Baller klindy Posted October 13, 2016 Baller Share Posted October 13, 2016 What if a location like WPB was the "permanent" nationals site? No plans to do that as far as I know but if a deal can be worked out for like a 10 year term or more that might take a few variables off the table and allow for a focus to tailor nationals to "fit" the venue. That also may allow for collaborating with the parks department or county and certainly local businesses etc. Obviously an equitable deal would need to be hashed out but assuming it's possible to reach an agreement what are your thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Bruce_Butterfield Posted October 13, 2016 Baller_ Share Posted October 13, 2016 @klindy - WPB is one of my favorite places to ski and the club there always does an excellent job hosting, but I think having a permanent nationals site is a bad idea: 1. The demographics will be heavily skewed to the local skiers. 2. The burden of travel cost will be always be on the same groups. 3. An additional "Home site advantage" will be held by the local skiers and further drive the need for on site practice by those traveling. 4. One of the great things about Idaho this year was that no one was dripping with sweat all day and fully drained by the heat. That was a nice change :) 5. IMO, one of the more important aspects of a national championship is being able to perform at an unfamiliar site in unfamiliar conditions. Remember the bathtub in Chicago? That is a great equalizer. I could probably think of a few more reasons against a permanent site, but these should backup my opinion. If it was easy, they would call it Wakeboarding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jimbrake Posted October 13, 2016 Baller Share Posted October 13, 2016 Part of the deal with regionals and nats is that it is just one round. More pressure on your ride. If you do well, it kinda means more. If you ski like crap, well, maybe you succumbed, maybe you were unlucky, and unfortunately it hurts a bit more. If that's not OK with you, that's fine, but if maximizing your number of sets is your key priority, then maybe just practice only and don't go to any tournaments. I kind of fee that way about ski racing right now - I'd rather train a bunch of quality runs than go to a race and stand around on the hill waiting for my two runs (or one) and then feel like crap when I put up a slow time. I'm not saying anyone is wrong or bad because of their opinion, just that regionals and nats are big, one-rounders, with a lot of pressure and that is part of what makes them a big deal (to some of us). For me, there is a lot more to going to those tournaments than just my ski ride - my kids, old friends, new friends, new faces even if I don't meet them, practice, vendors, a new place, other stuff to do, other sights to see, other food to eat. It's "ski travel" with competition thrown in. "Bang for the buck" comes from all of that together, not just the number of rides. All this said, I'm ok with change especially if it gets more skiers to attend. I'm not a "keep it how it's always been" guy, but I'm OK with how it is now because of all the above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Chet Posted October 13, 2016 Baller_ Share Posted October 13, 2016 I have been skiing Nats. Since I was a small boy and have looked forward and worked hard every year to be a participant first and competitor second. As I fully agree that the Regional requirement is rediculous for those pre qualified I also loved the regional event when it was feasible for me and my family to go. I am in no way in favor of making the National Waterski Championships into a normal tournament. It is hard yes but that to me makes it unique and special. I love the idea of the host club taking the lead as proposed and trying to make it a great event. I would leave it up to them to decide what is possible and or feasible regarding practice or additional events in conjunction with the Nats. It's a lot of work and we need a place family's can plan for. I think with practice and time the Ski club of Palm Beachs would make the event amazing if they get more direct control of the event and some of the restrictions for participating (like regionals) were lifted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ RichardDoane Posted October 14, 2016 Baller_ Share Posted October 14, 2016 Smaller, funner, and easier events for local clubs will increase participation at the state level, and that can be the focus to get more people involved at the grassroots level. Higher scoring skiers attending a regionals, and the top levels going to nationals makes sense for the skiers who like the pressure of the big, one round event. The LOC needs to get as much $$$ as possible from hosting a national event. Looking at the financials and making intelligent business decisions should be a no brainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Razorskier1 Posted October 14, 2016 Baller Share Posted October 14, 2016 What if nationals evolved to include a head-to-head format? I realize there are issues with time, etc, but it might make it more fun for competitors if they had that opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Edbrazil Posted October 14, 2016 Baller Share Posted October 14, 2016 Something I thought of long ago, and might start to get to be practical these days with smaller attendance at the Nationals: a 2-round Nationals. With preliminaries and finals. Finals would be limited to a relatively small number