Than's RTP transition log

[Gloersen]

@mmosley - concur; dampened the unwanted effect of relying too much on the back foot to turn.

[Horton]

@UWSkier Nate told me he hit 5 ball at 41. At the line length shit just happens.

[UWSkier]

I see Freddy is down with an ankle too now. Podium spots up for grabs at Malibu!

[Drago]

Detrick, the one on Goode.

WAY pivoted. Not sure what brand rtp, probably HO as that was his former ride (3 big less buoys ago)

Look at the screws, the white line is on the ski, you're seeing it through the binding plate

[Than_Bogan]

I was away from an actual keyboard for a while, but 10,000 views suggest at least some people want to continue to follow my ineptitude, so here we go:

 

Set #13. Skiing in PA with Don Henderson, who doesn't participate here on BoS, but I still want to mention that he is a great guy! Always fun to ski there, and I still can't believe his fantastic facility is (and always has been) only 10 minutes from where I learned how to ski so many years ago!

But on this particular day, there was a strong head/tail. I seem to be finding that each "situation" needs to be relearned with RTP, and at first the wind seemed impossible to deal with. But at the very end I sort of got onto it and ran a couple of "OK" passes.

 

Set #14. Still with Don and this time near perfect conditions. I ran some easy -28s and then an acceptable -32. I took several shots at -35, and while I didn't feel "uncomfortable" per se, my 1-ball turns were absolutely horrible, running the gamut from huge over-turns to turns so slow I got pulled onto the wrong edge after the finish.

 

This made me think it was time to dial in the fin a bit, and also time to slap myself for being such a bonehead: With the total discomfort from switching to RTP, I forgot I had just switched to some "experimental" settings that I should have undone rather than compounding it with the binding style change! Hard to say if that really would have eased my transition -- in fact I doubt it -- but it stills seems awfully dumb in retrospect. So anyhow, I adjusted the fin a bit: mainly moved the LE forward to engage the tip sooner into the off-side turn so that I wouldn't get such unpredictable behavior from (what I guessed was) a late/sudden tip engagement.

 

Set #15. Back at Twin Lakes with @AdamCord himself. These new fin settings felt a LOT more solid in the water, but a little too sluggish around the turn, so Mr. Cord (as my daughter has taken to calling him) stopped me mid-set and moved it forward a little to allow it to rotate sooner/faster.

These setting actually felt kind of odd, but I ran a couple of -32s in some backwash and then had a -35 going that I should have run except that I haven't run that in a little while so naturally I sabotaged myself at the 4 ball.

 

Set #16. Second set at Twin Lakes. For some reason I started out this second set in a bit of a fog and was "skiing" like a total dufus for a few missed -32s. But then I woke up and ran a solid -32. I figured I'd finish up with a -35 attempt just to keep getting the timing back -- and I went and ran it pretty easily! (And with some decent backwash due to unusually high water.)

 

In addition to the milestone of my first complete -35 with RTP, maybe even more important was that over those last two sets I finally had the sense of "just skiing" as opposed to "where the hell am I supposed to stand on this thing?"

 

I am guessing that -38 will be a whole new ballgame (as each pass has been), but with any luck I'll be ready to take a few cracks at that next week.

[sunvalleylaw]

I am considering leaving my old D3 leverage binding in the rear ripped (it ripped this year) as a compromise experiment as I try to re-stack myself more 90 from the ski and not from the boat and learn to be lighter on the line. Somehow having some boot back there provides me some comfort, but having it a bit loose and sloppy in the rear near the heel allows some movement too. Bad idea?

[Mateo_Vargas]

@Than_Bogan This is not the secret to slalom success you are looking for, move along.

[Than_Bogan]

There is no secret to slalom success. I'm merely an explorer. I guess I should be flattered that so many people want to give me advice, but my advice to everyone else would be: If you're not interested in this tale, stop reading.

[Mateo_Vargas]

Wow the Jedi mind trick does work!

[Horton]

@Than_Bogan this thread is entertainment

[Than_Bogan]

@Horton Yeah -- WAY more interest than I expected. Guess it's fun watching a train wreck. Also spawned some pretty big digressions and ... um ... "debates."

[lcgordon]

Are we ever going to see video? @Than_Bogan

[Than_Bogan]

@lcgordon Probably not. I'm super-lazy about video except when I need it to get advice. (Or when I'm in a promotional video :smile:.)

[Chef23]

I saw Than ski yesterday and it didn't look that different from a distance than it usually does. I wasn't in the boat though.

[Wish]

Hmmm... how about some more debate?? :-/)

 

I could be wrong but guessing with that kind of angle between shin and ski that a back boot of any kind would significantly hamper his ability to do this as the ankle does not bend that far. This would alter his ability to move COM that far forward creating efficient ski plain with tons of speed. In turn, lower buoy count. He is that good for a reason.

 

 

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Ankles do not bend to the above degree. Typical is 45-50. Heal lift makes up the difference.

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Ran several 32s today and one was just stupid easy and was prob the least loady 32 for me ever. Rotation at the finish of the turn to the hookup felt seamless. Potential is there. To many good things happening for me to stop. Rode the double boot last week through several 35s but it does not feel as efficient but does feel very familiar, consistent and more at home. I'm still not so great at kicking in but when it's done well, I really do not notice rear foot.

