Is there a Zero Off Easter egg?

[Dirt]

Not yet. Thanks for asking.

It has been a while since I harassed you.

[Ralph Lee]

Just tried it. I was definitely able to finish my turns smoother

[ToddL]

I am not certain that adding a "trick mode" for slalom will grow the sport. Those who are interested in this potential speed control mode are already "in" the sport. Rather, it might stop decline which would be better than nothing. Maybe it will allow people to see a bump in scores which makes people happy. Happy people keep doing what makes them happy.

[MISkier]

@ToddL, some left the sport when Zero Off emerged. They preferred PerfectPass. If this new setting bridges that gap at all, it is possible the target is to return that group to the tournament scene.

[ToddL]

@MISkier - yeah I had that same thought. However, I recall the mass exit was more about personally owned PP boats and the inability to train with ZO. I think it was said that Trick Mode is still different than PP, I think the gates are part of that difference. Anyways, maybe if Trick mode is similar enough to feel more familiar, they might return. If it is still different enough, then their original reason for leaving is still applicable.

[Ralph Lee]

Give me A5+ and I'm the happiest man in the world! Skiing trick mode for the 2nd day in a row, my turns feel identical to PP, but I'm still not getting that slalom switch boost I want

[Bruce_Butterfield]

I tried trick mode for the second time today. The biggest difference I noticed was that I could complete the turn and start leaning BEFORE the throttle hit me, then the throttle was off as soon as I stopped leaning and I was early. With normal ZO I have to scramble to get in pulling position immediately when completing the turn or the boat will be going down the course without me. The turn in for the gate was also much smoother and I could get ski turned and underneath me before the throttle hit.

 

Interesting comment from my driver was that it sounded like there was a (jump) switch on the rope.

 

I struggled with ZO from day 1 and I'm ready for the new mode.

[Ralph Lee]

@Bruce_Butterfield

Well said! I've been using B3 trick mode quite a bit and my angle out of the buoy is much better and easier to achieve then behind ZO

[UWSkier]

We're mostly free skiers with ZO and it's taken me 3 years to finally start skiing well with ZO. I'm over 250 lbs and have a considerably higher than average skeletal muscle mass. Skiing with ZO has taught me lots of good things IMO. I'm a far more efficient skier than I used to be. I used to rely on my size to make things work for me.

 

That said, I'm going to try trick mode someday soon. Sounds like it might be the ticket... either to better skiing or spectacular OTFs...

[mlange]

Any updates on this getting into the next revision?

 

I gave it a shot for the first time today behind a 6.0 TXi expecting maybe a slightly noticeable difference and.... wow. Blown away by how different (and better) it feels.

[Horton]

@mlange there are a few skiers testing a version of Slalom with the magic of Trick Mode added in. This project is not forgotten but it is moving slowly.

[sbink]

It is good to hear that there is some forward movement on a ZO

setting for trick mode slalom.Any new updates would be appreciated.

Maybe Bruce will get his wish for the new mode in the not too distant future.

 

 

[mlange]

Thanks for the update!

[Jski]

I will be trying trick mode more this weekend. Took a windy, sun blinding (could only see one direction) yesterday & I am really encouraged. 6'2" 240 34mph running 32off & 1/2 way thru 35 behind my 13 RLX. Being the only 0 boat that skis regularly on our lake it has been a little challenging, I have tried just about every setting & after watching & seeing the graph on the 0 presentation B1 (the most symmetrical of all settings) has been the best to try to match my buddies Stargazer boats pull. A side note is been a PP user for years until 14, had my PB in 13 & took 3 years to get back to it behind zero off.

[sbink]

Horton-any more recent news on this?

[MattP]

@Horton alright another winter has come and gone. Has this project made any headway? Is this a pipe dream or is it still in a pipeline someplace?

[Horton]

I am not at liberty to talk about this project at the moment

[whitecaps]

It seems that ZO is afraid that any changes made appear to be done only to emulate the pull of PP, thus as far as ZO is concerned its too much like PP. Sooo... in ZOffs mind, the PP owners would have less desire to "upgrade" to a ZO boat and then negatively affecting sales. Also it seems possible that pressure from manufacturers placed on ZO has stalled this project. It seems obvious that most everyone loves this trick mode pull for slalom yet ZO is not willing to make it happen. They are hoping we all just forget it and accept a pull that is not as nice as PP Z-box.

[Dirt]

I don't believe it is Zero Off resisting this change. USAWS does not seem motivated to do it. They changed their name. They changed the membership structure. They are most likely going to change a bunch of rules to allow the new Nautique to have moveable gate thingies and 25%/75% trick ballast, etc... If they wanted to get this done for the members they could and would. The tail many times wags the dog.

 

I blame this whole debacle on MS, Horton, Skidawg, Thager and Scoke.

[bishop8950]

@dirt someone here will know, but I thought if ZO had new settings, and the boat was tested with those settings and passes, it would be approved. That said, do USAWS approve ZO revisions at all? We don’t retest boats if there is a ZO rev do we? I thought we have had several revs of ZO that did not require any testing or USAWS approval but I am not sure of the process

[Dirt]

@bishop8950 That is a good question. I am not sure. My point is that where there's a will, there's a way. Everyone keeps pointing fingers at everyone else instead of just getting it done. It should not take years to make this minor and simple change.

 

Nautique built a beautiful new boat that in a few ways does not comply with the rules. You can bet they will (and should) change them to allow the boat to be used. It will not take two plus years like this ZO revision that a large number of members want.

[bishop8950]

@dirt my point is I don’t think USAWS is to blame for any time to market for ZO updates.

[Dirt]

I understand what you are saying but if they wanted it done, it would be done.

