. I like the new Prostar. I owned a 205 and liked it. I frequently ski 190s from 1993 through 1995. I like the new Centurion. I like my RLX. I like the club TXi. I like the 1997 and up 196s. The 200 seems like a fine boat. The only Kool Aid I'm drinking is the one that says the 197 does not have a good slalom wake at longer lines and/or slower speeds. That's it. If I started at 34/-28 or was a trick skier, I might feel differently. The worst slalom equipment I own is between my ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fox197 Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 @MS I find it hard that you call someone's statement preposterous when your first comment was "junk" what a stupid comment when someone is asking for an opinion. You have every right to dislike a boat. God I hate SN200s because of all 3 I've been in have had terrible fit and finish. That doesn't mean they are all junk. Maybe I was in 3 bad ones. But make your posts constructive. I love my 197. Yes it has a slight bump at 22. but good god not everything can be perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller MattP Posted September 1, 2015 Baller Share Posted September 1, 2015 @fox197 Every one has their opinions. I see that you are a 197 guy and @MS is a 200 guy. Don't hold it against him. He does like good beer though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller eleeski Posted September 1, 2015 Baller Share Posted September 1, 2015 @MS is wrong and very misleading. The MC 197 is an elite three event boat. Perhaps there are differences that Mark can notice between boats but the 197 is clearly not "junk". When you compare a 197 to a Nautique 2001, a Marlin Magnum, a Moomba or almost any other boat (other than a brand new 60K tournament boat which it still compares well to), the drivability and the slalom wake are awesome. Perfect for Chris. @MISkier A lot of people said the world was flat. They killed Galileo to keep the earth at the center of the universe. Just because a lot of wives and beginning kids of high level skiers parroted the Koolaid does not make it so. Any skier is capable of developing skills enough to easily handle the wake. If they can't, none of the other wakes will get them through either. @swc5150 Any elite tournament boat will have a bone jarring ride in rough water. The 200 might be the worst. But none of the boats will break in half and who really wants to ski if it is bone jarring rough? Due to injuries, I am now slalom skiing 30 mph 15off. The sour spot for the 197. Noticed it wasn't as nice as the 34 28off wake but had no problem with the wake despite a sensitive hip. The wake is fine. I've had a few good trick rides behind a 200. I am choosing a Malibu in tournaments now. There are good choices. Yeah, I prefer my old MC 197 but the new boats are not "junk". Some CC196s (@MS is a 196 guy) that got sent to big tournaments (like Nationals) were junk, but some were OK. I would ski a 196 before I bought it. Still, I might buy and repower a bubble back Nautique before I'd get a 196. Heck, I'd just get a nice ZO MC 197. Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fox197 Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 @MattP not holding it against him at all. His opinion is welcomed. But someone was asking for an opinion so maybe instead of a silly comment bringing down everyone who owns one he could have explained in detail why he doesn't like it. Nothing against him. Sorry @MS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ MISkier Posted September 1, 2015 Baller_ Share Posted September 1, 2015 @eleeski, nice analogy with Galileo and also the flat earth beliefs. But, we are not trying to theorize about something that we can't see. We are talking about a wake that we can actually ski over and form an opinion of our own personal experience doing that. And I, like many others, arrived at my own empirical conclusion. The worst slalom equipment I own is between my ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller swc5150 Posted September 1, 2015 Baller Share Posted September 1, 2015 @eleeski I agree on the rough water ride to an extent. However, CC's have a way softer ride than MC's though. I just don't get how anyone can dispute that? I like MC's, having owned many of them, but they're flat out hard on the kidneys in the rollers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ The_MS Posted September 1, 2015 Baller_ Share Posted September 1, 2015 We have a local radio station that has awards for yearly preposterous statements and maybe we should look into that on BOS. I am always tossing out crap and would hope to take the crown home. Look, the 197 is a nice boat if you like to 3 event but to compare -22 to the 196 -22 is taking the crown home. The 197 was over priced and every boat was different. There was zero hull consistency from boat to boat. We had 3 MC promos in the state and every year all 3 were different. The new MC is the best boat out there but I will never plunk down that kind of cash. I am not a fan of the 200 but if you have different drivers every day, you definitely want them driving you with the 200. The 196 is the boat of choice and there is no reason for that hull not to be in production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Fine409 Posted September 1, 2015 Baller Share Posted September 1, 2015 @MS Ack ack a dack... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ The_MS Posted September 1, 2015 Baller_ Share Posted September 1, 2015 @dtm8119 dis dat lat. 13/14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 6balls Posted September 1, 2015 Baller Share Posted September 1, 2015 @MS you know I'm also a big 196 fan. Now owning a 200 what don't you like (not necessarily in comparison to a 196...just what are the "cons" of that boat)? Price no object would you run a Prostar instead and if so, why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Ralph Lee Posted September 1, 2015 Baller Share Posted September 1, 2015 I own a 196, my buddy owns a 197, and my brother owns a 205. We slalom behind the CC, load the 205 full of people and wakeboard and tube, and the 197 sits. Even at 36 mph the 197 wakes jar your body! One of my favorite looking boats of all time, but I don't even like skiing open water behind it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ The_MS Posted September 1, 2015 Baller_ Share Posted September 1, 2015 Its a big barge that I dont need for our lake. The side storage is useless and I miss the dual side gas fill. I will say that the closed bow makes it feel smaller then the