of skiers to make it practical. And, Finals for each event would typically happen right after the finish of the prelims. Would take some good planning to determine how many in a Finals. In events like W10, with very few entries, maybe no finals if there were only X in the prelims. Not EZ to do and to please everyone. Certainly, for larger events, where the conditions can vary significantly over the time, a Finals would be fairer, happening over a short span. For some of the "feature" events, such as Open, Masters, and maybe others, the Finals might be packed into another highlight day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ lpskier Posted October 15, 2016 Baller_ Share Posted October 15, 2016 WPB voted no. Could be back in Chicago. Lpskier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Edbrazil Posted October 16, 2016 Baller Share Posted October 16, 2016 Chicago? Hmmm...maybe go back to the Navy Pier site where the US Open was held one year! Then, there's always the site in DesPlaines, where we went Tour-ing in 1992--1994. Caution: not serious suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ToddL Posted October 16, 2016 Baller Share Posted October 16, 2016 The travel problem is what it is. I am curious for those who don't go because it's 1 round... what if the tournament entry fee was more affordable for that 1 round? Would you go then? What would you pay to ski 1 rd at nationals? $30? $50? Multi-round tournaments usually end up around those number per round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skidawg Posted October 17, 2016 Baller Share Posted October 17, 2016 Cypress please step up!!!!! Best crew around- the whole SCR can step up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted October 17, 2016 Administrators Share Posted October 17, 2016 @ToddL i don't have the energy to give you a triple panda tonight but entry fees are the smallest expense for a skier at Nationals Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Roger Posted October 17, 2016 Baller Share Posted October 17, 2016 @Toddl - What @Horton said. The entry fee isn't a big deal. It's the taking multiple days off from work and the expense of travel twice since we are forced to go to Regionals. If Nationals happens to be in Chicago next year, I would have to travel to Alabama most likely on work days and then Chicago. Even when we have Nationals here at Okeeheelee, I usually take 3 or 4 days off work to help with the tournament and would still have to travel to another state most likely for Regionals. Since I've skied Regionals and Nationals a few times, it's not important enough to me anymore to spend that kind of time and money. When we last hosted Nationals, I took time from work to help with driving for practice and whatever else needed to be done, but did not ski the tournament since I would have had to take additional time and spend additional money to go to Regionals. Allow me to pay for Regionals but not attend and I will consider Nationals again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ToddL Posted October 17, 2016 Baller Share Posted October 17, 2016 @Horton, @Roger, yeah, I get that. That's why I said the travel problem is what it is... Travel and the time off from work is a given for a National event. End of story. So, if we accept that travel and time of is a given, then solutions need to look at other aspects, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterSkier12 Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 Roger's correct, entry fee not a big deal unless you, your wife and 3-4 kids ski.. And depending where Nat'ls are it can b a great trip! Time off work is the big negative Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller John Brooks Posted October 18, 2016 Baller Share Posted October 18, 2016 @Roger Are you suggesting, as an incentive for a site to host Nationals, that club members from the host site be exempt from Regionals? If you are, I think that is worth suggesting. I believe that any incentive we can provide to a club to host Nationals, probably Regionals as well, that something like this makes sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Roger Posted October 18, 2016 Baller Share Posted October 18, 2016 @John Brooks - That is something we have discussed with them in the past, but I don't believe we ever got anywhere with it (though I like the idea). My position is simply that if you're qualified for Nationals, you should not be required to go to Regionals. If Regionals revenue loss is an issue, I would not have a problem sending the entry fee while not being forced to attend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller klindy Posted October 18, 2016 Baller Share Posted October 18, 2016 @Roger I understand and agree conceptually with the idea however we need to remember that for a large number of skiers the Regionals IS the big tournament of the year. Having a big part of the top tier skiers not attend really sucks the competitive vibe out of the weekend. Historically I've typically been able to qualify for Nationals in Slalom and/or Tricks but jump has always been a challenge. This year is my 40th year posting a score in a tournament scorebook and I've only competed in all three events once. And I had to actually out score others for the opportunity. For me it was a very, very big deal. It wouldn't have had nearly as big of an impact if a lot of the "level 8 and above" skiers weren't there. So while I get where you're coming from and if I was just a single