 

 

[Than_Bogan]

So today I finally managed to get a Radar ARTP installed in a way that was sorta workable. I feel myself compelled to ask the classic My Cousin Vinny question to those who recommended it: "You were serious about that?"

 

Obviously, it's working for some people, but it makes no sense to me. It is significantly raised in the back, pitching me forward awkwardly. It's very soft, such that I could feel my foot moving up and down like standing on a pillow. It has terrible traction, like my foot was on a bed of ball bearings. And the toe loop itself has a shape that doesn't work with my foot: At the tightest setting that I can actually get my foot into, it's very loose around the ball of my foot once engaged.

 

I've noted before, sometimes all you can hope for is an unambiguous result. Radar ARTP is not for me.

 

The HO RTP remains "tolerable." But I'm still moving. Time to try some of the partial boots many have recommended on this thread. May order an HRTP tomorrow.

[Chef23]

@Than_Bogan have you thought about the Wiley rear toe. It has a thin pebbled surface that might keep your foot in place better. Think about going a size smaller than your shoe size.

[slow]

Agreed with Chef23. You're over thinking it. Jam your foot in a tight Wileys and ski until you can ski well. It'll loosen up eventually and be comfortable.

[Than_Bogan]

Started with the Wiley. But could go back to it now that I have half a clue how to ski with an RTP.

 

In general, this is more of a survey than anything else. Want to understand what's out there a little better. Success on that front so far.

[Ralph Lee]

Unless you get lucky with the size and shape of your foot/ankle, nothing is out there! Customize from top to bottom.

[Gloersen]

try this next, then heat-gun flatten the forefoot, whittle and hack the rest until suitable.

 

You'll achieve what you seek with an RTP but have consistency as well with foot position.

 

RRB

[wtrskior]

@Gloersen that's too easy for Than...

[cragginshred]

Why no video ever from top skiers on this form -except @Horton ?

[Than_Bogan]

@cragginshred I would guess that watching me run -28 over and over again as I iterate through various experiments is pretty darn boring.

 

@Gloersen R-style might be exactly what I do next! I really wanted to start out with a "pure" RTP, and I've learned a ton, and as a bonus I appear to have entertained some folks (and exasperated a few others -- relax guys :) ). There's still plenty more experimenting ahead*, but as far as where I finally land, the smart money is probably on a partial boot like the HRTP or the R-style.

 

*For example, I may decide to give the Wiley another shot, but with a slight riser underneath to get it level with my front foot, and some skateboard grip tape to maybe stop ankle slide.

[cragginshred]

More of a general statement of wanting to see other skiers and their unique styles that offer all the wisdom here but I never get to see them ski.

 

-28 is where I'm at so that would be awesome to see especially to demo what your talking about in the thread!

[ALPJr]

You may consider trying a HO XMax can't kick in but can set it where you want it for fit and canting.

[mmosley899]

I tried out the 2016 Radar Vapor the other day with my Radar HRT and MOB front. Very little difference in the feel of the rear foot after being on my cut down half hardshell for several weeks.

 

[ski6jones]

Any updates on your journey @Than? Tried a Radar HRTP with Vapor front (coming from double Vapor) and had the riding the tail feeling. Wondering where you ended up with the rear binding and whether you moved bindings forward with the RTP's you tried?

[Than_Bogan]

I went back to double T-Factors in the fall because I wanted to give some meaningful feedback on the newest Denali prototype.

There's a chance I'll get back to RTP experimentation this season, but there are also other crazy experiments I want to perform on myself :).

 

Definitely bindings forward for RTP -- that's discussed in this thread (although I can understand if you didn't study all 7 pages!)

[ToddL]

Just a thought... When a Double-boot skier tries a RTP setup, they feel loose or at risk of losing their back foot. That security of the full boot is gone. This likely translates into some desire to put more pressure on the back foot in the hopes of feeling more secure. Thus, the COM and stance is moved backward out of defense and some performance is lost. If the skier then moves bindings forward, but retains the defensive posture, then some of performance will come back due to COM forward again. Still, the stance is back compared to double boot stance. However, once the skier learns to trust the RTP, they may stop pressing so hard on the rear foot. This will put the stance back to normal. Now, they may find too much tip engagement due to the bindings still being forward. So, bindings may need to move back somewhat... Just seems like a logical series of reactions and adjustments.

[ski6jones]

I guess the most plain way to ask this is if you regularly ski on an RTP do you move your bindings forward slightly from stock or from other peoples settings for your initial starting point on a ski? If not then @ToddL makes sense.

 

[ToddL]

@ski6jones - great question! I'm looking forward to hear what people say. My guess If a skier normally skis on RTP, they likely don't have a fear of losing their back foot. So, they likely ski on the same stance as a double-boot skier. If they recently transitioned off double, then maybe they have a different answer. Also, since most skiers with RTP are also on a Silvretta release style front binding, they may have their feet just a tad further apart. That may translate into a slightly forward front boot location. So many variables.

[ski6jones]

So I asked my one friend on an RTP. He uses stock binding position (reflex front). He also told me he felt back footy when he tried to go to double boots some years back. So maybe it's more the change in feel than anything else. I will say that for me everything felt great on the RTP until i got to 1 ball. Getup, pull out, turn in all good. Coming out of 1 I was on the tail and never could get up over the ski again. Really weird.

[Chef23]

I am a RTP skier and I use stock binding position. I have always been an RTP user.