 

We have been trying to get a certain thing changed at work for more than three years. Insert excuses why it isn't being done here ______. New boss shows up. Two days later, problem solved.

[MattP]

@bishop8950 ZO updates are up to each manufacture. USAWS & ZO don't regulate them I believe.

[bishop8950]

Dirt, who is “they”? I think it’s the tiny team of people that work on ZO settings and then have to work with Econtrols to get it through.

[Dirt]

To be clear, I am not bashing USAWS and I don't really care that much about this issue. C2 works great for me. I love this sport and the people in it. I respect the leadership and thank them for their unpaid tireless dedication.

 

I am just pointing out that it can be done if the right people decide to do it. They could make changes to the procedure and pay for it if need be.

[eleeski]

@Dirt "and pay for it if need be"??? Just because you guys are slaloming in trick mode doesn't mean I have to foot the bill!

 

It is nice to just adjust the speed after a nice trick set if I want to slalom.

 

Eric

[Dirt]

@eleeski I see how it is. You are neglecting your slalom and declaring yourself a trick specialist. Feel free to trick in slalom or jump mode whenever you want.

 

I don't know why anyone would listen to me anyway. I took over for Muhlitner as the worst skier in the world. My average is less than 4 buoys.

[Not_The_Pug]

I don't really want to get into a debate with @dirt but we were told at the drivers clinic that a new Rev was in the works and should be released soon. Only change is to the "+" settings in slalom to mimic the gains set in the trick program. I don't have any additional details.

[Bruce_Butterfield]

The big problem is that there is no one who is really responsible.

- Ecocontrols doesn’t really care about tweaks to the algorithms. Their business model is not impacted by improvements to the algorithms.

- Usawaterski doesn’t care (IMO they should be a primary driver) as they have pushed any responsibility to the boat manufacturers. Awsa was a primary driver in the early days of speed control but no longer want to deal with it.

-The boat manufacturers don’t care - they won’t sell any more boats with a better speed control (or at least that’s the mindset)

 

All we have is a bunch of slalom skiers who want to make improvements to the sport and there isn’t any organization or person with the ability to effect change that gives a rat’s ass.

 

Yes Horton, I’m just a grumpy old man

[The_MS]

I am behind this whole mess?

[Horton]

There is a official or semi-official agreement between the boat manufacturers to try to keep the actual pull of all the boats as similar as possible. This means that all 3 boat companies must agree and then an engineer at ZO must make the official changes. In short there are a bunch if moving parts to get a change implemented. It's likely very similar to herding cats.

 

It is @ms fault

[Jody_Seal]

@Horton,

You go on believing that!

 

 

 

[Horton]

My mistake. it is all @Jody_Seal's fault

[DaveD]

I'm sure glad I suck enough not to be able to tell the difference.

[The_MS]

I hate to blame it on my all time idol and GOAT Slalom skier but this is all Andy's fault. He invented it and now there is nobody stepping up and taking over.

[Horton]

@ms I think that is more than little bit misinformed. I personally disagree with some of the programing choices that Andy made but the current system works pretty darn well and I understand that that Nate Smith has filled Andy's role.

[The_MS]

No one skis like Andy and no one skis like Nate. Me and you need to get invited to the testing so we can get a setting for the average skier on the menu

[Horton]

Ok @ms stay tuned for a couple of weeks. There could be news. I'm not saying that I'm going to ski with the not yet publish next version of ZO today but I could.

[The_MS]

B) B)

[MickeyThompson]

Skied today in trick setting for the first time. Wow what a difference. Boat is there when you load and off when you unload.

I ski a limited amount of tournaments so this might be my new setting.

[Horton]

bump

[BG1]

I’ve skied with the new Zero Off software loaded and on the Plus setting the last two sets. For me it’s the best pull since the original KX/PX switch from Perfect Pass and the Original Zero Off, both of which were great. Not sure if the Plus setting is as good as those were because that’s about 18 and 10 years ago so too much water under the ski. Once they went away for the KX/PX on Perfect Pass and added ABC/123 to Zero Off I didn’t like either one.

[skiinxs]

I have been skiing it for a couple weeks now and love it! (A1+). I am finding it difficult to ski the old version in tournaments now. The boat isn't playing catch-up and taking rope away from you in the turns, and doesn't come back and try to catch back up after you load after the ball. The first set I tried it I was grinning ear to ear when I got back to the dock. When asked why I was grinning, I commented that I didn't feel like I had just gone ten rounds with Rocky, which is what I usually feel like after a long slalom set on ZO. In my opinion it is the best pull ZO has ever had (I am a big guy). When driving big guys on plus with version S, the boat throttles a LOT. But skiing with it, you never feel it. I think it is in perfect sync with the skier, not trying to catch up all the time.

 

I took a set on A1 (no plus) last night starting to get ready for regionals, as the non-Nautiques will have version R. After the set I felt like I had gone 10 rounds with Rocky.

[acmx]

@skiinxs do you know if the new + software keeps the higher gate approch speed like the old version?

[dbutcher]

@skiinxs Is Version S going to be used in the Regionals/Nationals? I think the answer is yes, but I'm not sure.

[skierjp]

All Nautiques will have 100S

[Kelvin]

@dbutcher the Nautiques in the SCR will be running S and will be available for practice on Thursday.

[Drago]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but v. Easter egg cannot be used until the completion of Nationals (!)

[BrennanKMN]

I am on a 5.7L dual puck Rev R 196 Nautique. I tried trick mode the other day and it was some of the easiest passes I've run in a while.

My question, how much different will it be when I change to single puck and Rev S? Is my old system in trick mode comparable to a new system in trick mode? Because this might be the final kick in the pants I need to upgrade to a single puck.