event skier with consistent ability to qualify for Nationals I'd be 100% on board. But since I have zero shot at placing at Nationals, that Regionals medal means a lot. Remember the little people ... :smile: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller LeonL Posted October 18, 2016 Baller Share Posted October 18, 2016 Rehashing something someone said about one round brings out the unknown. ie. two or three rounds the best skier is going to win. One round and a lesser seeded guy might just sneak in a placement. Regionals is a big deal for me as I stand zero chance of placement at Nationals, even though I'm one of the guys I mentioned earlier. I won Regionals this year because the top two seeds just had a bad day. Ain't gonna happen at Nationals, I'm just too far down the seeding list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ The_MS Posted October 18, 2016 Baller_ Share Posted October 18, 2016 Why have Regionals take place if everyone stays home? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beastmode Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 There is no solution that will make is perfect for everyone. I qualified for Nationals for the first time this year and could not afford to make the trip. It is just the cost of travel, Lodging and Food for most people. Then if you add the whole family it can be very expensive. I think we could double the cost of entry fee for Nationals to help the LOC with expenses. I have an idea for making it worth while for non Qualified skiers to come watch and interact with all the vendors. College Baseball World Series is in Omaha every year and they have 3 to 4 full youth Select baseball tournaments going on during the College World Series. My stepson played select traveling baseball from 9u thru 18u and played on teams that went to these tournaments. Were talking several hundred teams each 4 day youth tournament. each player had parents and/or families all going to the College World Series games while they are not playing. It is the best use of marketing and promoting I have ever seen. CWS and the Omaha area figured out a way to have thousands of baseball loving fans there for a great local tournament and have the CWS games sold out every game. We could use this example and have a few C tournaments at a near by location running the same time as Nationals. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller MillerTime38 Posted October 18, 2016 Baller Share Posted October 18, 2016 @Klindy I think a lot of level 8 or 9 skiers would still attend if the tournament was local to them. Who wants to pay $150 and not ski at all. Probably not a lot of people. This just gives skiers who have to take several days to travel an option. Perhaps you could put a mileage limit that would allow skiers outside lets say 200 miles an option to just pay there fees and not attend? Just an idea, but I do think the current rules are causing skiers to not attend nationals that would otherwise if there was an option One year I traveled 7 hours to regionals because I "Had to" and I was the only M2 skier to show up....how much sense does that make. By the way I missed my gates on my opener but the judges must have been napping because they called it 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller unksskis Posted October 18, 2016 Baller Share Posted October 18, 2016 I would think the level 8 or 9 not attending would increase the competition at the Regional competition "level", which would be appropriate, as well as give more opportunity for them to qualify for Nationals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jimbrake Posted October 18, 2016 Baller Share Posted October 18, 2016 @MillerTime38 - that's funny about your missed gate. What a shame about the M2 numbers of the past few years and that a tournament like your regionals would have one lone entry. I could get way off subject on the affect that wakeboarding (and more recently wakesurfing and the ever popular tubing) have had on the younger men's divisions. But what I wanted to say was "7 hours?". Son that ain't nuthin'. Try 24 on the bus to miss my opener 'cause I "had to go". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Mateo_Vargas Posted October 18, 2016 Baller Share Posted October 18, 2016 I love dirty dog story @jimbrake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ lpskier Posted October 19, 2016 Baller_ Share Posted October 19, 2016 My theory is that numbers are down because baby boomers are breaking down and dropping out. Lpskier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller teammalibu Posted October 19, 2016 Baller Share Posted October 19, 2016 @MillerTime38 did you make the podium?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterSkier12 Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 John is correct, great meeting u @ Divorce Lake! Brian, Cheryl and Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Roger Posted November 11, 2016 Baller Share Posted November 11, 2016 After thinking about this some more... If you want me to attend Nationals, drop Regionals and make States the mandatory qualifying tournament. Nearly everyone should be able to drive to States (I know some States are large, for example if States were in Tallahassee, it would be a 5.5hr drive from West Palm for me). Just another idea for the pot... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jcamp Posted November 11, 2016 Baller Share Posted November 11, 2016 The "qualify for Nationals at states" would be great for me since I'm the only skier in my age division in the whole state. So I'd qualify, while about 30 skiers better than me from Florida would not. That doesn't make sense at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Roger Posted November 11, 2016 Baller Share Posted November 11, 2016 I'm sure the 30 skiers you speak of are high enough on the ranking list to be qualified already... I'm already qualified to ski Nationals on the ranking list, so if I have to attend a mandatory tournament first, I'd rather it be States than Regionals which can be more than 1000 miles away for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller klindy Posted November 11, 2016 Baller Share Posted November 11, 2016 @Roger many states don't have a state tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ntx Posted November 11, 2016 Baller Share Posted November 11, 2016 @Roger some states dont put any value on states. Until this year, in Texas, it was just another class C tournament. Sites in Dallas and Houston, held tournaments the same weekend that a site in Austin held a tournament that they called "Texas State Championship" It held no value. There was a attempt to change that last year. We will see how it all works out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jcamp Posted November 11, 2016 Baller Share Posted November 11, 2016 FWIW, my state had their first state championships this year. It's after nationals and doesn't have tricks or jumping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller LeonL Posted November 12, 2016 Baller Share Posted November 12, 2016 I'm with @Roger , however I had no idea that some states didn't do a state championships. I understood that @Roger suggested using states as a mandatory qualifier. Not that your performance at state qualifies you, just attendance is required. His scenario would only apply to those already qualified for Nationals, I think. In the Southern region division winners at state are qualified for regionals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterSkier12 Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 If you've qualified for Nats, why not make it a choice? Either ski @ your State or Regional tourneys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller LeonL Posted November 19, 2016 Baller Share Posted November 19, 2016 Seeing as how it's now close to December, it getting pretty far along in making a decision about where or if the the Nationals are going to be held. I know you can sanction a tournament in 10 minutes online, but all the other preliminary work that needs to be done, this seems to be a little late. If no one submits a bid, what happens? Website says. "Bids close December 1 for 2017 Nationals". Does this mean they have bids? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Kelvin Posted November 19, 2016 Author Baller Share Posted November 19, 2016 Its my understanding there are several sites considering placing a bid. We will know for sure December 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted November 19, 2016 Administrators Share Posted November 19, 2016 I have heard the same thing Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Drago Posted December 12, 2016 Baller Share Posted December 12, 2016 Any new news on Nationals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Milford Posted December 12, 2016 Baller Share Posted December 12, 2016 San Marcos, TX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted December 12, 2016 Administrators Share Posted December 12, 2016 Rumor i hear is same as @Milford San Marcos River Ranch Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skidawg Posted December 12, 2016 Baller Share Posted December 12, 2016 Everything's bigger in TEXAS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ lpskier Posted December 13, 2016 Baller_ Share Posted December 13, 2016 I hear Princeton Lakes. Lpskier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted December 13, 2016 Administrators Share Posted December 13, 2016 @lpskier that rumors is like 3 days old. That's like a hundred years in normal time Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Milford Posted December 13, 2016 Baller Share Posted December 13, 2016 My info came from a very reliable source with a vested interest in the event. San Marcos River Ranch. Looking forward to a great event! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ lpskier Posted December 13, 2016 Baller_ Share Posted December 13, 2016 @horton Yes, I know. I posted it here like three days ago. SMRR rumor is even older, although @Milford 's post this evening adds an additional layer of intrigue. I don't care either way; I'm just psyched to head to Texas. I missed 2014, so I kind of felt ripped off. Lpskier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Kelvin Posted December 13, 2016 Author Baller Share Posted December 13, 2016 My understanding is there were at least 2 and maybe 3 bids this year. That is good for the sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Roger Posted December 13, 2016 Baller Share Posted December 13, 2016 If they have accepted a bid, why isn't the tournament listed on their site in the Major Events list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller usaski1 Posted December 13, 2016 Baller Share Posted December 13, 2016 Oh yeah!! SMRR super short drive, no hotel, yeah! (Princeton would have been cool too though) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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