open bows that I drove in the past. There is a definite hit to the wallet on the fuel consumption, it feels like we have to gas up every time we go to the dock and ski. I do like that we dont have link screen and our ZO is a separate gauge on the side of the driver. I have the best drivers in the state pulling me so yes, I would run the new MC if money were not an issue. Go stand and watch boat paths at your local C and you will see which boat drives the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller eleeski Posted September 1, 2015 Baller Share Posted September 1, 2015 @MS You must be really missing your Monza if the 22off wake is critical for you. Compare the 197 22off wake to any boat on a public lake and you'll always choose the 197 (the 196 only works with turn islands so it can't be on public water >:) ). The original question was not a comparison between 22off bumps but whether a 197 is a good boat for someone moving up from an old Supra. The 196 was defective for tricks. The Hydrogate helped but did not fix the problem well enough. The 196 table was too rough for toe tricks. Some boats were barely OK (to get the boat passed at AWSA and to go to the serious trickers) but the SDSU boat was so bad that I had the kids learning basics outside the wake. Too many others like that were out for us to ski (including a boat used at Nationals). Not acceptable for a 3 event boat. With that said, the shape of the 196 trick wake was great. A hole or two in the hull and some bondo and that table could work. But you might end up with a 22off bump in slalom... While I haven't heard of any quality problems with MC nor experienced that with the 3 197s I owned or any boat I skied behind in a tournament, a warning to carefully evaluate a used 197 may be valid. "Junk" doesn't really convey that idea but it does get you in the running for the preposterous crown. @MISkier You " listened to kids and women skiers express their displeasure at the 197". That is not an empirical conclusion but herd mentality propagated by clever competing advertising (along with some Koolaid). The boat did pass the physical tests to get tournament approval and AWSA performance numbers did not show a problem. And the PBs of so many kids behind my boat also give a real world contradiction to any actual problem with the wake. @swc5150 It was rough yesterday behind SDSU's 200. It was bouncing around more than my 197 in similar conditions. Not unacceptable for either but I certainly couldn't say that the CC has a softer ride. Nor is that anything I have heard before your post. Ant tournament specific boat sucks in rough water. I am most bothered by the attitude that the only thing that matters is the slalom wake. People do other things with their boats (like wakeboard and barefoot in the case of the original poster's tagline). Even if you happen to be a dedicated slalom skier, your kids or guests might trick or wakeboard. Can't have that! And no playing on the island! Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Ralph Lee Posted September 1, 2015 Baller Share Posted September 1, 2015 If I go 15 mph, put 15 people in, and fill up my water tanks, my 196, it has a great wake for trick, and wakeboard. I will freaking pay 75,000 to 85,000 if someone actually makes a great all around boat. 196 has a terrible barefooting wake too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeprunc Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Wow lots and lots of comments.... I ski behind a 2003 197 and own a 2006 RLXI. For the same price I would go with an RLXI. However I spend the last four days at a private lake skiing behind the 197....I do agree, the MC looks beautiful on the water, it pulls through the course and handles quite well. The -22' bump is noticeable, as this is where I find myself at my hardest passes. But this weekend I was blessed with running with little fuel and little weight...the wake wasn't bad (I think it is very weight sensitive). It is a great boat, and has a features that I like that the RLXI doesn't have. BUT....I think for barefooting you will find yourself underwater longer than you want to (unless you get the larger motor). Maybe its the prop but I feel like the MC is quite slow out of the hull. I feel like the RLXI pull with the 340 monsoon is much stronger, and I feel like the -22' wake with a full tank of gas (41 gals) is still better than the 197 empty. The RLXI seems to be a larger feeling boat, open bow is more user friendly. My friends boat's vinyl is needing replacement with 800 hrs, I feel like the Bu's interior tend to be better constructed (maybe its the way he treats it). Long story short I would choose the RLXI over the 197 if priced the same, but all in all I would be happy with either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ MISkier Posted September 1, 2015 Baller_ Share Posted September 1, 2015 empirical [em-pir-i-kuh l] adjective 1. derived from or guided by experience or experiment. 2. depending upon experience or observation alone, without using scientific method or theory, especially as in medicine. 3. provable or verifiable by experience or experiment. @eleeski , I have observed my dislike of the wake through many experiences with it. I observed others relating their experience and observations. I don't need an experiment or data to observe a hammer hitting my thumb and subsequently conclude that it is painful. The same is true for determining wake characteristics. There is no Kool Aid conspiracy by the evil marketers, just skiers with opinions of a boat wake. And, the United States really did send men to the moon in 1969. The worst slalom equipment I own is between my ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller oldjeep Posted September 1, 2015 Baller Share Posted September 1, 2015 I would submit that if wakeboarding is a consideration then the lxi with wedge is the only serious option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billb Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 The best advice given on this thread was : do not buy a boat without skiing behind it first. Try a few and buy the one you like. Lots of kool aid consumed here, no matter which boat maker you talk about. The only thing that matters is that the guy paying for the boat likes it. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ The_MS Posted September 1, 2015 Baller_ Share Posted September 1, 2015 @eleeski Sounds like your kool aid is spiked with Kilo Kai. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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